Oil Spraying in Engine Bay, Rich AFR's, Smokey Exhaust

[bryancregger]

Over the holiday I drove my car up to my families which was about 500 miles, and it ran great. Once I got there I parked it and didn't touch it for a couple of days. Temps were around 10* and as long as I've had the car it has always been garaged so this was likely the coldest temps it has seen.

When I was getting ready to head back home I started the car to let it warm and when I came back outside I noticed a lot of white smoke coming from the exhaust. I popped the hood and looked for obvious issues, but didn't see anything. I took it for a drive and it felt very sluggish below 3k where boost comes in. I checked my AFR's and even under complete decel the highest they would go was 21. Once I parked the car again I popped the hood and there was oil on the passenger side of the valve cover. It looked like it was coming from the black cylindrical thing, which from searching I've come up with is the Oil Control Valve??

Anyway the car is parked in northern Wyoming and there are literally no Mazda dealers near the area. Any help or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I've already reflashed the map, checked O2 sensor connectors, and checked fluid levels (coolant was good, oil was low)


Thanks MSF

[jdmage_mx5]

Sounds like higher than normal crankcase pressure to me.

[mxlplx71]

didnt blow the dipstick eh?

[ihasmazda]

leaking PCV ?

[bryancregger]

Higher than normal crankcase pressure is an interesting one, during cold weather the catch can should fill up quicker correct? My occ is setup the way that cork sport recommends so I have one line going from the pcv to a T fitting, the cam case breather is going to the vertical portion of the t fitting, then that goes into the lower inlet of the occ. the upper inlet of the occ is going to my cork sport TIP.

No the dipstick appeared intact and unmoved.

[mxlplx71]

maybe the occ froze up

[GrumpyMPS]

Photo's would help, but could the "smoke" be steam in fact? Could the oil be from the oil filled Passenger engine mount? Seeing that it has never seen temps this cold, could the tune simply be off and riching up the mixtures for the cold? Just guessing here......

[86AmishMs3]

Sure the pmm didn't blow it's load all over?

[bryancregger]

No the PMM seems intact, and from what I understand the PMM fluid will turn orange with time (correct me if I'm wrong). I seriously doubt the steam theory because it smelled of unburned fuel and my AFR's were off the chart, like 10.0 at idle. I'm definitely open to checking all of this as well, I can get pics but it will be a bit as the car is stuck in northern Wyoming and I'm in Colorado. It really appeared that the source of the oil was the Oil Control Valve, which if I go with the high crankcase pressure theory would make sense as to why it would spew from there, or possible the Oil Fill Cap.

[shamie]

Originally Posted by mxlplx71 maybe the occ froze up

+1

[bryancregger]

That certainly makes the most sense, can anyone explain why that would cause the rich AFR's and thick exhaust? Also with the limited time that I drove the car in that condition is there a high potential for residual issues, if in fact the frozen OCC is the issue?

[mxlplx71]

Could have split open"vac leak", maybe sucked seperated oils into turbo. Worth inspecting.

[bryancregger]

Well the car is being brought down on a trailer this weekend, I'm going to put it in the garage and turn on the heater, hopefully I'll get the temp up to about 70* and thaw it out. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, I'm crossing my fingers it's something as simple as the catch can issue.

[MileHigh303]

Originally Posted by bryancregger Well the car is being brought down on a trailer this weekend, I'm going to put it in the garage and turn on the heater, hopefully I'll get the temp up to about 70* and thaw it out. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions, I'm crossing my fingers it's something as simple as the catch can issue.

Damn hopefully thawing it will get it done. Keep us posted bro

[2 slo pu]

Did you drain the occ before making the trip? I know mine fills rather quickly this time of year.

Sent from my busted droid while dreaming of aux fueling

[JDMJOSH]

Originally Posted by bryancregger Over the holiday I drove my car up to my families which was about 500 miles, and it ran great. Once I got there I parked it and didn't touch it for a couple of days. Temps were around 10* and as long as I've had the car it has always been garaged so this was likely the coldest temps it has seen. When I was getting ready to head back home I started the car to let it warm and when I came back outside I noticed a lot of white smoke coming from the exhaust. I popped the hood and looked for obvious issues, but didn't see anything. I took it for a drive and it felt very sluggish below 3k where boost comes in. I checked my AFR's and even under complete decel the highest they would go was 21. Once I parked the car again I popped the hood and there was oil on the passenger side of the valve cover. It looked like it was coming from the black cylindrical thing, which from searching I've come up with is the Oil Control Valve?? Anyway the car is parked in northern Wyoming and there are literally no Mazda dealers near the area. Any help or thoughts are greatly appreciated. I've already reflashed the map, checked O2 sensor connectors, and checked fluid levels (coolant was good, oil was low) Thanks MSF

I'm having the exact same issue atm. Can most likely froze, car running sluggish and backfiring with lots of smoke. Limped it home, low on oil. Won't turn over now.

[mituc]

Jammed piston rings after the condensation froze on them also makes sense. In such cases there's only one fix, by replacing the piston rings. Time to go forged?

[shamie]

I've NEVER heard of that happening.

[mituc]

Because you don't live in cold climate maybe... but it does happen. The condensation around the piston rings freezes up and the rings remain jammed. At the next start they won't let go and eventually wear unevenly.

[Bstrm]

It happen the same to me..... My vta setup doing well during 5 winter and last summer it completely froze..... Oil jump out deepstick all over the engine bay, lot off smoke.....

I let the car il a garage for a day and after it he was like a brand new..... In winter i return stock after that...

[bryancregger]

Thanks for more info everyone. The car will be here tonight, and I will get it in the garage to start the "thawing" process. The more I think about it the more the frozen OCC makes sense. I'm thinking of ways to efficiently thaw it. My garage does seal up nicely but I have no central heating for it.

Would a space heater be overkill? Any other thoughts on how to properly heat it? I've also considered just removing it but I also fear that the line from the PCV may have frozen bits in it, which is a PITA to remove.

Originally Posted by 2 slo pu Did you drain the occ before making the trip? I know mine fills rather quickly this time of year. Sent from my busted droid while dreaming of aux fueling

No unfortunately I didn't, I emptied it around 1000 miles before the trip but I agree it seems that during the colder months it fills rather quickly.

[shamie]

Originally Posted by mituc Because you don't live in cold climate maybe... but it does happen. The condensation around the piston rings freezes up and the rings remain jammed. At the next start they won't let go and eventually wear unevenly.

I don't currently live in that cold of a climate (only gets into the single F digits), but for my first 22 years I saw below -20F in the winters. Rings freezing was never the problem turning an engine over - it was oil viscosity.

[ASHMS3]

This will require more time and patience on your part, but to thaw the can I would suggest using a heat gun or hair dryer on the can and lines. If you use a heat gun be careful on the lines, heat guns get pretty fucking hot and you don't want to melt a line.

[bryancregger]

Well I got it thawed out and it's running great again, I'm contemplating removing the OCC setup but we will see. Thanks again to all the suggestions everyone.

[mxlplx71]

After you posted the other day I checked my occ, almost completely full.
Definitely fills quickly in the colder weather.
Glad it was a simple fix for you.

[Yatta]

thinking about this and it makes sense, maybe we take the throttle coolant lines, wrap copper tubing around the can and run coolant through it (heated catch can)... most of what ends up in the can is water condensation... or fabbing a winter bypass...

[MileHigh303]

Glad she is up and running good Bryan

[bryancregger]

Originally Posted by Yatta thinking about this and it makes sense, maybe we take the throttle coolant lines, wrap copper tubing around the can and run coolant through it (heated catch can)... most of what ends up in the can is water condensation... or fabbing a winter bypass...

Both good ideas, It's frustrating living in cold climates when things like this come up, for now I'm going to be diligent about emptying the can every Sunday.

When I took the can our it was literally full and completely frozen, both ports were solid ice so there was no chance for any flow. After thawing it and the lines, we turned the car on and within 5 seconds the smoke had cleared and AFR's were back to normal. What is even more concerning about the whole situation is somehow within 10-15 miles of moderate driving the car consumed 4 out of the 6 quarts of oil it had. The only logic I have about that is the valve cover was flooded and every time a valve opened it dumped oil. Any thoughts on that?

Originally Posted by MileHigh303 Glad she is up and running good Bryan

Thanks man, unfortunately I'm still really skeptical about the car at the moment.

[Dumbguy]

Glad this got resolved. Definitely going to keep my catch can drained during the really cold months. Doesn't get crazy cold here, but its definitely something to think about.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by bryancregger Both good ideas, It's frustrating living in cold climates when things like this come up, for now I'm going to be diligent about emptying the can every Sunday. When I took the can our it was literally full and completely frozen, both ports were solid ice so there was no chance for any flow. After thawing it and the lines, we turned the car on and within 5 seconds the smoke had cleared and AFR's were back to normal. What is even more concerning about the whole situation is somehow within 10-15 miles of moderate driving the car consumed 4 out of the 6 quarts of oil it had. The only logic I have about that is the valve cover was flooded and every time a valve opened it dumped oil. Any thoughts on that? Thanks man, unfortunately I'm still really skeptical about the car at the moment.

Oil drains out of the head via passages back to the block so this is unlikely. On top of that the only way oil can get into the combustion chamber from the head is past the valve seals and they won't leak 4 quarts of oil in 15 minutes or we would all be in trouble.

Something else is going on here.

[bryancregger]

Originally Posted by Lex Oil drains out of the head via passages back to the block so this is unlikely. On top of that the only way oil can get into the combustion chamber from the head is past the valve seals and they won't leak 4 quarts of oil in 15 minutes or we would all be in trouble. Something else is going on here.

Way to re-scare the shit out of me Lex No leakage under the car just spraying in the engine bay. Just off of observation it looked like maybe a quart but it's entirely possible that more sprayed and simply fell to the pavement. Would it make sense that a combination of both consumption and spraying would eat 4 quarts in that time?

[Yatta]

if your PCV was completely plugged the next weakest link would be where most of the oil/pressure would be relieved.... usually the dipstick blows and its not a problem (other than a mess) follow the oil if you can and you might find it, if you truly pressurized the bottom end you could have been at boost pressure...

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by bryancregger Both good ideas, It's frustrating living in cold climates when things like this come up, for now I'm going to be diligent about emptying the can every Sunday. When I took the can our it was literally full and completely frozen, both ports were solid ice so there was no chance for any flow. After thawing it and the lines, we turned the car on and within 5 seconds the smoke had cleared and AFR's were back to normal. What is even more concerning about the whole situation is somehow within 10-15 miles of moderate driving the car consumed 4 out of the 6 quarts of oil it had. The only logic I have about that is the valve cover was flooded and every time a valve opened it dumped oil. Any thoughts on that? Thanks man, unfortunately I'm still really skeptical about the car at the moment.

Cold season is when we make up for being at altitude cold dense air and crazy intercooler performance. But never thought about catch can freezing, should have glad you posted this as I have my can waiting for install...

[Bstrm]

When the Line off my occ frozed i drive 2 Time 5 minute.....

Each Time i lost 3 quart of oil..... A year later the engine run like a new

[mituc]

I wonder why don't we let that PCV line dip on the ground and cap the intake port the PCV line connects to.
I also wonder how hard would it be to convert the whole system to a vacuum pump based crankcase ventilation.

[Bstrm]

Its not just the occ that can froze but the Line and even if the can is empty or disconnect....

[shamie]

This whole situation is why I've steered clear of OCCs. I'd rather deal with a valve cleaning every few years than have this possibility every winter.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by shamie This whole situation is why I've steered clear of OCCs. I'd rather deal with a valve cleaning every few years than have this possibility every winter.

Same here.
Up to a certain point the need of an OCC can be diminished by changing the driving habits. And it's not even complicated: do not drive hard while the engine is still cold (15-20 minutes more after the ECT needle is around the middle of the gauge), but don't drive it too much below 2k rpm either, never let the car idle indefinitely for tens of minutes, if you need to make a short trip (less than 5 miles) with a cold engine then make your trip longer (7-8 miles at least), when you stop the engine after a short trip with a cold engine don't let it idle more than like 30 seconds before you stop it.

But even so you can't avoid completely the intake valve build-up even when using the right engine oils.

[Sebs6]

Originally Posted by mituc Same here. Up to a certain point the need of an OCC can be diminished by changing the driving habits. And it's not even complicated: do not drive hard while the engine is still cold (15-20 minutes more after the ECT needle is around the middle of the gauge), but don't drive it too much below 2k rpm either, never let the car idle indefinitely for tens of minutes, if you need to make a short trip (less than 5 miles) with a cold engine then make your trip longer (7-8 miles at least), when you stop the engine after a short trip with a cold engine don't let it idle more than like 30 seconds before you stop it. But even so you can't avoid completely the intake valve build-up even when using the right engine oils.

Well said sir. I'm having something a Lil similar but not quite the same. I'm smoking not horrible but Def something to check. I play around with it over the weekend. is not the turbo I know that for a fact. not the motor etc, I'm almost positive is the occ..is coming off today.

[mxlplx71]

wind chill is more than -20 all day, cars been ou 3 times with no problems.
just empty it more in the winter.
all the crap that comes out, i sure dont want going in my turbo and/or intake.

MS6 became smoke machine this AM... oh nos

Link from @dale_gribble; thread