Guardian Angel VTA...how?

[iammike]

Just a curiosity I haven't worked out in the reading I've done.

If you are running a Guardian Angel and have your BOV set to VTA, how does the GA correct for this when you are still venting air that was already metered by the MAF?

I don't doubt that it works. I've seen the videos and seen the happy reviews. I'm more curious in how.

[Dmurray06]

It holds the piston type BPV shut at idle, or low load. Normally it'll leak like a whores pussy.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by Dmurray06 It holds the piston type BPV shut at idle, or low load. Normally it'll leak like a whores pussy.

I probably should have been more specific. That part I understood and I understand how the GA system holds the piston closed at those times.

I'm thinking more of the VTA at WOT shifts, for example. You're venting the already metered air...but the GA eliminates all the symptoms of doing just that.

[Dmurray06]

Not entirely. The VTA function of the GA only works on piston type BPV's, you can still use them on different style BOV/BPV but the VTA won't work.

It won't entirely fix the, rich after shift, that normally occurs when you car full VTA. For example, I have for forge BPV in full VTA, I backfire very rarely.

If what your trying to ask is will it fix the rich condition post shift. Not 100% no, but through tuning it will. I hope I answered your question.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by Dmurray06 Not entirely. The VTA function of the GA only works on piston type BPV's, you can still use them on different style BOV/BPV but the VTA won't work. It won't entirely fix the, rich after shift, that normally occurs when you car full VTA. For example, I have for forge BPV in full VTA, I backfire very rarely. If what your trying to ask is will it fix the rich condition post shift. Not 100% no, but through tuning it will. I hope I answered your question.

Pretty much yeah. I thought it somehow completely resolved that problem and I was wondering how.

[Dmurray06]

Originally Posted by iammike Pretty much yeah. I thought it somehow completely resolved that problem and I was wondering how.

Yea, like you said above. You are venting metered air, you'll run a little rich. But it's great I you want cheap rice. Paid $120 new for my forge, full rice. Lol

Ill tag @Lex; just incase I am feeding you bullshit, he knows his product the best and can better explain it I am sure.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by Dmurray06 Yea, like you said above. You are venting metered air, you'll run a little rich. But it's great I you want cheap rice. Paid $120 new for my forge, full rice. Lol

It was more of a curiosity thing for me. If I was going to buy the GA, which I seriously considered, it would be for the boost protection...but at the stage I'm at, running the boost I'm running, I'm not much seeing the point except for overkill.

Even for overkill though, I was highly tempted for $200 for another layer of protection. The VTA stuff would have just been a nice bonus.

[Dmurray06]

Originally Posted by iammike It was more of a curiosity thing for me. If I was going to buy the GA, which I seriously considered, it would be for the boost protection...but at the stage I'm at, running the boost I'm running, I'm not much seeing the point except for overkill. Even for overkill though, I was highly tempted for $200 for another layer of protection. The VTA stuff would have just been a nice bonus.

Trust me man, it's worth the money. There are quite a few people that popped waste gate lines. This happening during a WOT run will make you boost until something gives. In most cases, it's a rod exiting the block.

The way I looked at it is, I paid several thousand on bolt ons, what's $200 for a fail safe? Nothing. And with Black Friday sale, you can save yourself a few bucks.

[dantes5823]

Yea its a son bitch. Buy it. Honestly on the k04 I wouldn't. On bt. I would. I'm built now so not so much to worry. But I'm built because I unplugged it the night before. Sigh.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by Dmurray06 Trust me man, it's worth the money. There are quite a few people that popped waste gate lines. This happening during a WOT run will make you boost until something gives. In most cases, it's a rod exiting the block. The way I looked at it is, I paid several thousand on bolt ons, what's $200 for a fail safe? Nothing. And with Black Friday sale, you can save yourself a few bucks.

Now, I could be wrong on this so feel free to educate if I'm out in left field.

My understanding is that the ECU has enough of a delay with it's built in overboot cut that on BT cars pushing a lot of boost, it can't catch it before the boost climbs to a point that it's too late.

Seeing as I'm only pushing 19psi with one cutoff at 20psi and the other at 21.5psi (I can't remember which is which off the top of my head, one is fuel and one is throttle), could I really overboost that much before the ECU caught it?

Originally Posted by dantes5823 Yea its a son bitch. Buy it. Honestly on the k04 I wouldn't. On bt. I would. I'm built now so not so much to worry. But I'm built because I unplugged it the night before. Sigh.

Unplugged your GA or your WG?

[Lex]

On the phone here so I have to keep this reply brief and will write more later.

The VTA feature works at idle but it also limits how long the valve is open after shifting and this is important. You can do this through a stiff bpv spring but then you get part throttle surge.

For overboost it doesn't matter if you have bt or k04. The ECU cut is not fast enough to catch an overboost condition and the K04 can easily get to 30psi and beyond in the midrange. My rule of thumb is that if you change any of the boost control such as wg, ebcs, tune etc. It's good to have a failsafe.

On top of this an ECU cut is violent and hard on the car and dangerous. What if you're in the middle of a pass and you lose all power? The GA has a gentle reduction in boost and you can keep your foot in it and complete the pass.

[iammike]

I appreciate the thread input Lex. Seeing as I've had the GA on my mind for a few weeks now...eventually I'm sure you'll see an order from me. lol

I'm kind of OCD about keeping whatever I'm doing to the car "safe". Right now I'm just at a point where I've got to draw the line in the sand somewhere. 5400 miles on the car and I'm scared to add up the cost of what I've already done to it. -_-

[helmetface]

Originally Posted by Lex On the phone here so I have to keep this reply brief and will write more later. The VTA feature works at idle but it also limits how long the valve is open after shifting and this is important. You can do this through a stiff bpv spring but then you get part throttle surge. For overboost it doesn't matter if you have bt or k04. The ECU cut is not fast enough to catch an overboost condition and the K04 can easily get to 30psi and beyond in the midrange. My rule of thumb is that if you change any of the boost control such as wg, ebcs, tune etc. It's good to have a failsafe. On top of this an ECU cut is violent and hard on the car and dangerous. What if you're in the middle of a pass and you lose all power? The GA has a gentle reduction in boost and you can keep your foot in it and complete the pass.

Completely irrelevant, the photos of your GA on your site you have two switches near your GA led..what are those for?

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by iammike Now, I could be wrong on this so feel free to educate if I'm out in left field. My understanding is that the ECU has enough of a delay with it's built in overboot cut that on BT cars pushing a lot of boost, it can't catch it before the boost climbs to a point that it's too late. Seeing as I'm only pushing 19psi with one cutoff at 20psi and the other at 21.5psi (I can't remember which is which off the top of my head, one is fuel and one is throttle), could I really overboost that much before the ECU caught it? Unplugged your GA or your WG?

Well both really. Unplugged ga, ewg line came off.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 Well both really. Unplugged ga, ewg line came off.

Ouch, now that's a bad combination of events.

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by iammike Ouch, now that's a bad combination of events.

god wantd me built. so i listened.

[iammike]

Originally Posted by dantes5823 god wantd me built. so i listened.

...so god unplugged your GA. That dirty bastard.

[dantes5823]

Originally Posted by iammike ...so god unplugged your GA. That dirty bastard.

no i did. he did the ewg line

[iammike]

@Lex

Does using the GA in VTA mode in any way effect the way you would tune the spring tension in the BOV/BPV since it's forcing it closed at certain points?

[dantes5823]

The way i see the ga working is this. First an explanation. Spring tension is there so Manifold vacuum doesn't pull the valve open. So spring tension doesn't matter under boost because the valve is filled with pressure to push the valve down. What i imagine the ga does is either limits or closes the vacuum pressure to the valve at low load and since the spring will keep it closed at no boost condition, problem solved. But i didn't design the GA, @Lex; did.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by iammike @Lex Does using the GA in VTA mode in any way effect the way you would tune the spring tension in the BOV/BPV since it's forcing it closed at certain points?

Generally what people do to improve VTA is to crank down on the spring or use a very stiff one. This is not necessary with the GA, use a spring that doesn't cause part throttle surge.

Originally Posted by helmetface Completely irrelevant, the photos of your GA on your site you have two switches near your GA led..what are those for?

That is @Tomas; car so he will have to chime in.

[Tomas]

One is Meth the other anus massage engagement switch.