Not hitting my target boost

[TheProYodler]

Alright, here's my problem: I'm running a stage 1 corksport/tih with the stock cdfp, but I'm not hitting my target boost (I'm on the latest firmware, and latest version of the map.) I usually max out at 14.5psi rarely, and hold at 12-13. I'm extremely new to tuning so I really have no idea what's going on, but I've done some looking around the forums, and if I have learned anything it's that I can use ATR to do stuff. Yeah!

I really want to peak boost at around 16.5-17psi, and hold at 1-2psi under that. Since 14.5psi is 12.1% off of 16.5, could I use ATR to raise the waste gate duty cycle by 12%? I can do a wide open throttle log if needed (3rd/rth gear.) I feel like I can just keep doing trial and error until I get the correct boost cycle that I want, thoughts?

This is my first post, so be gentle. I'm not ready for complete destruction yet.


EDIT: It is decently warm outside (mid 80's-low 90's) Elevation is roughly 300 feet.

Alright, I've posted my logs down below for everyone to take a look at.

[biggman026]

I don't know much (ie. hardly anything) about tuning with ATR. But, if you don't know that increasing wastegate functions to increase boost (other variables held constant), I wouldn't do anything with ATR. That software is pretty complex, it's like trying to use Photoshop when your experience with photo editing is limited to messing with brightness and contrast settings. You're going to hear this from multiple people, but having your car professionally tuned is singlehandedly the best money you'll spend on it. I'd recommend either having someone e-tune the car, or spend a few weeks reading the tuning how-to guides before making tiny incremental baby steps to see how your changes affect the car.

[TheProYodler]

Originally Posted by biggman026 I don't know much (ie. hardly anything) about tuning with ATR. But, if you don't know that increasing wastegate functions to increase boost (other variables held constant), I wouldn't do anything with ATR. That software is pretty complex, it's like trying to use Photoshop when your experience with photo editing is limited to messing with brightness and contrast settings. You're going to hear this from multiple people, but having your car professionally tuned is singlehandedly the best money you'll spend on it. I'd recommend either having someone e-tune the car, or spend a few weeks reading the tuning how-to guides before making tiny incremental baby steps to see how your changes affect the car.

Oh, no I get how tuning itself works (for the most part, I am short on terminology and what does what), I'm just new to it. The software looks pretty daunting, but nothing some internet/youtube guides can't fix. As for a pro tune, how much do those usually cost?

Edit: I would go to CP-E to have them tune the car since they're located just outside of DC.

[franz]

Search the forum for how to run a proper 3rd and 4th gear log and which parameters to monitor. Post the logs. No one will help you without logs.

[TheProYodler]

Originally Posted by franz Search the forum for how to run a proper 3rd and 4th gear log and which parameters to monitor. Post the logs. No one will help you without logs.

Posted my logs up on my first post.

[alexryan]

Theres a few problems:
1. Dont go wot before 2700, please. Its really a big no no with this motor. Some may argue its fine, but i still dont trust it.
2. Your "increasing WGDC by 12% because boost is off by 12%" idea is not correct. WGDC does not have a 1:1 relationship with boost. Its more of a trial and error kind of thing. After you do it a few times, youll get the idea.
3. You most likely have a boost leak. Just double check your clamps and do a boost leak test. If all is well, go ahead and increase duty cycle by 5% and see where that puts you.

[ArmanRus]

What do you mean holding 12-13? You are holding 15 PSI +- .5 perfectly fine. I don't know the boost targets for that particular map, but I believe Stage 1 OTS call for 16.5 +- 1.5 PSI, so you are golden in that aspect.

Also, please upgrade your fuel pump before you attempt to run more boost. Some cells under HPFP Act. Pressure are in the low 1600's already, it will only go down once you up the boost. It's cheap insurance so get it.

[chaser27]

Originally Posted by alexryan Theres a few problems: 1. Dont go wot before 2700, please. Its really a big no no with this motor. Some may argue its fine, but i still dont trust it. 2. Your "increasing WGDC by 12% because boost is off by 12%" idea is not correct. WGDC does not have a 1:1 relationship with boost. Its more of a trial and error kind of thing. After you do it a few times, youll get the idea. 3. You most likely have a boost leak. Just double check your clamps and do a boost leak test. If all is well, go ahead and increase duty cycle by 5% and see where that puts you.

I wouldn't trust it with an OTS tune that has 100% WGDC down low. With a tune you can limit the torque, so even in the off chance, you have too many drinks at the bar and need someone else to drive your car home and they feel like pinning it from 1k you'll be fine.

[TheProYodler]

Thanks for the replies everyone! Really helpful. An Autotech HPFP is on the list as my next mod, but being a college student I'm broke. Basically have enough money to pay for gas, insurance, and repairs. I checked to see if there were any leaks, but there didn't appear to be any (I just went around tightening bolts and checking joints--I'm too poor to afford a compressor to pressurize my system, so I'm hoping I got a leak closed if there was one.)

Down below I've attached the current WGDC table for my map.

So I should look at my logs to see when I'm making max boost, and then multiply those cells in ATR by a factor of 1.05, right?

Edit: I should note at this point, is adding 1.5-2psi max boost really going to make that much of a difference in power? Oh and while I'm doing this should I also do a WOT MAF CAL since I already have the log? I'm thinking I should aim for 11.6 air to fuel.

[ArmanRus]

No, ypu don't multiply by 1.05. You add 5% so that 40% will be 45%. Do those in the RPMs that you are not hitting your target boost.

[TheProYodler]

Originally Posted by ArmanRus No, ypu don't multiply by 1.05. You add 5% so that 40% will be 45%. Do those in the RPMs that you are not hitting your target boost.

Ah ok, so you're adding not multiplying, thanks for that.

[chaser27]

See replies in red.

Originally Posted by TheProYodler I'm too broke... yada yada yada A new engine cost a lot more than $350 HPFP internals So I should look at my logs to see when I'm making max boost, and then multiply those cells in ATR by a factor of 1.05, right? Your WGDC map is one of the many reasons I don't like the OTS maps. If you know how a waste gate actuator and EBCS work, you would understand this. Spring pressure alone is going to get you to ~9 psi IIRC on the K04. It isn't a direct 1:1 thing like AFR calculations or something. Edit: I should note at this point, is adding 1.5-2psi max boost really going to make that much of a difference in power? It could, depending on rpm, compressor efficiency, etc. More airflow, more fuel being burnt. Use spark advance, vvt, AFT, etc. to optimize how that fuel is being used. I'm getting the feeling you should NOT be doing this yourself until you've read a lot more. Not trying to be a dick, just trying to make sure you don't blow something up Oh and while I'm doing this should I also do a WOT MAF CAL since I already have the log? Get your MAF set up BEFORE trying to push for power. I'm thinking I should aim for 11.6 air to fuel. This is a normal target for our cars.

[TheProYodler]

Originally Posted by chaser27 See replies in red.

Thanks for this. I'm not planning on racing my car, so if I'm not going to 'feel' the power difference, then I don't really care about doing it. I have a tendency to just "chase numbers."

[TheProYodler]

UPDATE: So I increased my WGDC by 5 (in the cells where I should be producing max boost.) I'm now making 16.3-16.5 max psi and holding in the 15 psi range. I did two more 4th gear logs and I'll post them below.

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by TheProYodler Thanks for this. I'm not planning on racing my car, so if I'm not going to 'feel' the power difference, then I don't really care about doing it. I have a tendency to just "chase numbers."

You really should get internals ASAP if you are going to continue to try and push your car harder... Quite a few HPFP cells <1650, and 1 below 1600. You may be "broke" now, but you still have a car. Don't get internals, and you might not have a working car much longer either.

Not getting an upgraded part because you won't "feel" the difference is fucking dumb. You'll feel the difference when you blow your engine.

[TheProYodler]

Originally Posted by g00s3y You really should get internals ASAP if you are going to continue to try and push your car harder... Quite a few HPFP cells <1650, and 1 below 1600. You may be "broke" now, but you still have a car. Don't get internals, and you might not have a working car much longer either. Not getting an upgraded part because you won't "feel" the difference is fucking dumb. You'll feel the difference when you blow your engine.

Go back and re-read all of my posts. I already want new HPFP internals. Infact, they will be my next mod. Also, I said that if I'm not going to notice the difference of 1-3psi, then why do it if I'm going to risk my internals? I never said anything about not wanting to get a fuel pump.

[chaser27]

Originally Posted by TheProYodler Go back and re-read all of my posts. I already want new HPFP internals. Infact, they will be my next mod. Also, I said that if I'm not going to notice the difference of 1-3psi, then why do it if I'm going to risk my internals? I never said anything about not wanting to get a fuel pump.

Yes, but you should get internals BEFORE you start pushing more boost. More boost -> more air -> more fuel. Honestly I haven't looked at any of your logs, because there are too many damn people posting shit like this, but if you are already dropping FP, the last thing you should do is increase boost psi.

[TheProYodler]

Originally Posted by chaser27 Yes, but you should get internals BEFORE you start pushing more boost. More boost -> more air -> more fuel. Honestly I haven't looked at any of your logs, because there are too many damn people posting shit like this, but if you are already dropping FP, the last thing you should do is increase boost psi.

Yeah, it's a calculated risk I'm taking. No, I don't want to blow out my fuel pump. I'm only trying to boost up to what the stage 1 map was designed to deliver (16.5psi +/-1.5psi.) If I were to buy the Autotech fuel pump internals, would it be worth paying a shop to install it for me (called in for a price and they said $225 for labor?) I only ask this because the install does look pretty difficult, and messing it up would be pretty disastrous.

[chaser27]

Originally Posted by TheProYodler Yeah, it's a calculated risk I'm taking. No, I don't want to blow out my fuel pump. I'm only trying to boost up to what the stage 1 map was designed to deliver (16.5psi +/-1.5psi.) If I were to buy the Autotech fuel pump internals, would it be worth paying a shop to install it for me (called in for a price and they said $225 for labor?) I only ask this because the install does look pretty difficult, and messing it up would be pretty disastrous.

You should double check those calculations... $350 vs $6k. I had fuel pressure dropping with just an intake and a slightly aggressive tune.

[dsmguy]

You're not going to "blow out your fuel pump." You're going to "blow out your motor." People are only being harsh because there are always people on here zoom zoom boomin, and they don't want to see you be one of them.

[TheProYodler]

You know what, fuck it... I can live without a TV in my dorm. I'm buying these internals.

[chaser27]

Not sure where you are from, but get with your local Nator. Meet some cool people, hang out and I'm sure they can help you out with any questions you have in that install. Save more moniez.

[dsmguy]

Originally Posted by TheProYodler You know what, fuck it... I can live without a TV in my dorm. I'm buying these internals.

That's the spirit! You'll enjoy boost more than Teen Mom, I promise.

[TheProYodler]

UPDATE: Autotech HPFP internals have been ordered.

[chaser27]

Originally Posted by TheProYodler UPDATE: Autotech HPFP internals have been ordered.

I feel like I did my good deed for the day.

[ArmanRus]

You should have donated $25 and then bought the brand new ones in the for sale section for $300. Two birds with one stone.

Now you can run 20 PSI. That will definitely make a difference.

[Emew]

Btw the support you're getting right now is unbelievable. I took the long hard route of learning thanks to some gurus here or there and with a lot of recommendations. The nature of this forum is to rape your butthole, call you a brownie, get their dick more brown, and then leave the thread. The fact you're getting all this support with no backlash and hate is astonishing.

Listen to what they've said as a lot of them are dead on correct and as stated before, avoid increasing boost beyond OTS stage 1 until you get those internals installed. If you view the pre-reqs Cobb lists with the various maps you'll see that stage 2 comes with a 17.5 PSI target tapering to 16.5 and has a requirement of HPFP(CDFP) internals for the map. I know you're eager to make power but as others have stated, knowledge is key here, you should feel as though you're risking your motor with every uncertain change you make in ATR.