The loudest HPFP in all the land.

[goHAMM]

So, I started hearing this faint rattling a few weeks ago at throttle tip-in. First assumption (as you may have seen in former posts) was that it was the VVT. But, I took the VC off and saw very minimal scoring, the chain was nice and tight (when warm) and the actuator/button was in perfect condition. So, next, I noticed that the chatter was coming from around the turbo. So, inlet comes off, and I check the k04 out. Hey, something got in there and chunked the blades, and there is scoring on the walls. That's gotta be it!!! So in goes the GT2871r, and yet, STILL, the chatter exists. Not only is it still there, but its now present under ALL throttle, and its so loud that you can hear it from half a block away. So i whip out the screwdriver, and start listening around. It's the gahd damn FUEL PUMP!!! See if you can hear it in the video. Either way, I'm going to be pulling the internals (Corksport) tomorrow or thursday and seeing what the hell is going on in there. I shall post my findings! These internals have about 15k miles on them as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn4c...ature=youtu.be

[ms6mil]

HPFP rattle @ tip in is pretty common. I don't think I have ever heard a set not rattle to be honest. They are noisy! Easy fix.... Close the hood, log hpfp, make sure you are hitting your fuel targets.

fuel pump rattle
Autotech rattle revisited
hpfp going bad?

multiple threads on tip-in rattle

[doctavus]

If it only does it at throttle tip in than it's normal, my Autotech's do that and has been noted by several people.

[danmillerok]

Yeah but now it's rattling under all throttle and from "half a block away"...

[goHAMM]

@danmillerok thanks for actually reading the whole post lol. I realize that tip-in noise is normal, but that was the start of the problem. Now it rattles at any engine speed other than idle, and it's LOUD. Talked to Corksport, and even they said that theirs is supposed to be quieter than Autotech internals.

[ms6mil]

Didn't hear anything in that video that is not in any other mazdaspeed. Post some Logs.

I call BS on quieter Internals.

I would also look at the black bracket underneath the intake and HPFP area. The last local who did a turbo upgrade didn't remove that bracket and it was vibrating making all kinds of noise similar to the hpfp rattle. Over time it got worse/louder as well. Once removed noise was gone. May be a long shot but it worked in this particular situation.

[goHAMM]

Right, I couldn't take a video of it as I was driving, but trust me when I say that it's abnormally loud. I also had the chattering BEFORE doing the turbo swap, and on top of that, the black bracket was removed. I know for a fact that it is the HPFP making the noise, as I directly listened to it, and used a stethoscope to listen to it as well, on top of having a qualified mechanic locate the rattle (via scope) without telling him where to listen as well.
The reason for the post is CorkSport hasn't had any issues since their recall/reissue, so I wanted to put this on the forum should anyone run into the same problem. I will be taking it apart and checking it out tomorrow, then posting pics. Finally, I'm holding pressure just fine, so no need to post logs - but that's not the issue I'm running into. The issue is a sudden/rapid progression of an abnormally loud chatter, that was not there for the first ~7 months that I've had these internals.

I've attached a recording from inside of the car. You will need to crank it up and have headphones on, unless you have good speakers, but you can hear an additional chattering when I'm on the throttle. FF to 50 seconds to skip the random talking. Maybe it will give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. It is NOT normal FP chatter because if it was, it wouldn't just appear out of nowhere and it wouldn't be progressive.

[mituc]

How do your fuel pressure tables look like? Maybe you should think about commanding the factory pressure in the areas where the car operates like from factory. Upping the commanded fuel rail pressure in the low rpm/load areas doesn't do any good or improvement.

Other than that the sounds are pretty normal. Listened to the second sound clip as well, I think there was more noise coming from whatever you were using to support the camera/phone than from the fuel pump.

[goHAMM]

Update: I was right.

Pulled the internals and they were chunks missing from the cylinder head. I will be posting a new thread with pics and description of the issue so people know what is up.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by goHAMM Update: I was right. Pulled the internals and they were chunks missing from the cylinder head. I will be posting a new thread with pics and description of the issue so people know what is up.

Chunks missing from the cylinder head!?

[Jtaylor]

Oh lord, i've got my popcorn ready for this one.

Originally Posted by Gr8Speed Chunks missing from the cylinder head!?

LOL I assume he is referring to the pump internals, but I'm sure you already knew that

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by Jtaylor Oh lord, i've got my popcorn ready for this one. LOL I assume he is referring to the pump internals, but I'm sure you already knew that

I sure fucking hope so lol. I've been having a similar "rattling" issue lately and that scared the hell out of me.

[goHAMM]

Whatever the hell the top of that is called. I refuse to call it the "shaft" lol.

[Gr8Speed]

Originally Posted by goHAMM Whatever the hell the top of that is called. I refuse to call it the "shaft" lol.

Plunger, piston, anything but cylinder head LOL.

[goHAMM]

Piston it is.

[volcomcinematic]

sub.

[danmillerok]

Originally Posted by volcomcinematic sub.

You can sub to a thread without replying...

[Dumbguy]

Originally Posted by goHAMM Whatever the hell the top of that is called. I refuse to call it the "shaft" lol.

LOL! You said shaft

[Jtaylor]

And just an FYI, your avatar still freaks me out.

[goHAMM]

Official thread - http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...8/#post2711532

[JgamB]

We shall call it the glans penis.

[xorphanx]

So... I noticed my BAT was running pretty high today ~150-160 which I've never seen it that high before so I thought it was kind of weird, Opened up the hood to take a look if I could sense any excess heat coming off any part of the engine but no luck it was all pretty warm. Amongst that I noticed this clicking... youtube'd some stuff and thought it may be valve chatter, but turns out it's most likely this hpfp chatter. I just replaced the FP internals with the CS internals about 2 weeks ago and haven't driven my car vigorously at all, I use it as a daily to and from work. Has there been any easy fix to this? Take the HPFP housing off, inspect internals and then re-assemble? or am I to get a replacement set from CS and hopefully those will perform better??

https://youtu.be/kC-wDcmC8_s

I included a datalog of temps to see if maybe anyone can point me in the direction of why my BATs would be getting so warm now when there hasn't been any drastic temperature changes.

[SpencerC]

Autotech and CS HPFP's all make a noise. Most people don't notice it, some people do. If you listen you will notice. Unless you have your HPFP ACCT PRESS lower than it should be then you are fine.

Also, to do a log, do a WOT (WIde OPen throttle) Run in 3rd gear, from 3000rpm until about 5500 or 6000 rpm. Otherwise it doesn't tell us much.

[xorphanx]

Originally Posted by SpencerC Autotech and CS HPFP's all make a noise. Most people don't notice it, some people do. If you listen you will notice. Unless you have your HPFP ACCT PRESS lower than it should be then you are fine. Also, to do a log, do a WOT (WIde OPen throttle) Run in 3rd gear, from 3000rpm until about 5500 or 6000 rpm. Otherwise it doesn't tell us much.

I just took a datalog of a good distance with some high RPM's I'll post when I can get back to my computer. I have the CS internals, and from what I'm gathering is there's no real fix to this besides wait for it to get unbearable and then take action on possible replacement. Shoulda just gone with the cp-e hpfp, but I still think CS sells quality products so I'll figure out something to make these work.

[mituc]

The ticking that we can hear in your last clip is normal. And so does everything in your last log, as much as we can see in a huge log where you barely hit 0.6 load or so.

[SpencerC]

Originally Posted by xorphanx I just took a datalog of a good distance with some high RPM's I'll post when I can get back to my computer. I have the CS internals, and from what I'm gathering is there's no real fix to this besides wait for it to get unbearable and then take action on possible replacement. Shoulda just gone with the cp-e hpfp, but I still think CS sells quality products so I'll figure out something to make these work.

It is normal. There is nothing wrong with it. The Autotechs would do it the same. There is no need for a CPE pump. They are expensive and really only do a quarter of the work for you. Since they just put a KMD (i believe) internals in a used pump and send it back.

[xorphanx]

Originally Posted by mituc The ticking that we can hear in your last clip is normal. And so does everything in your last log, as much as we can see in a huge log where you barely hit 0.6 load or so.

Sorry for taking so long to get back on this, had to hit the gym for a bit. This is probably the best datalog I took for WOT.

Also sorry for being such a newbie, it's my first vehicle throwing mods into so I hear a noise and always expect the worse. Glad to be in a community with so many pros though! Really sets me at ease knowing there's a reliable database full of passionate people.

[mituc]

The fuelling looks good apart from the very rich AFRs, possibly due to a boost leak considering the low boost and rich AFR readings. Also, I have no idea what the throttle position sensor reads, but te throttle is probably closed a bit because of whatever is going on.

I've seen the rich AFRs in your previous log as well, but I thought it was due to cold engine enrichment. Now it's clearer.

[xorphanx]

What should I do to adjust? I haven't put any HP/Torque mods yet so i'm still running the poopie stage 0 map on the accessport. I've only installed the HPFP internals because it seemed like a good step in the foundation towards future mods.

[frothy]

@xorphanx; That wasn't exactly a WOT log... Your throttle position was peaking in the 40% range for the most part. Pedal should be completely depressed. Don't go WOT below 3k rpms and make sure you're on a relatively flat/straight road.

As already stated, HPFP ticking is normal.

EDIT: As far as fixing a rich condition, check your boost tubes for leaks. The fix is usually as simple as tightening down the clamps...

[xorphanx]

Originally Posted by frothy @xorphanx; That wasn't exactly a WOT log... Your throttle position was peaking in the 40% range for the most part. Pedal should be completely depressed. Don't go WOT below 3k rpms and make sure you're on a relatively flat/straight road. As already stated, HPFP ticking is normal. EDIT: As far as fixing a rich condition, check your boost tubes for leaks. The fix is usually as simple as tightening down the clamps...

This is as close as I can get on the freeways around here. Pedal to the floor from 3k-55k RPM's in 4th gear

[mituc]

At this point I don't think your HPFP is an issue. It's either the tune or something mechanical with the car. It accelerates slowly, especially in the mid range the throttle is not fully open (fully open means around 76-77%) even if you push the acceleration pedal to the floor (as far as we can understand), and it runs super rich with low boost. So again: boost leak?

[xorphanx]

Ok, i'll have to figure out how to test for boost leak. Someone said most of the time it's just a loose clamp, I have my inlet pipe and intake on the way in the mail so i'll be sure to check all the clamps during the swap. Take another log and compare.

[SofaKingAwesome]

Have you removed the pump and looked inside at the "bumper" that is driven by the cam lobe?

[xorphanx]

Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome Have you removed the pump and looked inside at the "bumper" that is driven by the cam lobe?

I have not, I'm assuming that I should though.

[xorphanx]

Mechanically nothing feels wrong while i am driving so it's hard to tell, which makes me believe it may just be a loose clamp somewhere.

[SofaKingAwesome]

Originally Posted by xorphanx I have not, I'm assuming that I should though.

Picture in post #12 here:
Help can't get my hpfp back in