Should the Next MazdaSpeed3 be Naturally Aspirated?

[xx5PEEDxx]

Originally Posted by jseams New Mazda3 MPS / Mazdaspeed3 coming in December - report This has to be a joke... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Kinda bitter sweet, if its true, it would be kinda nice to have the last of a good thing, if not, well I guess I will need to trade out!

[El_Diablo]

Thats a problem because?

[jambisgone696]

Since the separation, no more MZR for mazda. Everything belongs to ford and now called EcoBoost...

[Dmurray06]

Did I read a fuel economy post?

Seriously, NCE on fuel economy.

[Big_Burd]

Shit, and I just read in that article they compared it to an Si? dafuuuuuuq...

When I had my regular 3 with a CAI I would keep up with si's.. a very lightly modded 3 is in si category, also considering there's more shit drivers rocking those cars. It's why I laugh my ass off when Honda owners compare an ms3 to an si..there is zero comparison except fwd 4cyl

[Ziggo]

We don't care so much about fuel economy, but the manufacturer has to thanks to CAFE standards, which is why I doubt we will see another rotary.

Zigatapatalka

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by Ziggo We don't care so much about fuel economy, but the manufacturer has to thanks to CAFE standards, which is why I doubt we will see another rotary. Zigatapatalka

Im not sure how much Ford history you haz under your belt, but Ford was able to get the lightning to meet strict CAFE standards by lowering the compression and making it a "low emissions vehicle". That overrides the CAFE standards from what i was told.

[dubtastic]

Originally Posted by Haltech Im not sure how much Ford history you haz under your belt, but Ford was able to get the lightning to meet strict CAFE standards by lowering the compression and making it a "low emissions vehicle". That overrides the CAFE standards from what i was told.

Tip of the hat Sir! Your Ford knowledge is impressive!

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by dubtastic Tip of the hat Sir! Your Ford knowledge is impressive!

Well how else do you get a truck that gets 10 mpg to go into production? lol

[julienjj]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well how else do you get a truck that gets 10 mpg to go into production? lol

You say that it gives jobs to the american middle class to build it. Eh, you call the right people and you may even get a subsidie to design it !

[keymaster]

Originally Posted by Haltech Well how else do you get a truck that gets 10 mpg to go into production? lol

By selling very few of them and a lot of Fusion hybrids. A new MS3 will sell in small numbers, while hopefully Mazda will sell a lot of standard and diesel ones, so the average will (again hopefully) balance out in Mazda's favor.

[skeeter149]

i dont know crap about crap, but the days of low power light cars are gone, save for roadsters. long gone are the days of 140 hp 13x tq cars that weigh 25xx or less pounds. i just hope they dont do it, im sure it would mean less warranty issues for them and a big push for sky active, kinda like nissan putting the vq in all cars but no. it would be a shame, but at the same time the miata is loved by so many that if the balance is good it could be a hit.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by silvapain I don't know if Mazda designed our block... it has FoMoCo stamped on it. Same with most of the other vehicle's components.

Mazda L engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mazda_L_engine

http://www.examiner.com/article/is-f...mazda-disguise

I read the first paragraph, but they don't cite their sources Could be wrong I guess

[TRex]

Originally Posted by Haltech Yea, this is pretty spot on. But, out of fairness to Mazda, they are really the only ones still keeping true to their roots. The big boys look at trends and build vehicles for that trend. Trends only last a few yrs. Its like, they are constantly chasing the newest trend. Mazda and BMW stick close to their roots. How long has the 3 series been chased down?

agreed, my biggest love for mazda right now simply comes from them not giving up on the gasoline engine

everyone else is pushing into hybrids (and yes they are starting to go into it now a bit with the new loop stuff), and while that is good and all, there is still so much we can do with simple gasoline engine

mazda proved that with skyactive and achieved mpg ratings that rivals some hybrids

[NCspecV81]

Should the next whore you date have AIDS? Of course the fuck not.

[agentgordon27]

500+ members of MSF voted on that poll for turbo.

[grantmm]

If Mazda can make a N/A car that is as light as and out handles the legendary Integra Type R, then I have zero problems with not including a turbo. If that isn't the case, what's the point of losing power?

[neganox]

A diesel speed 3 would be sweet. Look at the BMW 335d. That thing was badass.

[surebOOst]

LONG LIVE THE TURBO SPEED 3

[Boosted Beluga]

What about a 2.5L inline 5 cylinder? Stroke would ether be the same or shorter then our current 2.3. So it will rev higher. Like the old Volvo 850s.

[Juyoung]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think their revving ability might be due to the fact that volvo used 2.0l or 2.3l straight fives in their old 850 turbo

Never mind they used 2.4l
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[Boosted Beluga]

Originally Posted by Juyoung Correct me if I'm wrong, but i think their revving ability might be due to the fact that volvo used 2.0l or 2.3l straight fives in their old 850 turbo Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 4 Beta

You sir are correct. It's a 2.3L but if you put larger pistons and a slightly longer rod then you can still rev to 7-7500 no problem. Maybe even if it was a 2.4L. Would be a monster.

[mituc]

Going back to N/A or even moving to diesel as the primary engine type for the future Mazdaspeed/MPS would be indeed a mistake. When people say or hear "MPS/Mazdaspeed" they think of a decent gasoline turbo engine that would allow then to shift their balls in the trunk in any gear anywhere above 3000rpm. A N/A engine will have to rev higher which will kill any low end performance and even though it may work very well on a track (assuming that it will be a high revving 2.5 making close to 250-260bhp), on street will lack that low end decent performance it has now.

They can just keep the 2.3 DISI (in the current form or a slightly different one, 2.0-2.2l) or turbo a 2.0 Skyactiv-G engine.
I would not mind to have the same power but some weight reduction would be welcome, and I'm not talking about reducing the weight with "a phenomenal 30 pounds", but at least 150 if not 200 pounds.
They could simply keep the current engine, fix every error in it as @Haltech said, and eventually make it rev higher and shift the torque curve with like 300-500rpm up in the rev range to take that monster torque away from where it results in wheel spin, we don't really need 280lb*ft as low as 2800-3000rpm, we only need like 200 there and we can use more later. This approach may also result in more power up top and match or come close to the upcoming Ford models and even the existing 45A AMG models (imagine a 300bhp 2.0DISI T engine in a lightweight FWD Mazdaspeed with less wheel spin than the current two generation!).
But no N/A or tractor engines as primary engines in this model, please!

[grantmm]

I'm down around the 2950 mark and I still want an additional 300 lbs dropped. I really want Mazda 2 weight from a Mazdaspeed 3.

[keymaster]

You're never going to get that in a car that is supposed to be a family car and legal for road use, at least not until carbon fiber is cheap. You have to be realistic about these things...our cars were not created as race cars, they were created to be sold to the public, and that limits what a company can make.

Mazdaspeed doesn't necessarily require a turbo either...the MS cars have all handled better and been faster than the regular cars. However Mazda gets there is a bit irrelevant, just as long as whatever MS they create is a "sensible rocket" it will be good. Personally, I think a turbo diesel AWD MS6 would be a killer car; make it stealthy like the MS6 but perform like a souped up European sedan, but keep it cheap and with good gas mileage, and they would sell well (presuming Mazda actually advertised them this time...).

[Juyoung]

Originally Posted by mituc Going back to N/A or even moving to diesel as the primary engine type for the future Mazdaspeed/MPS would be indeed a mistake. When people say or hear "MPS/Mazdaspeed" they think of a decent gasoline turbo engine that would allow then to shift their balls in the trunk in any gear anywhere above 3000rpm. A N/A engine will have to rev higher which will kill any low end performance and even though it may work very well on a track (assuming that it will be a high revving 2.5 making close to 250-260bhp), on street will lack that low end decent performance it has now. They can just keep the 2.3 DISI (in the current form or a slightly different one, 2.0-2.2l) or turbo a 2.0 Skyactiv-G engine. I would not mind to have the same power but some weight reduction would be welcome, and I'm not talking about reducing the weight with "a phenomenal 30 pounds", but at least 150 if not 200 pounds. They could simply keep the current engine, fix every error in it as @Haltech said, and eventually make it rev higher and shift the torque curve with like 300-500rpm up in the rev range to take that monster torque away from where it results in wheel spin, we don't really need 280lb*ft as low as 2800-3000rpm, we only need like 200 there and we can use more later. This approach may also result in more power up top and match or come close to the upcoming Ford models and even the existing 45A AMG models (imagine a 300bhp 2.0DISI T engine in a lightweight FWD Mazdaspeed with less wheel spin than the current two generation!). But no N/A or tractor engines as primary engines in this model, please!

It seems unlikely that they turbo the skyactive g, the compression ratio is already very high, but maybe yeah they could update their 2.3 disi and the stock tune since it can be pretty good on gas , I get way more than the advertised mpg depending on how I drive with a tune

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[Dash08]

Calm down fellas.

Mazda's been doing this awhile.

They're not gonna completely torpedo their flagship hot rod model.

All these rumors of a Mazdaspeed Si are just to stir the pot.

[El_Diablo]

Originally Posted by Juyoung It seems unlikely that they turbo the skyactive g, the compression ratio is already very high, but maybe yeah they could update their 2.3 disi and the stock tune since it can be pretty good on gas , I get way more than the advertised mpg depending on how I drive with a tune Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 4 Beta

The reasoning behind that is emissions. As you run the cylinders hotter you create a larger volume of NOx which is one of the reasons behind EGR. There are also a lot of other levels that can be increased by tuning and wouldn't fly as a street legal vehicle. Add to that the added fueling and low timing for added safety and you have the stock tune. OE's cant just tune and go like we do.

[wolly6973]

Originally Posted by spdandpwr Having come from the 8th gen Civic Si, I can say that N/A is equally as fun and is way more responsive stock for stock Also, my bolt-on si barely walked a genpu (on a highway run) that had an intake and a tune. Clearly N/A can hang. I think what makes Mazda so great is the overall package: power, handling, fit and finish, and value. This is why I ended up with a genpu. If Mazda can maintain those attributes, I don't care what they throw in the car, as long as it's similarly as fast as the current gen...no point in taking steps backward in terms of the performance -- that's for Honda to do.

How has nobody called out this brownie faggot yet?

If you believe that, you should go back to your Honduh dick sucking buddies and GTFO!

Also, you can't "barely walk" someone. Walking someone means you beat them easily.

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[zrob88]

1. Fix the 2.3 disi problems and offer a it up the same way as the current MS3 bu with a more useable power band and maybe 270 or 280 hp.

2. Offer a hopped up skyactive mazda3 or a diesel mazda 3 with a nice sporty suspension and looks, something maybe in the 200hp range just to annoy the honduh fags but still come in cheaper than the speed3

3. Offer an AWD turbo MS6 making somewhere in the mid to low 300 hp range


I would love to own a new mazdaspeed 6 if they ever do it.

[grantmm]

N/A will always better at equal power levels. That said, getting a NA 4 cylinder to the 270-300 HP range will not be easy or likely possible directly from an economy car manufacturer. This is why I brought up them being able to recreate what Honda did with the Type R. That vehicle STILL dominates in STX with a basic bolt on/coil set up. Taking the BMWs and RX8s head on and typically coming out on top or very close to the top.

Make it double front wishbone, drop the weight to the 2600-2700 range (should be much easier to do without the added weight from the turbo and associated hardware), and drop the power to the 200 - 230 range. I'd be very happy with that in a hatchback racer.

[GTISPEED3]

Maybe a high power/high mpg NA 6 cylinder engine that runs on 87 octane would be nice. AWD would be a huge help too. With as big as the speed platform is right now though, I do not think going away from forced induction would be a good move on Mazda's part.

[MacheteJames]

In a recent review of the 2013 Mazdaspeed3 (I think it was Automobile Magazine), a contact at Mazda USA asked the writer to include this line in the review: "You'll miss the torque steer when it's gone". IMO this points to one of three things: a new Ford Revoknuckle-style setup in a turbocharged 2.0L MS3 (unlikely), an AWD MS3 based on the CX-5 setup (possible, but unlikely due to a price point that would end up in STI territory) or an N/A Mazdaspeed3 based on the 2.0 Skyactiv motor. I'm actually a little worried that the third possibility is the most likely. The 2.3 DISI may be a beast, but it is done as a world engine for Mazda. The MPG is too low and the C02 per mile emissions are too high. As a result, the MPS is not a great value in European countries that have a C02 surcharge. It is what it is.

That said, they will effectively kill Mazdaspeed's legitimacy in the eyes of enthusiasts if they take the third option, because the high-revving N/A 4 cylinder niche is already filled by Honda. Mazdaspeed = forced induction rocketship versions of regular Mazda vehicles at an unbeatable price point. Period. They need to figure out how much their brand is worth to them vs the engineering expenses of an engine worthy of the reputation they've built.

[BigRedSpecial]

Originally Posted by MacheteJames In a recent review of the 2013 Mazdaspeed3 (I think it was Automobile Magazine), a contact at Mazda USA asked the writer to include this line in the review: "You'll miss the torque steer when it's gone". IMO this points to one of three things:

Or, he simply meant people will miss the character when every car is refined to the point of being completely soulless. People read too far into things.

[mituc]

I'm sorry guys, but I think it's time to forget about the 2.3 DISI Turbo. That's the ford duratec engine and it will be used only by ford.
A higher revving 2.0 or 2.5 is most likely but can't be branded Mazdaspeed/MPS anymore because it's neither a turbo 4cyl or a rotary.

Let's wait. I just hope they will turbo the 2.0 skyactive-g and release it with a lower compression ration.
We're basically facing the end of the Mazdaspeed as we know it and I just hope the upcoming model will be up to the current standards.

[el_guapo]

Originally Posted by mituc I'm sorry guys, but I think it's time to forget about the 2.3 DISI Turbo. That's the ford duratec engine and it will be used only by ford. A higher revving 2.0 or 2.5 is most likely but can't be branded Mazdaspeed/MPS anymore because it's neither a turbo 4cyl or a rotary. Let's wait. I just hope they will turbo the 2.0 skyactive-g and release it with a lower compression ration. We're basically facing the end of the Mazdaspeed as we know it and I just hope the upcoming model will be up to the current standards.

More reason to keep rebuilding when the vented block comes around.

Originally Posted by BigRedSpecial Or, he simply meant people will miss the character when every car is refined to the point of being completely soulless. People read too far into things.

Or it could mean that maybe Mazda is investing a little more money on better mounts?

[superdave2335]

to be honest i am content with the engine type. whether its gas or diesel it works. i do agree with the port injection comment though. these cars would be alot less of a hassle with port injection.

[spdandpwr]

Originally Posted by wolly6973 How has nobody called out this brownie faggot yet? If you believe that, you should go back to your Honduh dick sucking buddies and GTFO! Also, you can't "barely walk" someone. Walking someone means you beat them easily. Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

I hear you on everything. And my post after reading it, was a little strongly put.

Let's start with the good news: I won't be brownie soon -- waiting on my next paycheck (just put a good amount down on this car).

About my post, when was I saying anything good about Honda? I just said that N/A motors tend to be more responsive in stock form as compared to turbo motors in stock form. Maybe that's my unknowing opinion -- I've only had 9 cars to judge this from (two turbo, the rest n/a).

Finally, I'm saying nothing but positive things about Mazda! I love this car -- it's easily the best one I've driven. Why would I come on here to talk trash about a car I just paid to own (this is the first car that I've elected to finance because I fell in such love with it). I'M ON YOUR SIDE. Sorry if my post came off as otherwise.

And, about walking somebody -- well you're right. But, how would you explain a race when you're barely pulling on somebody.

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by spdandpwr I hear you on everything. And my post after reading it, was a little strongly put. Let's start with the good news: I won't be brownie soon -- waiting on my next paycheck (just put a good amount down on this car). About my post, when was I saying anything good about Honda? I just said that N/A motors tend to be more responsive in stock form as compared to turbo motors in stock form. Maybe that's my unknowing opinion -- I've only had 9 cars to judge this from (two turbo, the rest n/a). Finally, I'm saying nothing but positive things about Mazda! I love this car -- it's easily the best one I've driven. Why would I come on here to talk trash about a car I just paid to own (this is the first car that I've elected to finance because I fell in such love with it). I'M ON YOUR SIDE. Sorry if my post came off as otherwise. And, about walking somebody -- well you're right. But, how would you explain a race when you're barely pulling on somebody.

you would explain it by saying you barely pulled.

[wolly6973]

Glad you are coming around, but the main point of my post was that there is no way that a bolted civic beats a ms3 with an intake and tune.

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