Cld12pk2go's ATP GTX3071 Build

[cld12pk2go]

Car: 2008 MS3


Man Toys arrive:





Close ups of GTX3071:





















Since I do not want any creep, I decided port my internal wastegate so I should be able to run spring (14 PSI) pressure if I want/needed to.

Step 1 is just remove the retaining clip so I can disconnect the Wastegate from the flapper:





Then remove the six 13mm bolts to allow the turbine housing to come off:








Surprise! I have the freaking crescent moon impeding flow through the internal wastegate. It 4.5mm of a flow obstruction. Wastegate port is right at 25mm diameter at the flapper. I will definitely be grinding this out as it is probably costing ~15% flow area.




Difficult to see here, but the flow certainly has a torturous path to get to the wastegate port. Lots of material on the right can be removed to smooth the sharp turn the exhaust will require to navigate to escape.








I inked around the flapper and found it was pretty far from centered on the wastegate port. Also since the flapper has been welded together, I cannot remove it to maximize the porting. In general it is good practice to have ~1-2mm of metal for the flapper to seat upon. On the left side and top, this means very little material can be removed.








Another pair of pics of the 4.5mm crescent lip:








After porting. Right wall was pulled out quite a bit with a smoothed radius to offer a less sharply curving path for the exhaust. Eliminated 4.5mm crescent. Opened up port from 25mm to ~26mm.

























My SWAG is that this porting will likely result in 20-25% more flow potential.

I haven't ported anything in about 4 years. I forgot how much fun it is. Perhaps I will port the Intake Manifold before long. :phillyb:

So the one thing I haven't found a definitive answer for yet is do I need an oil feed restrictor? The Banjo orifice is only about 0.090'', but that is a lot larger than the ~0.065'' I often see used as a restrictor.

[cld12pk2go]

So on to the install...


Since some people strip the threads on the oil return line to oil pan, I looked and realized that not much of the stock bolts actually go in. So I replaced them with the following from Home Depot to add ~5mm more threaded depth.

Edit: It turns out that the stock bolts grabbed in further than I thought at first. So I decided to use them as there is a small chance longer ones could interfere with rotating parts in the engine, which would be some nasty fail indeed. I torqued them down to 75 in-lbs (middle of the torque spec range) and all is well. I think where people must screw up here is simply over torquing these resulting in stripped treads. 75 in-lbs is just 7.25 ft-lbs, which is easy to greatly exceed.





Poor dead K04 looks like a munchkin:













Doing the Lenny Mod on the turbine support bracket:












Lots of room in here without the turbo...

Edit: If anyone is doing this, make sure to replace the coolant hose with the vise grip on it with another (high quality silicone) hose that is about 18'' long while the turbo is out. The stock line will not be long enough and it is not fun to fix this later.





Here is where I ended up for the night:



Turbo is connected to DP, but is setting lower than final height since the DP is loose. Coolant supply and return are connected to the turbo.

I noticed that the silicone hose supplied with the turbo is really too big for the coolant hard line connection. It did seal with the hose clamp very tight (with no fluid pressure), but I was surprised that it appeared to be a poor fit.

Issue #1: One of the bolt heads on the turbine housing is interfering with the oil supply banjo. It simply will not fit. This isn't a big deal as I will just have to remove the bolt and grind it down about 0.5mm to gain the required clearance.

[cld12pk2go]

So here is the turbine bolt prior to grinding. It is ~5/32''.




After grinding it was down to approx half:




Lots of clearance gained:




Banjo installed on the first try in about 5 seconds so there was definitely interference prior to grinding as I fought it for probably 5 minutes without luck before.

I torqued it down to 15 ft-lbs as it was smaller than the coolant banjos that the workshop manual says to torque to 17-26 ft-lbs. For some reason, the manual doesn't appear to provide the oil banjo torque.



My protege garage v1 exhaust manifold has actually held up great since the March 08 install. No weld cracks or signs of leakage.



11/32'' hole drilled to prep for tapping for the EGT bung:



1/8'' - 27 NPT tap:



EGT bung threaded in:






Issue #2: Here was my situation with respect to the supplied oil drain line length. The hose was simply too long to have any chance to attach.

For those in industry that work with "flex hoses", they understand that short, thick "flex hoses" are actually very stiff/rigid (large bend radius) and thus will kink before flexing very much. Such was my situation as the hose was just grossly too long to have any chance to force it to fit as delivered.

These pics are with the exhaust manifold tightened down and the turbine to exhaust manifold tightened down (turbo in final position):










So on to modifying the oil drain line...my rough estimate was that the line was a little over 2'' too long; however, since this is my daily driver and going too short would totally "hose" my getting to work the next day, I elected to start 1.5'' short knowing I can always go shorter if needed.

Step 1: unscrew outer compression fitting:



Step 2: pull off inner compression fitting



Step 3: Measure and mark



Step 4: Apply 4 wraps of duct tape



Step 5: Chop saw






Step 6: Remove tape to show awesome clean cut



Step 7: Now the hard part.

Start by twisting in the hose into the inner compression fitting. I found a reference online that suggested counter clockwise would be the preferred direction of spin after failing miserably the first 3 attempts to get the outer compression fitting installed without backing out the hose from the inner fitting. Going CCW when installing the inner fitting seemed to keep the hose ID from collapsing such that the outer fitting would actually squeeze inside vs. just pushing back.

However, I also learned that I should apply 4-5 drops of oil around the perimeter of the hose inner diameter and coat the outer fitting thoroughly as well around the same time.

I am not sure which was more important (oil or spin direction), but the bottom line is that it was a piece of cake after these two technique changes.




Hose back together:



As it turns out I needed to go shorter to have any chance to get the hose installed. So next I removed another 0.5'', which was still too long. I then cut another 0.25'', which worked (total 2.25'' removed); however, the hose would have been a better fit with another 0.25'' removed (2.5'' shorter in total).

Now to install the shorter hose. It was simply impossible for me to install the hose to the turbo with the gasket on from under the car using one arm and do three things at once (hold hose, align gasket, install bolts); however, I figured out a very simple way to overcome this issue:




By using the pair of rubber bands to hold the gasket in an aligned position, I could with one hand lift the hose up with the Allen wrench in a single bolt and get it started. I then ripped out that side's rubber band with some needle nose pliers and then did the other side.






Success! In total, I probably burned 3-4 hours on the hose to make sure I got it right. I can understand if ATP is making the hoses a little long since it is possible to shorten but not lengthen the hose, but it seems like many people are finding them grossly long as was my situation.




Issue #3: So this coolant line comes from ATP with 3/8'' blue silicone; however, the engine's metal connector is sized for 5/16''. So I got a barbed fitting and stepped it down. I have no clue why ATP has a size mismatch here.




Issue #4: Other coolant line was extended as well. I would strongly suggest to anyone doing this to replace the stock rubber hose here when the turbo is out with one about 18'' long and cut to fit at this stage instead of have to fight it under the car with coolant raining down on you like I had to. That sucks.




There was some interference between the clutch cables and Wastegate/coolant line, so I added a Velcro wrap to buffer. TBD how well this holds up to the temp in the region. (edit: it has held up without issue for ~1.5 years)



So after getting all the oil/water lines hooked up I installed the modified turbine support bracket. I simply pushed upwards with ~10lbs of force when tightening the bolts so as to preload the bracket against the turbine and take some of the load off of the exhaust manifold.



Hot side back together:




Protege Garage 2.5'' SS Turbo Inlet Pipe with 2.5'' to 4'' coupler:

Coupler is found here:

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...dc3078397eaa15





Issue #5: Heater core coolant line wants to occupy the same location in space-time as the TIP...



I obtained an extra 1/2'' by not having the hose all the way on the metal connector and replaced the spring clamp with a very tight hose clamp. This coupled with torqueing down the TIP at an angle away from the hose allowed me to get things together; however, I would be greatly concerned that under WOT the engine could move enough to pull this hose right off as the hose is still bound against the TIP.

The current plan is to get a 3/4'' to 3/4'' barbed fitting and extend the hose a few inches to alleviate this concern.



Edit: I got the 3/4'' to 3/4'' barbed fitting and extended the hose about 2.5'' and now the hose is out of the way.







All back together. The 2'' to 2.5'' 45° bending reducer I ordered from siliconeintakes.com worked great. I tapped into in for my boost source.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...30438387126263




EGT sensor installed:





If I had to do it over again I would raise the location of the sensor by ~1/2'' as the current location makes it slightly inconvenient to get at one nut on the exhaust manifold to turbine connection; however, it only slowed me down by ~3 minutes.

Remaining tasks:

1.) Modify coolant line to heater core (waiting for Fastenal to get the part (tomorrow). (Completed, pics posted above)

2.) Fix boost gage sensing line. I accidentally yanked the 1/8'' Nylon line very hard when reinstalling the battery box and now it flatlines at 5 PSI, when the AP shows be going up to ~10 PSI. So it is evidently cracked somewhere. (Completed, details in next post, nylon boost line was shattered)

3.) Finishing installing the EGT gage. I still have to do all the electronics for the EGT, as of now the harness end is just secured around the ECU.

4.) Confirmed Issue #6: I have the 10 PSI WGA instead of the 14 PSI WGA my kit should come with.

That is it for now. It is raining here for the next few days. I will likely investigate the boost control tonight and the other 3 on Saturday.

[cld12pk2go]

I am installing one of these (STRi DSD SLM II EGT: Farenheit):

STRi DSD SLM II EGT : FARENHEIT


So here is my old boost sensing line that goes to the boost gage, which I suspected was busted and in need of replacement.



I duct taped on my new boost sensing line (1/8'' Nylon) to the old one and also about a foot later to my EGT sensor wire:




Pulled through without too much effort:



Mounting the EGT's reset button after drilling a 7/16'' hole (worked out very well):





The installation wiring per the instructions are as follows:

Red Wire - 12 Volt Constant: Using F75 (Passenger door lock)

Orange Wire - Ignition (12 Volt power when ignition is on): Using F43 (Cigar lighter)

Yellow Wire - Light Switch (12 Volt), Illumination: Using F82 (Dash Illumination)

Black Wire - Ground: to body

My EGT gage isn't lighting up unless the head lights are on in the above configuration after the wake up sequence.

I used my multimeter to verify that F75 is a constant 12v source (shows 12v with key off, key on, lights on), F43 only has 12v when the ignition is on, and that F82 only has 12v when the head lights are on.

During my EGT wake up it briefly goes full bright, so I am thinking there is likely something wrong with my EGT head unit. I will have to follow up with the vender on that.


For the time being I altered the wiring configuration to the following:

Red Wire - 12 Volt Constant: Using F75 (Passenger door lock fuse)

Orange Wire - Ignition (12 Volt power when ignition is on): Using F43 (Cigar lighter)

Yellow Wire - Light Switch (12 Volt), Illumination: Using F43 (Cigar lighter)

Black Wire - Ground: to body

So now at least the unit is lite up in a dimmed state all the time when the ignition is on.

Final configuration:

[cld12pk2go]

So after fixing my heater core issue I figured it was time to go get a few WOT logs to see what the boost control looks like.

I started with my T2 tune, which basically pulls 5° from 3000-7000 RPMs from my previous map, and targets very low boost/load. WGDC table was maxed at 35% from 3000-7000.

This resulted in the following:







So basically, WGDC is going up to ~50% yet I am still at 11-12 PSI. Looks like I will have to remove the wastegate actuator and apply more preload.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/23/11 Update:

These pulls were on my V109T5 tune. It would appear that with the 10 PSI WGA, the WGDC needs to be in the ~60% range before it really starts increasing boost hardly at all. It then appears to increase relatively rapidly. Mid 60's appear to be good for ~15-17 PSI.






Peak EGT on these runs was 1630°F.

Looks like this turbo is going to reach full boost around 3200-3300 RPMs, which is very sweet.

I am obviously having some boost oscillations. I believe it is being caused by my tune as the WGDC appears to be unstable. I was using my K04 load dynamics, which appear to be overly aggressive with the new turbo.

The Virtual Dyno results are very encouraging compared to my best K04 log since the tuning has barely begun:



The car feels like it wants to do a Saturn V impersonation at WOT (just keeps pulling hard). Feels awesome. The turbo makes a delicious sound as well.


V109T5 Load Dynamics and WGDC tables:






V109T6 updates:




Hopefully, these tweaks will help settle out the boost control.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/24/11 Updates:

V109T6 still had boost oscillations; however, I had them eliminated by V109T7 through more changes to the boost/load dynamics tables.

The tables that corrected my boost oscillations are show below:






I started to increase my load targets in V109T8 and this resulted in my smashing right through the 400whp level on the first pull.

The car just pulls amazing up top compared to the K04, and I am still on low boost and -5° timing.

Peak EGT was 1590°F on this pull. Logged g/s peaked at 358, which is actually about 320 g/s after backing out the 12% MAF adjustment.




I think I might have been on a slight downhill slope at the end of the pull as the power seems excessive for my tune. Future pulls will help clarify how it shakes out...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10/24/11 Afternoon Edit:

Unfortunately, I couldn't take this to redline as this was on perfectly flat road, but I am thinking more like ~370 whp is likely were I am now. 433whp has to be a ways off...



Peak EGT was 1600°F.


My best K04 pull overlaid with today's two pulls:


What is awesome is that I am running about 1-2 PSI less boost up top and getting about 40g/s more flow than with the K04. This is obviously because of the epically lower pre-turbine back pressure with the much more freer flowing turbine side compared with the K04.

I wish I had K04 EGT data, but I wouldn't be surprised if I am probably 200°F cooler now than I was with the K04.

So on tap for tomorrow is taking the load targets up 0.10-0.15 to see what that nets me. I still have about 40 g/s before I peg my MAF sensor up top...

When I get close to pegging it, I suppose it is time to work on timing.

[cld12pk2go]

10/25/11:

So this is what I got with the increased load targets in V109T9 (targeting 2.4 load up to 5500 RPMs (effective 2.15 load) and tapering to redline):


EGT peaked at 1610°F.




Pull was on a perfectly flat road. Torque is now back above 400ft-lbs and power is still increasing above 6000 RPMs, but I would have to say that the 433 whp run is certainly looking anomalous.

Actual MAF g/s are up to 330 g/s.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/26/11 update.

My tune is not responding to my request to target higher loads up top (2.3 target at 6500, but it is still going to 2.1). Ah the black box of the stock boost/load control...it seems as though there are some other load target tables or something.

Boost targets are 23 PSI (several PSI above actual), and all load target tables call for the same loads, but the WGDC is simply not rising to meet them. Fun.

If I don't get some change on the next tune, I might revert to selecting "Use Abs. Load Target Table (Boost Control)" as I know that will at least give me the load I request...I will just then have to rely on the throttle tables to modulate load in lower gears...







Best K04 vs the first pull today:



I am closing in on the limits of the 10 PSI WGA I received with my ATP kit (WGDC ~90%). I should have the 14 PSI WGA heading my way soon to alleviate this issue.

My next tune will also add back 1° from 3000-7000.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

10/30/11 update

So I have decided to abandon the stock boost/load control for the "Use Abs Load Target Table" strategy as I have been frustrated with not achieving my load targets up top.

So this is my first tune with the new strategy...

v109T14 Load targets ( had to cut load targets below 4500 RPMs since no traction in colder weather):




v109T14 Ignition Targets:




Achieving load targets FTMFW!





VD vs best K04 log:




Time to start increasing load (V109T15):



And timing (V109T15):



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Halloween Update:

More timing and load really makes a huge difference on power...




VD versus best K04 pull:



Max EGT was 1600°F on this pull. Actual MAF is 340 g/s (~45 lbs/min). I only have about another 20 g/s of capability prior to pegging the MAF sensor. I will likely try to add ~10 g/s and then work on timing more. I am up to ~85% on my injector duty cycle, so I don't have a great deal more room running the E35.

400 whp is pretty nuts. I love it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11/3/11 Update

It appears that I have squeezed all I can out of the 10 PSI WGA. Here is one of my logs plotted out on the GTX3071 compressor map (assuming max of 2 PSI DP across FMIC and 1 PSI depression in intake...both scaled linearly with massflow):



This turbo is simply an awesome fit on our engines...


I will plan on installing the 14 PSI WGA sometime in the next week or so to see if I can manage another 10-20 g/s up top...

[cld12pk2go]

1/11/12 Update:

So I slacked off on updates over the holidays, but lots has been going on.

I replaced my worn tires with some 215/45ZR -18 Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 XL. These have excellent grip. I am holding a considerable amount of torque prior to spinning in 4th now. As a note, my VD plots dropped over 20HP after the tire change alone (larger diameter and heavier tires I suppose).

I replaced my 3'' CP-E CAI and 2.5'' PG TIP with a 3.25'' CP-E MAF and 3'' Nviscid TIP. This seems to have freed up a considerable restriction.

I also tightened my WGA arm 4 turns to resolve my not being able to reach my desired boost/load targets prior to pegging out my WGDC. This seems to be working very, very well. I was able to do this by simply removing the clip and loosening the nut. I could then spin the WGA arm (barely could rotate it without wacking the DP or firewall, but it can be done.

I haven't yet had a reason to try to install the 14 PSI WGA, which would be a epic PITA as the less intake restriction coupled with the 4 turns appear to provide enough headroom for me to probably run more than I will ever attempt.







The Nviscid TIP was a little bit of a challenge to get to fit on the turbo mainly related to the metal coolant line, but it wasn't a huge deal (like 15 min of wangling with it). The big MAF fit quite well with my Meth tank. I was worried that it might present a big issue, this that didn't materialize.


I have also been doing extensive boost tuning to try to get around the Load Cap V2™. I won't detail everything, but I am now on my 15th revision and have been inching up the boost levels. I specifically am aiming for a reverse taper to try to keep load relatively steady.

I did try as high as the following on my BEC table in my V10 tune:



But I found that it resulted in a long range oscillation in WGDC (very odd compared to load control that moves quickly over a much shorter time period to effectively control load). It is almost like the PID loop has way too much ID and no P when in boost control.




Here is my pull from yesterday:




And from today:



Peaked at 400 g/s, which is actually about 357 g/s (~47 lbs/min) after backing out the 12% fudge factor in the MAF curves for E85.


VD of these two logs:




I am currently using the following boost/load control tables in V15/16:



I cut the WG Duty Load Error Limiter - High limit from 20 to 10 since this appeared to be causing the overshoot on spool up.

I am looking at targeting ~400-425 ft-lbs of torque as far out as I can hold it prior to running out of fuel. I am currently at ~95% duty cycle around redline.

I have pulled 2-3° up top from what I was previously running as I want to be conservative prior to going to a dyno and hunting for MBT.

The car plain rips. Love it.

V16 will add another 0.5 PSI up top...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

02/07/12 Update.

I am playing with the new tables in ATR and I have also cut back to 5 gal E85/tank (~E30 ish), which required pulling about 2% from my MAF curves.

I did this to try to get around the WGDC pull and throttle close up top. While it looks like it is still wanting to shut the fun down up there, I did squeeze some more out.




And the power is getting sick:




That is my best K04 log vs. this morning's pull. Of course the K04 pull was with severely worn tires. The new tires caused approx a 20hp shift down which makes the gap between the two larger that the VD plot suggests. These pulls were on the exact same stretch of road.

[cld12pk2go]

Placeholder 7

[cld12pk2go]

Placeholder 8

[cld12pk2go]

Placeholder 9

[cld12pk2go]

Last Placeholder

Feel free to post.

[vbt101]

good shit dude. @superskaterxes, @RichieRichness and I just installed one of these puppies on my MS3 last week. tune is a work in progress, but I can tell already it's a monster. The install went really, really, really, really, well for us, so hopefully you have the same experience.

[801MS3]

Good stuff man!

Really exited for you! Can't wait to see what comes out of this.


p.s you're going to love it!

Pps... i would suggest looking into a SS coolant return line as well.. makes life a lot easier.

[SleeperHatch]

@vbt101 how long did the actual install take from start to finish meaning u were able to start and drive the car again?

Sent from my Epic Win Avatar

[rfinkle2]

Bump for oil feed orifice question. (as seen in OP)

@eric@edgeautosports should know. He has done a few of these now.

Cld12pk2go, I don't think I have to tell you that I wish you the best of luck with your set-up.

Thanks for all the help, and I hope it comes back to you in terms of big HP (and torque) lol.

[cld12pk2go]

Today's updates posted.

[Nataphen]

The top banjo bolt was a nightmare on Alan's gtx71 install. We finally got it, but it wasn't easy.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by Nataphen The top banjo bolt was a nightmare on Alan's gtx71 install. We finally got it, but it wasn't easy.

Any tips? Or do I just need to cuss louder?

[801MS3]

Once the turbo is supported by the bracket and is sitting where it should, it will be easier.
The hardline if your not paying attention when you pull the ko4 out will bend and be a pain to put back on.

Easiest way I found was to use your left arm under the mani to hold/push the hardline in place and thread bolt I. With the right hand.

Good luck man. You'll get it.
Did you end up using the stock coolant return line?

[kmac]

I like , I like good job buddy . It's going to go nice with that and one of your nice tunes.

[bmylez]

I know that triplejumper had to grind down the turbine housing bolt to fit the oil feed. Some do, some don't. Kinda luck of the draw.

[Chimmike]

Most of us have had to grind down that turbine bolt. I had to. Lenny tried to say it was installer error, but I physically could not get the banjo close enough over the hole to thread in the bolt. I popped that turbine bolt off, took about half off on the bench grinder and put it back in, voila, banjo bolt went in.

I'm not fond of the re-use of the stock coolant hardline OR the oil feed hardline and I'll probably be replacing those. Also, i dunno about yours but my oil drain line was maybe 1"-2" too long and it's turned so much I'm afraid it's close to being kinked.

And, don't know about yours, but my IWG vac port is protruding on those metal-wrapped lines, whatever they are.

Oh, and I tightened down that silicone hose to the coolant hard line, but it looks like i am getting some leaking there with engine movement (shouldn't be any, I have rear inserts and SU side mounts).

One thing I did was install the downpipe studs AFTER lining up the downpipe, having the turbo bolted on the manifold first. Good ole' alternator being within 3/4" of my downpipe, heh.


Ultimately, I think we'd do well just removing that whole goddamn coolant hardline that goes over the trans there and replacing it/moving it somewhere.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by chimmike Most of us have had to grind down that turbine bolt. I had to. Lenny tried to say it was installer error, but I physically could not get the banjo close enough over the hole to thread in the bolt. I popped that turbine bolt off, took about half off on the bench grinder and put it back in, voila, banjo bolt went in. I'm not fond of the re-use of the stock coolant hardline OR the oil feed hardline and I'll probably be replacing those. Also, i dunno about yours but my oil drain line was maybe 1"-2" too long and it's turned so much I'm afraid it's close to being kinked. And, don't know about yours, but my IWG vac port is protruding on those metal-wrapped lines, whatever they are. Oh, and I tightened down that silicone hose to the coolant hard line, but it looks like i am getting some leaking there with engine movement (shouldn't be any, I have rear inserts and SU side mounts). One thing I did was install the downpipe studs AFTER lining up the downpipe, having the turbo bolted on the manifold first. Good ole' alternator being within 3/4" of my downpipe, heh. Ultimately, I think we'd do well just removing that whole goddamn coolant hardline that goes over the trans there and replacing it/moving it somewhere.

Thanks for the info.

I will probably but an adapter piece on the coolant line to neck it down to the proper size since I don't want to have any leaks.

I will also go ahead and grind on the bolt head as I am 75% sure it is interfering and it won't hurt anything to shave it down.

[JacksonMS30]

Originally Posted by cld12pk2go Any tips? Or do I just need to cuss louder?

Cussing louder helps! But you will need to couple the louder cussing with stuffing a rag in your socket. The rag holds pressure down on the banjo bolt and will help you get the threads started.

My turbo didn't require grinding of that bolt next to the oil feed, but I ground a negligible amount off anyway (just thought that was the problem) before @DingoDave saved the day with his rag in socket trick.

[Chimmike]

rag in socket trick? sounds like he's familiar with a monthly bleeding cycle.........

[Ckmazdaspeed3]

I had to grind my bolt on the 2871 and iirc Joel had to on his 3076, but I may be thinking of someone else... We spent like an hour and a half trying to get that fucker in before grinding cuz it looks like it lines up.

After grinding, it took like 30 minutes or so... I think that bolt is the single most difficult part of the install unless you have really little hands.

[RichieRichness]

Originally Posted by SuperSpeed3 @vbt101 how long did the actual install take from start to finish meaning u were able to start and drive the car again? Sent from my Epic Win Avatar

5.5 hours from the time we showed up till completed...driving around D.C. and eating Chipotle by the 6th hour.

[cld12pk2go]

I ground down the bolt head and got the oil supply line installed in about 5 sec. No rag in socket required. No question there was interference.

Anyone know the torque spec on the oil feed banjo? It is smaller than the water banjos, which call for 17-26 ft-lbf in the manual.

I just torqued down to 15 ft-lbf unless I hear something better.

[Chimmike]

15ft-lbs sounds good. I didn't torque mine down, I just hand tightened them because I foolishly didn't install the water lines til after the turbo was in the car.

Lemme ask you, did your banjo feed bolt seem small compared to the opening of the banjo itself?

[Lex]

Sticking to the stock MAF housing for this?

Are people still experiencing creep without the WG porting?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

All I did was clock the housing just a hair and the oil feed went on with ease. Also in post 2 at the end you talk about the coolant silicon thats supplied to to connect to the hard line its supposed to connect to the egr coolant port.

[Chimmike]

Originally Posted by Lex Sticking to the stock MAF housing for this? Are people still experiencing creep without the WG porting?

Mine looked to be better than his from ATP. I wonder if they have different guys 'porting' them at ATP and one is familiar with the issue while the other is just a douche?

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport All I did was clock the housing just a hair and the oil feed went on with ease. Also in post 2 at the end you talk about the coolant silicon thats supplied to to connect to the hard line its supposed to connect to the egr coolant port.

1.) I really didn't have the option to clock it enough without adjusting the compressor side as well. Grinding the bolt was a much simpler option with the turbo partially installed.

2.) The silicon hose supplied with the kit appears to be 3/8''; however, the proper size to mate up with the EGR hardpipe is 5/16''.

So far it appears that I have identified 4 items that make this bolt-on kit a bit of a PITA.

The two listed above, plus:

1.) my oil drain line is ~2'' too long so I am going to have to cut it

2.) the other water line will not reach the stock bent hardpipe as it is about 1.5'' too short so I am going to have to modify it.


None of these are show stoppers, but of significant annoyance.

[EdgeAutosport.com]

coldpack use your other stock water hardline it is about 2 inches longer and just has to be bent to fit correctly without any modifications.

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by chimmike 15ft-lbs sounds good. I didn't torque mine down, I just hand tightened them because I foolishly didn't install the water lines til after the turbo was in the car. Lemme ask you, did your banjo feed bolt seem small compared to the opening of the banjo itself?

I am not sure I understand your question. The oil supply orifice appears to be ~0.090'', which I am currently assuming is to minimize flow to the turbo so as not to over pressurize the ball bearing housing with oil.

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport coldpack use your other stock water hardline it is about 2 inches longer and just has to be bent to fit correctly without any modifications.

You mean the one that was on the other side of the stock turbo?

[EdgeAutosport.com]

ive also done serveral swaps and never have seen the oil return be too long. something doesnt seem right.


yes exactly. i just cut that tab off cause i didnt need it and yeah it works perfect.

[SleeperHatch]

Originally Posted by RichieRichness 5.5 hours from the time we showed up till completed...driving around D.C. and eating Chipotle by the 6th hour.

Is that with prior experience swapping turbos?

[4G63]

Really happy for you man! You have helped A LOT of people, from what I've read, go fast and do some big things (11cruzito11 comes to mind) and it's a exciting to see you getting there too

Good luck on the build man best of luck.

















SHIT'S ABOUT TO GO DOWN

[cld12pk2go]

Originally Posted by eric@edgeautosport ive also done serveral swaps and never have seen the oil return be too long. something doesnt seem right. yes exactly. i just cut that tab off cause i didnt need it and yeah it works perfect.

All I can say is that with the exhaust manifold (PG v1) flush against the head with 4 bolts tightened down and all 4 bolts on exhaust manifold to turbine tightened down, the oil line is simply too long. I will post pics later. Several other people have indicated they have had to chop it off by a similar amount on their installs.

Swapping the hard water line might be a total PITA now; however, if it looks doable I will give it a shot. Else, I will just extend the hose to it.

Tks for the help.

[Chimmike]

Yeah cldpk, my oil drain line was/is too long. I wasn't able to modify it. I'm not impressed with the hardware used to secure the drain fitting to the turbo. A ball end hex socket already partially stripped one of them on me.

I mean, the oil feed banjo bolt itself, compared to the size of the actual banjo, it seems to me the only thing keeping the top of the banjo from leaking is the copper washer since it's a larger diameter than the bolt/bolt head. I.e. compare the stock turbo feed bolt to the ATP bolt....atp is much smaller, but still uses the larger opening of the stock banjo itself.

Oh, and I had to use the longer stock hard water line as eric@edge said, but NEITHER of the stock coolant lines (soft lines) would reach any water connection, so I had to go buy some heater hose for that.

All in all.......I think ATP half-assed it. Give us two new water lines, give is better fittings, and a new oil feed line.