ATP 3071 vs. 3076 & "new" iwg porting

[EwMPS]

Thanks for all the info guys. My GT30171 IWG (first lot from ATP) is coming off next week to remedy the IWG issue, now I have read all the reviews and saw the pics including this one.

I don't want to change the inlet and exhaust, can I safely say that I can get the engineer to machine as much out of the "half moon" as possible and not overdue the hole so that the flapper can still seal properly? Same as this pic I took of one of the threads?

[rodrigo]

be careful when u port the wg.... u can always take out more material but you cant put it back... that is the golden rule of porting.

I will quote what Christian from Cobb emailed me when we started encountering creep on my set up.

"the turbo will need to come off and you will need to hand port the WG hole and the corner entering the WG hole (smooth out that transition)."

if you look at my finger in these 2 pics that is the "corner" he is talking about. that and enlarge the wg hole itself...but no more than 1-2mm

mild porting into the entrance... (remember my finger represents material removed)



aggressive porting into the entrance...

[bmylez]

Same image, bro

[rodrigo]

fixed*

[bmylez]

Why wouldn't you just automatically do the aggressive porting? Bigger is better, right?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Dude, if you drive like that, you should def go 3076. I remember reading a post of DJ's a long time ago when he had the 71, and he said "I wish I went 3076 at least." After I drove Skate's 76' I was like, okay I need this, for sure. The fasted ride I've owned was a built 71' Nova SS 396 w/ 4:11 gears set up for drag racing. I never hit the track, but my buddy says I could've run 12.0 all day in that thing. I was 19 at the time. Had some "quick" cars since then, but the Nova was a lot to handle (front disc, rear drum, probably pulled .5 on the skidpad, LOL). So, I def wouldn't want to skimp. That, and I drive like you for the most part, perhaps mashing the pedal a bit earlier, but not much bc of the rods. That's the beauty of the 76'.... you don't hit full boost till 4K, but once you do, you better have that right mitt on the shifter, and the left foot ready to mash the clutch in, because it just screws. I may be heading 76' sooner than I thought. Some financial difficulties of late are leading towards dipping into some reserve funds to pay off my car, and some other pressing debt. I may rape out a few more coins for the 76', but only after the 1st 2 CPA exam parts are done. I'm hoping for a May install. Lots of shit going down tho, so don't hold me to that.

Hmm... I just have to see what turbo's the most efficient for my goals of 350-380 AWHP. I'm definitely going T3 just unsure on a 3071/3076 and A/R for a 18-20psi setup..

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by bmylez Why wouldn't you just automatically do the aggressive porting? Bigger is better, right?

bigger isnt better. i however will not pretend to know how much is too much.... what I do know is that it isnt recommended that u enlarge the hole too much.....

every change u make has positive and negative effects.... in a perfect world one would start with 1mm off the wg hole and the 1st picture porting..... depending on how the car reacted. you would leave it be if it was solved... or move on to 1 more mm and the aggressive porting in pic 2 etc etc....

the truth is that NO ONE knows how much to take off.... anthony took some out....but his mods are different than mine....u cannot assume that his turbo would react the same....so in the end u have to do changes until u find the results that work for YOUR set up.

now on the flip side if u take too much out.... u could perhaps cause the turbo to over spin when trying to hit boost targets because the wg is too large....

best way is always to change in the smallest possible increments...always

[bmylez]

To me, it seems like just because the IWG *can* flow a lot doesn't mean it will be open full bore.

How is it any different than running a Tial MVS, which I have seen people run 250whp with it or 500whp with it. It's not like you have to restrict the wastegate even though it can flow a fuck ton of air.

[rodrigo]

open it to 4 inches then man...what do u want me to tell u.

u can have a huge wg... and still perhaps achieve the desired boost.... but, consider that sometimes to overcome too large of a wastegate the turbo has to spin faster than needed to make the same amount of boost with the proper wg size... this is called longevity and efficiency....

can u run a larger than needed wg? sure... but whats the point?

[bmylez]

Yeah, in the end, I suppose it's better to take off just a little material and have to pull the turbo again instead of porting too much and....having to get a new housing, haha.

Obviously IWG and EWG work a little differently. That's why, like I said, you can run a 38mm EWG and run at a lot of different power levels. A 38 won't give you problems at low boost or high boost, within reason.

[rodrigo]

for what its worth christian @cobb wanted for me to take pics of the turbo pre ported and post.... but i wasnt willing to yank it out .

i have a buddy that might be buying one for his ms3 and asked me to port it, when I do i'll post pics and send to cobb as well..... christian wasnt very happy that ATP is still sending out turbos with less than optimal hardware....but ehhh

[EwMPS]

Thanks

[dougefresh_]

Crap. Now me thinks I may put the 76' on hold and go ewg :/ :/ :/ I wish ATP would get their shit together with the porting/machining >

[rodrigo]

in reference to that.... keep in mind the larger the turbo the higher the creep psi turns out.... its not a coincidence that my 3071r stops creeping once I set it to 21psi.... I can only imagine an ATP 76 will creep until u set it to 23 or so.....

[Alpha]

I'm holding tight for CP-Es T3 kits. A T3 3071 would OWN even a 3076 ATP turbo everywhere in power and spool up.

[rodrigo]

yeah...if u are willing to invest in the time and fabbing and everything else I agree.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by lenny127 yeah...if u are willing to invest in the time and fabbing and everything else I agree.

It's a full kit playa!

[dougefresh_]

Originally Posted by Alpha It's a full kit playa!

Got a linky on here w/ info on CPE's kit? I couldn't find anything on their website yet...

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by dougefresh_ Got a linky on here w/ info on CPE's kit? I couldn't find anything on their website yet...

Their current production is no secret... They've been targeting a February/March~ release. They even posted it up on the CP-E site a little while ago.

TONS of big and new development for the MZR in 2011!

[rodrigo]

now....apply said info and factor in the passenger/tranny mount release date vs what was anticipated and u will understand Alpha here will be running ATP3071 by March lol

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by lenny127 now....apply said info and factor in the passenger/tranny mount release date vs what was anticipated and u will understand Alpha here will be running ATP3071 by March lol

Haha! NO SH&*! I hope you're wrong, but I don't mind waiting I suppose. We all know that's what it'll take.

[dougefresh_]

yeah, considering I had to wait almost two months for my CPE hpfp, I won't be holding out for whatever they come out with. It's all hot air and inflated prices, lol. I say that sporting a bunch of their shit too, haha. They usually make good stuff, but it's pricey, and is often out of stock.

[FreeFlyFreak]

Originally Posted by Alpha I'm holding tight for CP-Es T3 kits.

Subbed for out of this world prices

[hnda etr]

any decision doug?

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Alpha TONS of big and new development for the MZR in 2011!

I think you should say 2012....this is CPE after all.

it will be something like this...

one and I mean one kit will be available and sold mid year of 2011...then they will be "out of stock" the rest of the year....


werd

[paveltol]

Why don't you guys go for a BNR stage 3 turbo? Isn't it aggressive enough for you? Garrett is great for sure, but it really needs a lot of stuff to be modified while BNR turbos are bolt on to stock manifold&piping.

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by paveltol Why don't you guys go for a BNR stage 3 turbo? Isn't it aggressive enough for you? Garrett is great for sure, but it really needs a lot of stuff to be modified while BNR turbos are bolt on to stock manifold&piping.

While those are attractive traits of a S3 BNR, it'd have to be pushed pretty hard to make even limited power. Granted, we may pick up 40 AWHP, but the price to do that isn't cheap for modest gains. I'd like to run less boost, net cooler BATs, and make more power with something larger TBH. 350 AWHP is a common goal for most of us.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by paveltol Why don't you guys go for a BNR stage 3 turbo? Isn't it aggressive enough for you? Garrett is great for sure, but it really needs a lot of stuff to be modified while BNR turbos are bolt on to stock manifold&piping.

what do u consider a lot of stuff?? one inlet and a straight 3 inch coupler??? cuz thats all u need.

[paveltol]

Originally Posted by lenny127 what do u consider a lot of stuff?? one inlet and a straight 3 inch coupler??? cuz thats all u need.

Really bolt-on? What about the manifold&downpipe?
Are you talking about the ATP 3071/76?

Alpha, do you have the Stage3?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by paveltol Really bolt-on? What about the manifold&downpipe? Are you talking about the ATP 3071/76? Alpha, do you have the Stage3?

I'm on the stock K04 awaiting a true solution. Hopefully CP-Es kit.

[801MS3]

Im guessing these "kits" from cp-e are going to be in the $3k range... Thats a lot of dough.

You (alpha) jumped ship on the whole atp idea pretty quick.

Don't you already have a manifold and dp?

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by 801MS3 Im guessing these "kits" from cp-e are going to be in the $3k range... Thats a lot of dough. You (alpha) jumped ship on the whole atp idea pretty quick. Don't you already have a manifold and dp?

I've never really liked the ATP hotside and have been shooting for a real 3071R, just waiting for a full solution to arise.

I have a catted DP, but that's the only thing I'll really have to sell. Held off on a manifold for this very reason.

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by paveltol Really bolt-on? What about the manifold&downpipe? Are you talking about the ATP 3071/76? Alpha, do you have the Stage3?

ATP kits can be used with stock mani and dp... would u want to?? probably not...but i wouldnt run the BeaNeR3 without dp and mani either....

ATP kits are 100% bolt on.... matter fact i got the 4 inch inlet so thats why i had to go cpe inlet.... u can order it smaller and they provide a reducer.

if you get a good deal on an ATP there is no way the BNR is the better deal...

by the way, if I floor my ATP 3071r at 2900 I can hit full boost (22psi) by 32-3300rpm

but everyone can make their choice.

[paveltol]

Originally Posted by lenny127 ATP kits can be used with stock mani and dp... would u want to?? probably not...but i wouldnt run the BeaNeR3 without dp and mani either.... ATP kits are 100% bolt on.... matter fact i got the 4 inch inlet so thats why i had to go cpe inlet.... u can order it smaller and they provide a reducer. if you get a good deal on an ATP there is no way the BNR is the better deal... by the way, if I floor my ATP 3071r at 2900 I can hit full boost (22psi) by 32-3300rpm but everyone can make their choice.

what is wrong with the stock intake and exhaust manifolds?
mind you, this is my DD car

[hnda etr]

Originally Posted by paveltol what is wrong with the stock intake and exhaust manifolds? mind you, this is my DD car

Neither flows air as well as aftermarket solutions... basically, why would you upgrade your turbo and let it be choked when breathing or exhaling?

[rodrigo]

Originally Posted by paveltol what is wrong with the stock intake and exhaust manifolds? mind you, this is my DD car

when u modify a car u have to use some type of logic behind the sequence of modifications.


going up in turbo size and not upgrading supporting mods for the turbo is just simply a waste of that turbos potential. kind of like getting a 400hp motor for drag racing and using stock rubber.....

in the end its your build so do what u feel u must, but I would think that when a larger turbo is installed it is for the purpose of running it at its peak or near peak performance, and that wont be accomplished with stock supporting hardware.