Race Roots Vendorship

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by Race Roots At 3pm their will be a discussion about the matter. We will be requesting the patent information, once they provide that we will be on our merry way to the resolution they have offered and that should put this to bed period. As for the claims of using a shitty material or welding technology, it seems the bulk of the product is coming from the same source. CUSTOM PERFORMANCE ENGINEERING: Detailed Company Information, Imports & Exports Custom Performance Engineering - Car Video

Materials from China ≠ manufacturing, assembly, and quality control in China.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Fagwagon Oh my..i hope RR sticks with their word on tuning services...i dont see why they would be buying and selling other peoples parts considering they are supposed to have been fabbing their own parts for their kit..

What makes me made is the thought that they were supposed to be making or having their parts made and a kit was supposed to be built. Instead they early release what seems to be a knock off DP that has ZERO to do with the kit they are supposed to be releasing and should be focusing on. Also I'm sure their supplies are limited so how would they duplicate more? Or just label it V2 when their supply ran out and they had to actually make a totally differnt one.

[www.cp-e.com]

I will stay out of this thread as much as possible until I speak with Brice and his partner at 3PM today -

I have a lot I want to say but out of respect for Haltech for being so dedicated and handling this properly I won't.

What I will say is that Race Roots came on this forum with what is a COMPLETE knock off down to the way we cut our turbo flange on the downpipe (we cut it a very different way so that if someone copied our product it would be blatantly obvious). We also use the domestic style free floating flange on the ball and socket. There are a few other things. RR claims to have all these parts fabricated in house yet the downpipe they are offering and still haven't removed from other forums, their website, etc. is one sold on ebay for a 1/3 the price. We have dealt with the other two companies amicably and had no legal charges filed. Apparently patent or no patent Race Roots feels it is okay to triple the price of a product that was on ebay, claim it as their own, and then claim that we are lying about the # of people we have had call and try and get warranty performed on them since the welds crack. It is a shotty made replica. Why do you think the original price was about 130$ on ebay?

At cp-e we pride ourselves on the work we do and we do it IN HOUSE. We have robotic mig welders, mandrel benders, full cnc machines, and our benders and cnc machines run of cad programs so we ensure perfect fitment, we have 3 full tig and mig welding stations, 3d printer, faro arm for digitizing, etc. All of our product releases are on customer vehicles. We delayed our announcement of breaking the "wall" over a month so that we could have a car not affiliated with us at all come prove it. A 3071 made 394whp and 400wtq on a mustang dyno on pump gas and no meth. The turbo made what it was supposed to make and it did so efficiently. Our shop is open almost 7 days a week as someone is typicall always there doing work. Our public ours are monday - friday. We welcome any visitors to swing in and see what we do, how we do it, and we'll even give you reasoning for why we do it that way. Every part we make goes through rigorous R&D, testing, and retesting. The owners of cp-e all have engineering degrees. We are not a fabrication shop. We manufacture. We do not build engines or cars. We manufacture the parts that allow companies like race roots to build cars. We aren't their competition. We just felt that the way business was being handled was going to cause issues for customers of everyone and wanted to look out for the community. I at times allowed myself to stoop down to their level and apologize immensely. I let my emotions get involved. At this point - we'll let customers speak for us. We have a few cars that will be up soon with the newest versions of our flashes. Good luck to all. We hope to see you in our shop someday.

We will handle this at 3PM.

Thank you again Kevin. You have been a great help.

[felt]

Seems like RR got busted on this particular issue, how can these be "RR Tuned" when you purchased them pre-made?

You wouldn't have gotten called out in the first place if you would have actually built those downpipes you were selling. Obviously you lied about the downpipes and cp-e did well by their members by bringing it to haltech's attention.

Next time, build your own stuff.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller Materials from China ≠ manufacturing, assembly, and quality control in China.

Yup Brice you really shouldn't have tried to admit that as evidence.

[Cosmic3MPS]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller Materials from China ≠ manufacturing, assembly, and quality control in China.

Absolutely correct! China can and does make good products. The only issue is quality control. A reputable company will ensure that imported goods meet the desired quality benchmark.

[jeebus]

Being a relatively new member to this site, and the MS3 community in general; my opinion my not be as valid...but based on all the threads I've seen RR seems like a shady company. Most of us have seen these types of vendors before, with other platforms, etc. I don't think they intend on being that shady, but they just don't have the proper skills, knowledge, or funding to start out the right way and it ends up leading to a downward spiral of shady shit just to keep afloat.

I see nothing wrong with knockoff parts, or parts made in China. But there are stipulations. The product cannot be marketed AS what it's knocking off, it needs to be somewhat different, and it needs to be manufactured with proven quality. Look at Rota. Some people hate them for what they do, but overall their wheels are just fine. They don't pretend to be anything but Rota wheels. Or look at DDM. They took the HID market by storm. Their kits are made in China, but they work just fine and are insanely cheap.

The RR "tuned" downpipe is not on that same level. These DPs have been marketed by other companies AS CP-e pipes. Those companies got shut down and now RR has the pipes. RR should NOT be marketing them as "RR tuned". The pipes are obviously of questionable quality, and most of us with DP experience know it's much safer to go with a nice fat, cast, bellmouth. Any company willing to pass off crap parts as their own, when they aren't even their own, is shady.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by felt Seems like RR got busted on this particular issue, how can these be "RR Tuned" when you purchased them pre-made? You wouldn't have gotten called out in the first place if you would have actually built those downpipes you were selling. Obviously you lied about the downpipes and cp-e did well by their members by bringing it to haltech's attention. Next time, build your own stuff.

There's tough love in this post but the guy is right. RR stepped on an avoidable landmine releasing those DP's knock offs or not. One they have nothing to do with the kit they were supposed to be building and 2 they may or may not be knock offs.

[felt]

On another note, Exhaust Depot (while not being active on the forums), were able to fabricate FMIC's and Downpipes, it seems like they had a relatively small shop and limited amount of man hours to fabricate hard parts. They were never called out on their Downpipes or FMIC releases, because they actually built it themselves, I'm sure RR has much larger funds and a more robust shop, why aren't they capable of building their own stuff?

What I find mind boggling is how were they able to build such a beautiful Turbo Manifold, yet skimp on something simple like a Downpipe.

[www.cp-e.com]

Here is the main issue - lets say Race Roots gets their kit even one customers car. Lets say its actually good. Is it at that point okay for me to take his kit and sell it for 1/3 the price? To his same customer base, on a small community forum? Legal, moral, ethical, etc. All things to think about. Some people say yes. Others say no.

When it comes down to it we have grown tired of being harassed by the same members of this forum. 240speed3 - you come off as an ignorant fan boy. Claiming we do not make our downpipes and our products in house? Feel free to stop by to watch our 10-12 hour manufacturing days nearly 6-7 days a week. There are others but they haven't been as difficult. Brice likes to throw around the discussion of libel and legal consequences. You call us bullies for protecting our investments? For working hard to ensure that our employees in our shop (not a house) are able to afford to feed their families? We have received many an email from brice threatening legal action for libel which has never truely been committed from cp-e. Like i mentioned previously I did stoop down to their irresponsible and unexcusable business practices for a few days. I regret that I did so. However - there are real issues that are at hand now and things WILL be sorted. His own possy should learn the definition of libel and harassment as we DO have a legal team that represents cp-e and it is not a matter taken lightly. This is NOT a threat as we have taken flack before and simply let our products and customers represent who we really are. We were here in 2007. We are here now. And we will be here for every speed generation to come. We are STILL offering RR the chance to handle this like gentleman and require no legal aid.

[Darksun280]

I personally don't think that RR can be sued for the dp's though. Now that I'm buying Nissan parts theres a compnay called ISIS on Enjuku Racing - Performance Parts and High Quality Fabrication
Basically it was a shitty asian knock off company that the enjuku site took under thier wing and got them to improve their products and now the site backs anything ISIS makes. Reviews for their items are good.

The point I'm trying to make is that these parts are OBVIOUS knock offs even down to the color of things but you don't see isis getting sued for their intake mani that mimics the Greddy one to a T seen here.



thats why I feel its going to be hard for CPE to get anywhere past threatening when it comes to this knock of thing. If Greddy ain't going after a knock off company I don't know how CPE will.

[www.cp-e.com]

We were never planning on suing Race Roots. There are many ways to handle situations such as this through legal means. A law suit was NOT our intention.

[Darksun280]

Also let it be known I don't Like the company RR but I'm trying my damnedest to make sure they get a fair trial if this is what you can call this thread. I don't care for their business practices but I'll play both sides when it comes to the DP thing.

The DP is an obvious knock off but in the car parts world knock offs don't seem to be made illegal easily. CPE making a post pointing out something is a knock off is fine if they felt they are wronged. We usually wouldn't allow a vendor not to say don't buy companies XX DP cause its a cheaper knock off cause that violates the rules. To state there are knock offs out their and to say make sure you buy only authentic CPE parts is with in the rules.

[felt]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com When it comes down to it we have grown tired of being harassed by the same members of this forum. 240speed3 - you come off as an ignorant fan boy.

CP-E, don't mind him, his credibility went out the window when the issue with franky's HR 350z went down.

240speed3 was bitch-slapped with reality and ever since, he's kept his mouth shut on that topic.

[SneakyP86]

I can attest to CPE building their own products. I have been to their shop and I have to say you can hardly move around in the back because they have so many different machines.

[Darksun280]

I feel like if something is pointed out to be a knock off but still bought by a customer then its all gravy. Hell I know I'm buying the Freddy intake manifold and not the greddy one next week for my nissan and im perfectly ok with that. I'm going to get what I pay for. I don't think RR should be lynched for the fake DP but they need their tails roasted for not having a DP towards their kit available by now.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 That's funny cause when I was hard on RR 6 months ago people didn't say I was looking out for them they said GTFO. People seem to like getting screwed over completely first before treading lightly. No matter how nice Brice is in a chat or on the phone if there's no products being produced but Money is being taken in advance, and constant issues with the business practices the vendors gotta go.

i was also on this bandwagon trying to protect ALL of the members on this site and i was even referred to as a "laloosh" because of what i said. people were dick sucking right and left as soon as they posted a 400whp dyno and some track times. i got banned from every RR thread i said something in and it was BS. i eventually just stopped caring and now look where people are. fuck everyone who bitched at me and called me a hater because this is the SECOND time i came out swinging at a no name vendor (first was midevil and all my negative posts were instantly deleted) and it came back to bite people in the ass. people are entirely too trusting of the idea that "o it works, just accept it". CPE and PTP are the ONLY companies ive ever seen on this forum to do some legit R&D on their products before they are released.

i think some action needs to be taken that constitutes the rules by which a vendor can receive "vendor status." things such as parts need to be for sale and shipping before they can receive it and a background check needs to be done. in the case of midevil, they already fucked LOTS of 6club members before they came to this site. it was well documented over the internet so how the fuck did they get vendor status here then?

[Haltech]

Well again, this thread needs to stay on topic. There are fanbois, its a fact and it cannot be stopped.

Ill even say, as long as i had my personal issue with Cpe from the time i started MSF until recently, i always gave them credit for building in house. Cobb, had mass manf done in China and assembled in house. Cpe does it all in house, which is why you will pay more, but it is made in the USA and each part is a perfect fit.

The DP is a copy, it cannot be more obvious. However, whatever agreement is made, i hope this goes down as a past issue. I personally would like to see RR bring their turbo setup to the table.

But... i want to see it done in a reasonable of time without a hiccup. When i bring vendors on board, i expect them to deliver the products as promised without screwing any of these members around. RR started smooth and i had to give them time to deliver what they promised. Darky was a bit rough with them when they didnt have their turbo kits for sale within 3 days, but thats Phil and he has high expectations

There has to be one genuine, honest forum in in existence that isnt out to profit off its members and let vendors control the operation (finances) of the forum itself. This is what MSF stands for and will continue to do. We may be small in numbers, but we are powerful in spreading moralities among enthusiast, aside from p0rn, drugs and alcohol.

[Superstretch18]

Others might disagree, but IMO people are shooting themselves in the foot if they buy knock off products. Especially on this platform. There are only a couple good companies actually doing the research, design and engineering. Buying cheap fakes instead of the the real thing cuts into a good company's bottom line and could possibly teach them that it's not worth making new stuff. This is a small market as it is; don't make it smaller by supporting crap vendors selling bootleg parts.

Nevermind that you are buying a product of questionable quality from unknown sources that could potentially leave you on the side of the road; but might save you a buck. A bargain is only a bargain if it doesn't cost you more in the end...

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes i was also on this bandwagon trying to protect ALL of the members on this site and i was even referred to as a "laloosh" because of what i said. people were dick sucking right and left as soon as they posted a 400whp dyno and some track times. i got banned from every RR thread i said something in and it was BS. i eventually just stopped caring and now look where people are. fuck everyone who bitched at me and called me a hater because this is the SECOND time i came out swinging at a no name vendor (first was midevil and all my negative posts were instantly deleted) and it came back to bite people in the ass. people are entirely too trusting of the idea that "o it works, just accept it". CPE and PTP are the ONLY companies ive ever seen on this forum to do some legit R&D on their products before they are released. i think some action needs to be taken that constitutes the rules by which a vendor can receive "vendor status." things such as parts need to be for sale and shipping before they can receive it and a background check needs to be done. in the case of midevil, they already fucked LOTS of 6club members before they came to this site. it was well documented over the internet so how the fuck did they get vendor status here then?

Its quite simple.. I cannot legally do a full background using my job to perform these type of things. However, i also do not get input from members on a vendor until something bad happens. If you seem to have all the answers to running a forum and its vendors, im all ears for your proposals.

However, for 2010 i have new standards in which i set to bring on new ones. This includes copies of business licenses, pictures of inventory, pictures and factual business locations and contacts with other forum operators. I can only do so much with my limited resources. After all, im a one man show with moderators who choose to operate the site on their own time and without any monetary compensation.

i even considered removing vendors from my site and selling the products myself... but reality is reality. im not a vendor, im not a store and i dont do retail. I also do not like to talk on the phone or do manual labor. So, selling, packing, shipping.. is out of the question.

[Fobio]

so from what I gathered so far, everyone wants RR to build their own shit and charge everyone CP-e money?

sounds like win-win to me...for cp-e and RR anyway...

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com What I will say is that Race Roots came on this forum with what is a COMPLETE knock off down to the way we cut our turbo flange on the downpipe (we cut it a very different way so that if someone copied our product it would be blatantly obvious). We also use the domestic style free floating flange on the ball and socket.

you dont have a patent on the flange...its just a flange, no matter how you cut it. You also dont have a patent on the ball and socket. You said yourself that its a style thats already out there. The only thing you can do is point out that it is an inferior product, which you have. you arernt even going to take legal action because its a waste of time. You had an easy time with the other sellers because they claimed it was cpe brand. You would actually have to go to court and prove this was a copy.

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Here is the main issue - lets say Race Roots gets their kit even one customers car. Lets say its actually good. Is it at that point okay for me to take his kit and sell it for 1/3 the price? To his same customer base, on a small community forum? Legal, moral, ethical, etc. All things to think about. Some people say yes. Others say no.

This makes no sense. They didnt create the turbo, no one is going to have a patent on a manifold (there are so many ways to make it) and the downpipe is just bent tubing. Recreating this kit and selling it as your own is not illegal...ever. The only thing making it illegal would be to sell it as a "RR turbo kit".


Dont get me wrong here. I think its great that someone pointed these out as shotty craftsmanship, and that they really werent made by RR, but that's where it should stop.

To those people who complain about the markup on the price, you have obviously never had a business or know anything about profit.

[felt]

Originally Posted by Blackspeed To those people who complain about the markup on the price, you have obviously never had a business or know anything about profit.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the prices dude..

[Darksun280]

I thanked Black speeds post cause in the end thats the way its going to play out. I don't think anything forceforlly can be done to RR to get them to stop selling a knock off but in the end some people want knock off stuff. I'm not going to hold the DP's against RR. When it comes to their turbo kits though I'll whoop wholesale ass on them.

Part of me is like the Mazda guys needs all the Good vendors they can get so in that respect I don't want RR to leave but right now all I'm seeing is Drama and no parts which frustrates me Brice. If you want to drop ship parts to people thats fine but then don't market your self as a parts manufacture when your not coming off as one over the past 6 or 7 months.

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by felt I don't think anyone is complaining about the prices dude..

Originally Posted by SneakyP86 The ludicrous profit they were gonna make off of the DP's on EBAY for $130 they were selling for $300 (kind of makes you wonder how much the price was inflated for the turbo kit and fueling solution at least it does for me). Why would anybody in their right mind fork out any money to these guys until they come forward and explain themselves to us the CUSTOMER.............BUYER BEWARE!!

here

[www.cp-e.com]

This isn't a game unfortunately. Legal actions are already put into place - we simply are giving RR the chance to handle it in a way that wont cost them a lot of moeny in hiring an attorney. We haven't said what legal action we are taking. We haven't said we are going after them for copyright or patent purposes. The attorney happens to be a patent/copyright attorney - I am pretty sure he knows what we can and can't get away with. The way it will be handled is appropriate - whether its done through legal arbitration or as men over the phone.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com This isn't a game unfortunately. Legal actions are already put into place - we simply are giving RR the chance to handle it in a way that wont cost them a lot of moeny in hiring an attorney. We haven't said what legal action we are taking. We haven't said we are going after them for copyright or patent purposes. The attorney happens to be a patent/copyright attorney - I am pretty sure he knows what we can and can't get away with. The way it will be handled is appropriate - whether its done through legal arbitration or as men over the phone.

Hey more power to you if RR is in the wrong I hope they get what ever is coming to them. That goes for any other company where legal action can be taking against them for supposed bad business practices.

[Blackspeed]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com This isn't a game unfortunately. Legal actions are already put into place - we simply are giving RR the chance to handle it in a way that wont cost them a lot of moeny in hiring an attorney. We haven't said what legal action we are taking. We haven't said we are going after them for copyright or patent purposes. The attorney happens to be a patent/copyright attorney - I am pretty sure he knows what we can and can't get away with. The way it will be handled is appropriate - whether its done through legal arbitration or as men over the phone.

lol...you better hope he handles it over the phone "like a man". I know what patent attorneys charge, and you know as well as I, that going to court is going to cost you more money than its worth. The most that would happen is the attorney writes them a letter. Anything after that, you will lose money.

Please dont take this the wrong way. I am nobodies fanboy and I'm not trying to be a dick. Like everyone has said: cpe has been around quite some time and they make good products. i just needed to point out a few things.

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by Haltech However, for 2010 i have new standards in which i set to bring on new ones. This includes copies of business licenses, pictures of inventory, pictures and factual business locations and contacts with other forum operators. I can only do so much with my limited resources. After all, im a one man show with moderators who choose to operate the site on their own time and without any monetary compensation.

this is EXACTLY what im talking about. just some "background" info and reviews on the company that could potentially uncover some poor business practices and past incidents. great job kevin

[boardjnky4]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com This isn't a game unfortunately. Legal actions are already put into place - we simply are giving RR the chance to handle it in a way that wont cost them a lot of moeny in hiring an attorney. We haven't said what legal action we are taking. We haven't said we are going after them for copyright or patent purposes. The attorney happens to be a patent/copyright attorney - I am pretty sure he knows what we can and can't get away with. The way it will be handled is appropriate - whether its done through legal arbitration or as men over the phone.

So, basically you are going to just strong-arm them because you know they can't afford a lawyer.

lol, nice ethical approach.

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Blackspeed lol...you better hope he handles it over the phone "like a man". I know what patent attorneys charge, and you know as well as I, that going to court is going to cost you more money than its worth. The most that would happen is the attorney writes them a letter. Anything after that, you will lose money. Please dont take this the wrong way. I am nobodies fanboy and I'm not trying to be a dick. Like everyone has said: cpe has been around quite some time and they make good products. i just needed to point out a few things.

Cpe's got lawyers in the family that's why I think they are trying to handle this before they start costing RR money.

Originally Posted by boardjnky4 So, basically you are going to just strong-arm them because you know they can't afford a lawyer. lol, nice ethical approach.

Smart move actually. Granted there's no guarantee that CPE would win in court but stuff settling out of court happens all the time before lawyers are brought in and money burned.

[speedms6]

Personally on this issue, I believe there is a lot people don't understand. I have a degree in mechanical engineering from an ABET certified school and am currently in the process of getting ym masters in the same field. It just so happens I recently took a class called the legal aspects of engineering. The amount of different cases that can be applied to this situation are mind boggling. There are so many different ways to look at patent and copyright law it is unbelievable. So in summary, while people say Cp-e may not be able to take legal action, there are so many grey areas of the law, where a good attorney will be able to make a good case for them.

[Jujiro_Prodigy_31]

could it be that the competition between cp-e and rr became so fierce that cp-e has decided to completely obliterate their oppontent? could it be that instead of battling it out on the dynos and the track to determine who could make the most powerful ms3 or ms6 cpe decided to KO rr on what could be considered a technicality (knock-off dp's)? could this be a smoke screen, somewhat of a distraction or black-ball event so that cp-e could get more business, or at least so that rr would disappear?

maybe, maybe not. i really don't care. however, a warning to the next vendor that decides to take cp-e head-on. make sure u have your stuff straight legally or you won't stand a chance...

yes, i know, that should go without saying, but still....

[Darksun280]

Originally Posted by Jujiro_Prodigy_31 could it be that the competition between cp-e and rr became so fierce that cp-e has decided to completely obliterate their oppontent? could it be that instead of battling it out on the dynos and the track to determine who could make the most powerful ms3 or ms6 cpe decided to KO rr on what could be considered a technicality (knock-off dp's)? could this be a smoke screen, somewhat of a distraction or black-ball event so that cp-e could get more business, or at least so that rr would disappear? maybe, maybe not. i really don't care. however, a warning to the next vendor that decides to take cp-e head-on. make sure u have your stuff straight legally or you won't stand a chance... yes, i know, that should go without saying, but still....

No all's fair in love and war I feel so what RR did is fair game and cpe wanting to sue them is fair game too.

[felt]

Originally Posted by Jujiro_Prodigy_31 could it be that the competition between cp-e and rr became so fierce that cp-e has decided to completely obliterate their oppontent? could it be that instead of battling it out on the dynos and the track to determine who could make the most powerful ms3 or ms6 cpe decided to KO rr on what could be considered a technicality (knock-off dp's)? could this be a smoke screen, somewhat of a distraction or black-ball event so that cp-e could get more business, or at least so that rr would disappear?

Could it be that this thread wouldn't have existed if RR would have just been loyal to their members instead of lying to them?

Could it be that if RR would have built the "RR TUNED DOWNPIPE" themselves like they claimed to have had, this situation wouldn't have occurred.


.............Could it?

[Jujiro_Prodigy_31]

Originally Posted by Darksun280 No all's fair in love and war I feel so what RR did is fair game and cpe wanting to sue them is fair game too.

ya, i kinda like the idea of battling it out on the dyno instead of the court room peronsally. more fun that way!

i would like to go on record though, imo, in some ways i think this thread serves as a court room b/c it has the potential of hitting the bottom line either way. just as much damage if not more can be dealt on this forum than a court of law ever could...

haltech is the fair-minded judge, darksun is pretending to NOT be the prosecuting attorney, felt is the other prosecuting attorney, RR is self-represented, and myself and the others are playing the jury determining which one our money will and will not go once the verdict is decided...

lol ; )

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Jujiro_Prodigy_31 could it be that the competition between cp-e and rr became so fierce that cp-e has decided to completely obliterate their oppontent? could it be that instead of battling it out on the dynos and the track to determine who could make the most powerful ms3 or ms6 cpe decided to KO rr on what could be considered a technicality (knock-off dp's)? could this be a smoke screen, somewhat of a distraction or black-ball event so that cp-e could get more business, or at least so that rr would disappear? maybe, maybe not. i really don't care. however, a warning to the next vendor that decides to take cp-e head-on. make sure u have your stuff straight legally or you won't stand a chance... yes, i know, that should go without saying, but still....

You couldn't be more wrong. They are in two entirely different genres. they are are not competing for anything. this isn't a turbo kit vs turbo kit. CPE doesn't make one.

This is a company trying to cover for a downpipe similar to their design, sold by someone that clearly didn't make it claiming it as theirs. Understandable concern. I am waiting for this to happen to StreetUnit products.

[Smoker6]

Ah yes, and this is why this forum is called mazdaspeeddramas.org. Oh wait it's not? I would have never guessed...\

Oh well, I suppose it's good that it's handled in the open, so props to Haltech given the options.

[Jujiro_Prodigy_31]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark You couldn't be more wrong. They are in two entirely different genres. they are are not competing for anything. this isn't a turbo kit vs turbo kit. CPE doesn't make one. This is a company trying to cover for a downpipe similar to their design, sold by someone that clearly didn't make it claiming it as theirs. Understandable concern. I am waiting for this to happen to StreetUnit products.

don't be so naive my friend. look at some of the other threads where these two got into it. it is nothing more than good old fashioned hate. two organizations that are not competing with each other, be it conventional or not, dont treat each other that way. they both got stake in this thing, no matter how you look at it...

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Smoker6 Ah yes, and this is why this forum is called mazdaspeeddramas.org. Oh wait it's not? I would have never guessed...\ Oh well, I suppose it's good that it's handled in the open, so props to Haltech given the options.

At least we fuckin hash shit out here, instead of covering it up and sweeping it under the carpet like the other competing sites out there.

MSF is not a dictatorship, its a way of life.. a code.