First Stratified S-OTS+ Tune

[Jadcock]

So when I first placed my order for a stratified S-OTS+ map, I described my power upgrades as follows,
- Corksport Stage II Intake with frp airbox
- Corksport Internals
- Corksport 3" Cat-back

I included in my tuning form that I have the stock DP and testpipe to make sure there weren't any misunderstandings.

After finding the map in my spam box two days later (damn you google!) I found a stage 2 +93oct map. Da fuq?

So after emailing stratified back, they insisted that since I had the 3" cat-back, I had relieved the back pressure of at least one cat. This went against all my understanding of "going stage 2 without a DP you'll have a bad time," and I informed stratified about that understanding.

Stratified ensured me that the stage 2 tune wasn't as dialed up as an "actual" stage 2 with a DP and that I should give it a shot.

After doing some small pulls to make sure everything wasn't going to go south right off the bat I finally let-er rip in 4th
Holly titties it pulls....

I logged it too.

My only concern is that the extra boost without an actual cat missing will severely hurt the life of my turbo.

So based on this interesting situation of running at 20psi without a DP, how does this log look?

Thanks MSF!

[JgamB]

The Pu muffler is probably a greater source of back pressure than either cat, so I'd imagine it's comparable. Your 93oct isn't faring very well - where do you get your fuel?

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by JgamB The Pu muffler is probably a greater source of back pressure than either cat, so I'd imagine it's comparable. Your 93oct isn't faring very well - where do you get your fuel?

I swear by the Shell station and get 93 oct. V-powah

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Jadcock I swear by the Shell station and get 93 oct. V-powah

Typically good fuel, but that's not much timing for the boost and BATs. OEM plugs in the car, and if so, how many miles on them?

[[R]usty]

hmmm lots of power still to be had. Where you on a flat road?

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by JgamB Typically good fuel, but that's not much timing for the boost and BATs. OEM plugs in the car, and if so, how many miles on them?

True I see that. Doesn't the advance usually go to around more than 30° in the 3K rpm range?

Conditions weren't the best. Although it was about 70 outside it was humid as hell and spitting rain.

Yes the plugs are OEM and there are 20K miles on the car. Original plugs. Original temp

Originally Posted by rustysurfsa hmmm lots of power still to be had. Where you on a flat road?

Truth. However I can't bring myself to install a DP for some reason. My only power mod left to be had is an intercooler really. :/

and no I forgot to point out that at about 3/4 the way through I was going up a long hill

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Jadcock True I see that. Doesn't the advance usually go to around more than 30° in the 3K rpm range? Conditions weren't the best. Although it was about 70 outside it was humid as hell and spitting rain. Yes the plugs are OEM and there are 20K miles on the car. Original plugs. Original temp

WUT no... your spark advance would typically be more of a taper from 0 advance at ~3.2k tip in to about 12-14* car and fuel dependent at 6K rpm.

The knock you're getting isn't *bad* per se, but it's enough to take a few more logs and see if it was an anomaly. After that you'll get the traditional answer of ensure your plugs are in good condition and gapped to .026, and drop a gallon of Ethanol or two bottles of HEET in the fuel tank to validate the KR.

Are you at high altitude?

[Lex]

The catback does offer enough of a restriction that with an aftermarket one and the HPFP you qualified for the stage2 93. The tune has you right on the edge of knock which is a good place to be performance wise.

Take a few more WOT logs to see how KR looks. If you stay under 1* then this is a good place. If you are constantly above 1.0 then try a different fuel source.

There isn't anything alarming in the log otherwise.

How does the car drive?

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by Lex The catback does offer enough of a restriction that with an aftermarket one and the HPFP you qualified for the stage2 93. The tune has you right on the edge of knock which is a good place to be performance wise. Take a few more WOT logs to see how KR looks. If you stay under 1* then this is a good place. If you are constantly above 1.0 then try a different fuel source. There isn't anything alarming in the log otherwise. How does the car drive?

Understood.

I did just flash the map and WOT after a few miles so it still has some learning to do hopefully it will settle out.

It's also very damp and misting rain here so air quality isn't the best.

Would a bottle of octane boost per tank help?

Car drives amazing. Doesn't hesitate when I leave it in second gear over speed bumps and casually accel away. When cruising around 2.5K rpm the boost builds right away and hauls ass the same amount all the way to red line. Very impressed with the tune

Originally Posted by JgamB WUT no... your spark advance would typically be more of a taper from 0 advance at ~3.2k tip in to about 12-14* car and a fuel dependent at 6K rpm. The knock you're getting isn't *bad* per se, but it's enough to take a few more logs and see if it was an anomaly. After that you'll get the traditional answer of ensure your plugs are in good condition and gapped to .026, and drop a gallon of Ethanol or two bottles of HEET in the fuel tank to validate the KR. Are you at high altitude?

My alt. is 256ft. so no lol.

Would one step colder plugs be needed or maybe I should just replace the stock ones because they're probably shitted up from the 15K miles of a rich stock tune

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by Jadcock My alt. is 256ft. so no lol. Would one step colder plugs be needed or maybe I should just replace the stock ones because they're probably shitted up from the 15K miles of a rich stock tune

Reason I asked is because your car is holding boost and keeping BATs down exceptionally well for stock TMIC, but the knock was induced at lower RPM and lesser flow.

Stock heat range plugs have done me just fine all the way up to 93 tuning my BNR, not something you need imo.

I'll get out of the thread - Lex is here to take care of you and his advice > my advice

[Lex]

Originally Posted by JgamB Reason I asked is because your car is holding boost and keeping BATs down exceptionally well for stock TMIC, but the knock was induced at lower RPM and lesser flow. Stock heat range plugs have done me just fine all the way up to 93 tuning my BNR, not something you need imo. I'll get out of the thread - Lex is here to take care of you and his advice > my advice

Thanks for chiming in with advice. Very much appreciated.

The stock plugs are fine until you need a new set due to wear. At that time go one step colder. If you start to misfire then gap them down to 0.026".

Otherwise get another log or 2 when you get a chance. When you have fewer flowing parts it is often easier to hold boost pressure higher. This is because the stock components do not flow as well so the turbo can keep boost high deeper into the rev range. As you free up the flow the compressor just can't maintain the same pressure level but power does go up since flow goes up.


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[Hargarbl]

Originally Posted by Lex This is because the stock components do not flow as well so the turbo can keep boost high deeper into the rev range. As you free up the flow the compressor just can't maintain the same pressure level but power does go up since flow goes up. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So just so I can try to comprehend what you said a little better.

More flow = less boost = more power

Is this correct? It makes sense, just sounds weird.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Hargarbl So just so I can try to comprehend what you said a little better. More flow = less boost = more power Is this correct? It makes sense, just sounds weird.

The turbo builds boost (pressure) against a restriction. That restriction is the motor. We drive the k04 in theses cars as hard as they will go in the top end in most situations. So as you open up the flow the restriction goes down and the turbo that was driven at maximum wgdc is no longer able to build the same pressure since it can't flow any more from the compressor/can't be spun faster. It is simply running down the right edge of the compressor map.

So you will see a drop in boost pressure. However removing those restrictions reduces pumping losses and improves efficiency. So overall you make more power in spite of the drop in boost pressure.

This phenomenon is highlighted by the k04 being maxed out in terms of flow in the top end.

[it's toasted]

I ran around with the S-OTS+ stage 2 for a month or two with no problems. Apparently, the CS TMIC provided just enough cooling and derestricted airflow to get away with it.

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by Lex Thanks for chiming in with advice. Very much appreciated. The stock plugs are fine until you need a new set due to wear. At that time go one step colder. If you start to misfire then gap them down to 0.026". Otherwise get another log or 2 when you get a chance. When you have fewer flowing parts it is often easier to hold boost pressure higher. This is because the stock components do not flow as well so the turbo can keep boost high deeper into the rev range. As you free up the flow the compressor just can't maintain the same pressure level but power does go up since flow goes up. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Is this advice directed towards me for my next plugs?

I haven't had a chance to get a full wot log but after driving to Baltimore and back this weekend driving it like I stole it the highest KR value I saw was .51°
Also the LTFT's seam to have settled in to 4-5+/- down from 8+/-.

The climate has been perfect as well.
Intake temp at filter is 73 when ambient is 71 with BAT's in the 98° area cruising.

ALSO I FINALLY DID THE DONATION MOD!

Now how do I sell my old SRI?

P.s. - In response to the "more restriction = higher boost" idea, It's funny when my subi friends get excited about hitting 18psi when they move the pedal just a bit. IT'S BECAUSE THE THROTTLE BODY IS HARDLY OPEN SO IT HAS NOWHERE TO GO! .... right?

[Vansquish]

You need 150 posts to sell anything.

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by Vansquish You need 150 posts to sell anything.

Yea I literally just saw those rules. Good thing I actually READ them. I know 75% people don't
Damn well that sucks. That's the main reason I bought VIP because I was under the impression that I could offload this intake

[Jadcock]

Here's another 4th gear WOT log with sunoco 93 this time. No octane booster
This log shows KR in the 1.2 range but the pull prior that I didn't log hit 1.76KR that I saw on the AP max/min monitor :/
Still below 2° though so I'm happy.

Plugged the log into virtual dyno and got some surprising results...

[it's toasted]

AFR's are a tad on the lean side it seems...

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by it's toasted AFR's are a tad on the lean side it seems...

hmm what should I do I'd prefer not to blow it up. Full custom?

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[it's toasted]

I'm no expert, BUT you should either download one of the tuning guides if you want to get your feet wet in ATR, or get a full custom. I'm still waiting on my next map from Freek. it's been like 3 days... the weekend wait was a killer. lol

[Vansquish]

Originally Posted by it's toasted AFR's are a tad on the lean side it seems...

You must be looking at the wrong line. The AFRs in that VD show between 11.8ish and 11.2ish. That's just about perfect.

The only thing that's wrong with that VD is that it's a "DynoJet" one instead of using the, more or less, universally accepted custom CF of 1.01.

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by it's toasted I'm no expert, BUT you should either download one of the tuning guides if you want to get your feet wet in ATR, or get a full custom. I'm still waiting on my next map from Freek. it's been like 3 days... the weekend wait was a killer. lol

hmm.. my original idea was to go freek but for $40 ots+ I figured I'd give it a shot. Sadly even with the $40 ots credit for a full custom with stratified freek is still cheaper than stratified.

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Originally Posted by Vansquish You must be looking at the wrong line. The AFRs in that VD show between 11.8ish and 11.2ish. That's just about perfect. The only thing that's wrong with that VD is that it's a "DynoJet" one instead of using the, more or less, universally accepted custom CF of 1.01.

Thanks for clarifying. I knew it was tapping 11.8 max afr and I was pretty sure that was pretty damn close to ideal at wot.
I shall stick with stratified ots+.
Good now I can use the sticker I ordered last night

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[Jadcock]

What is this custom CF 1.01 deal?

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[it's toasted]

Originally Posted by Jadcock What is this custom CF 1.01 deal? Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

CF = correction factor.

just a formula VD uses to spit out a HP/TQ #.

[Jadcock]

Okay ill try that tonight and report back

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[Mike@Stratified]

Originally Posted by it's toasted word. I looked through the log and saw a few cells between 10.7-11.0. figured that was lean, but I guess it isn't sustained. EDIT: re-preface by saying im NOT a tuner... yet. lol I'm still learning day by day.

The smaller the number, the richer the mixture. Larger is leaner.

[it's toasted]

Originally Posted by Mike@Stratified The smaller the number, the richer the mixture. Larger is leaner.

wow, I know that... facepalm. how i didn't receive a groan for that is beyond me. the Brownie shines bright today.

deleted that post. makes me sick knowing I got that confused.

[Jadcock]

This seams more like it
Same log CF @ 1.01

[Jadcock]

So after a little road race tonight I saw a KR of 3.61° pop up.
I wasn't logging so I have no idea where it was or what gear it was in.
I worked my way from 2K rpm in 3rd gear to the beginning of 5th gear.
Could this be shift noise from slamming it into gear?

[darthxar]

Originally Posted by Jadcock So after a little road race tonight I saw a KR of 3.61° pop up. I wasn't logging so I have no idea where it was or what gear it was in. I worked my way from 2K rpm in 3rd gear to the beginning of 5th gear. Could this be shift noise from slamming it into gear?

I get the occasional KR up to 6 on the min/max sometimes but I never log more than 1 degree at WOT. when I log aggressive gear to gear pulls I can see 3 to 4 degrees max, but it always happens in the shifting transition.

Once I got distracted and nearly stalled while leaving a stop sign and the AP showed a max of 8 that was obviously noise from stuttering on the clutch.

Personally as long as WOT is fine, I don't worry about the odd high reading on the min/max display. I just take a WOT log now and again to make sure things are cool under power when it counts. the rest I write off to noise.

Double tappin' the Moto

[Hargarbl]

Originally Posted by Jadcock So after a little road race tonight I saw a KR of 3.61° pop up. I wasn't logging so I have no idea where it was or what gear it was in. I worked my way from 2K rpm in 3rd gear to the beginning of 5th gear. Could this be shift noise from slamming it into gear?

Yeah most likely just shift noise, or you caught a bump right. But probably not actually knock. I get these on occasion, usually after a more that normally aggressive shift.

[Jadcock]

Originally Posted by darthxar I get the occasional KR up to 6 on the min/max sometimes but I never log more than 1 degree at WOT. when I log aggressive gear to gear pulls I can see 3 to 4 degrees max, but it always happens in the shifting transition. Once I got distracted and nearly stalled while leaving a stop sign and the AP showed a max of 8 that was obviously noise from stuttering on the clutch. Personally as long as WOT is fine, I don't worry about the odd high reading on the min/max display. I just take a WOT log now and again to make sure things are cool under power when it counts. the rest I write off to noise. Double tappin' the Moto

These are all such reassuring answers.
It shall be written off.

I love the way she drives the torque is nuts!

[Lex]

Get a couple of full gear wot logs. Post them here or send them in and I can have a quick look.

[Jadcock]

Full 4th gear? Or full all gears

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[nilashish]

I think Alex meant full 3rd or full 4th gear logs

[Jadcock]

Okay I'll do a couple for both

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[Snip]

at part throttle driving i also see knock sometimes around 3, but i noticed, íf it occured, it was at shifting, especially between 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear, so nothing to be really worried over.

I also believe if WOT logs are okay, you'll be okay.

After a map revision i usually take a WOT log from 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear, just to be sure no serious knock is showing up

[Jadcock]

Here is another 4th gear log.
I was sick for the past 4 days so I wasn't driving too much.

It's not looking too good from what I'm seeing, for this run lag was huge and I'm pretty sure the wastegate duty shows it.

I rarely wind out 4th gear on a weekly basis and 3rd and 2nd gear never show more than .6 KR so I'm not in dire need of a custom tune this minute.

The BAT's were pretty high at the start but my plan even before I took this log was to add the CS TMIC to the mix and a full custom tune from stratified and leave the car at that.

I'm hoping that stratified can make me more comfortable winding out any gear whenever I want and simply not worry about it

[Jadcock]

Any input?

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