engine build need advice!

[bigturbo3]

hey msf, i am going with an engine build and big turbo and would like you help to make sure i make the right choices, i have done alot of research and just want to make sure i have it all down

so here is what i have so far:
Cobb bov: $265.00
CP Pistons: $550.00
Carrillo A beam rods: $790.00<-- going with these i think
Carrillo H beam rods: $920.0
Cometic HG: $100.00
ARP Headstuds: $145.00
ARP Mainstuds: $98.00
Cobb 3 port: $105.00
Cobb FMIC: $985.00
GT2871: $1,680.00 <--changing this to gtx3071r
Externally wastegated turbine housing: $380.00
Tial 44mm wastegate: $359.00
Turbo XS test pipe: $165.00
autotech internals: $339
and i also just picked up a brand new fuel pump also
total part $5,600 roughly<--- all pricing was from my builder
and this is where my research came in on the little stuff.

3x crank pully washers
2x cam washers
thrust washer
crank pully seal
Crank flywheel seal
16x valve stem seal
32x valve locks (optional)
5x flywheel bolts
Oil pickup o-ring (optional)
Oil pickup (optional)
Oil strainer (recommended)
Oil pump (recommended)
Oil chain
oil chain guide(s?)
Timing chain
timing guides (2 different ones)
Timing tensioner
Dcr vvt (recommended)
Cometec/oem head gasket
Thermostat
Injector seals (recommended)
Injector stud kit (optional)
Pcv
OEM Crank Pulley Bolt
i had my timing chain,vvt and all timing parts changed 10k ago by the dealer so not sure if i need to replace that since its only been 10k.

well guys please let me know what you think i will be going green very soon so dont worry i got that covered since that the most important part to my build

oh and i will also get the injector seals, and all jbr motor mounts as well

[phate]

You can reuse a lot of stuff from your old engine. There is a thread almost exactly like this posted by theurgy from a day or two ago.

[helmetface]

Go 38mm WG for a 3071r

Also, save yourself the hassle and get a 90 -AN fitting to use in substitute of the 45 that is supplied with the oil return for the ATP hotside.

[captain slow]

Edgeautosport can hook you up with an ewg gtx30 kit. Comes with wastegate, dump pipe, oil lines.

You'll also need big turbo TIP.

[phate]

Dang man, you could at least give @06Speed6 some credit for that list you "researched":

Originally Posted by bigturbo3 [INDENT] and this is where my research came in on the little stuff. 3x crank pully washers 2x cam washers thrust washer crank pully seal Crank flywheel seal 16x valve stem seal 32x valve locks (optional) 5x flywheel bolts Oil pickup o-ring (optional) Oil pickup (optional) Oil strainer (recommended) Oil pump (recommended) Oil chain oil chain guide(s?) Timing chain timing guides (2 different ones) Timing tensioner Dcr vvt (recommended) Cometec/oem head gasket Thermostat Injector seals (recommended) Injector stud kit (optional) Pcv

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 3x crank pully washers 2x cam washers thrust washer crank pully seal Crank flywheel seal 16x valve stem seal 32x valve locks (optional) 5x flywheel bolts Oil pickup o-ring (optional) Oil pickup (optional) Oil strainer (recommended) Oil pump (recommended) Oil chain oil chain guide(s?) Timing chain timing guides (2 different ones) Timing tensioner Dcr vvt (recommended) Cometec/oem head gasket Thermostat (recommended) Injector seals (recommended) Injector stud kit (optional) Pcv Maybe more im not thinking of, im tired.

From: Checklist of parts for forged engine rebuild

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by phate Dang man, you could at least give @06Speed6 some credit for that list you "researched": From: Checklist of parts for forged engine rebuild

Rofl that cracked me up

I also have the part numbers in my part number thread that is stickied in the ms6 engine subforum.

[bigturbo3]

yes sorry that list was from 06speed6

[Juliandlr1004]

I have all my parts already. Here is my list:
Overhaul gasket set
Cometic head gasket (if over boring)
Arp head studs
Arp main studs
Front oil seal (overhaul comes with one)
Rear main seal
Rod bearings
Main bearings
Crank pulley bolt
Thrust washer
Friction washers
Cam friction washers
Egr delete(if you dont have one)
I got weisco pistons
I got k1 rods

Also going gtx3071r so i also got:
Stratified 3 port ebcs
Cpe big turbo inlet
Cpe big maf housing
Bosch 3 bar map
3 bar map pnp harness
Cpe injector seals
Going to buy a treadstone intercooler (you can get any upgraded one)
And going to buy a stage 3 clutch

The turbo im getting comes with the tial ewg and dump tube. Go with edgeauto. Speak with alan or jp. Tell em aj referred you. They will hook you up big time.

And thats assuming you have a cobb ap, down pipe, hpfp internals, exhaust

[bigturbo3]

THANKS FOR THE INFO, IS ALL THAT STUFF NECESSARY OR DEPEND WHAT THE CONDITIONS ARE WHEN THE MOTOR GETS TAKING APART? I KNOW SOME THINGS ARE A MUST LIKE THE CRANK BOLT AND STUFF LIKE THAT, JUST TRYING TO SAVE A LITTLE ON THE BUILD IF I CAN BUT I DONT WANT TO CHEAP OUT EITHER

[Jh8909]

Originally Posted by bigturbo3 THANKS FOR THE INFO, IS ALL THAT STUFF NECESSARY OR DEPEND WHAT THE CONDITIONS ARE WHEN THE MOTOR GETS TAKING APART? I KNOW SOME THINGS ARE A MUST LIKE THE CRANK BOLT AND STUFF LIKE THAT, JUST TRYING TO SAVE A LITTLE ON THE BUILD IF I CAN BUT I DONT WANT TO CHEAP OUT EITHER

Don't you yell at me.

[Juliandlr1004]

Go with my list bro...im not sure if im allowed to discuss what prices i got

[bigturbo3]

i just called jp so he will be helping me out, thanks for the info

[Voltwings]

The carillo rods are twice as expensive as the K1's and the K1's are every bit as good for making useable power... thats whats in my engine, just saying. The K1 / wiseco is a very proven set up on this platform, dont fix what aint broken (no pun intended in regards to blown motor...).

[Juliandlr1004]

Originally Posted by Voltwings The carillo rods are twice as expensive as the K1's and the K1's are every bit as good for making useable power... thats whats in my engine, just saying. The K1 / wiseco is a very proven set up on this platform, dont fix what aint broken (no pun intended in regards to blown motor...).

Im glad to hear that. My rods are on back order :/

[bigturbo3]

with the egr delete, i know you can check off that code but will it make any problem as far as inspection?

[Juliandlr1004]

Not sure. Barely gonna do mine

[Voltwings]

well i have an EGR delete and a catted DP. Bought a catted DP so i would pass inspections, but after talking to a few people COBB turns off the "catless DP" code on all base maps anyways... so basically even with a catted DP the computer will read as catless. I'll be getting an inspection in the next few days and if i pass ill try to remember to post here haha.

[StayBroke]

it depends on the state.

I no nc cars can have one not ready.

So if i have a egr delete and a catless downpipe i will have 2 not readys.

so what i do is put my egr back on before i get my inspection and i pass.

[Volcom8190]

Originally Posted by Matrix311 I'm kind of looking at building my engine up as well. My car will be paid off in the next few months so i'll have some extra money to build up the engine. What would you say the average labor cost is to do the engine build? I'm talking just labor, not the cost of parts. I contacted 1 shop here in Phoenix and they quoted me $10,500 installed with parts. I thought that seemed a little high to me.

That seems really high, I know a shop around here that would swap out an engine for around 1200$ + parts. Yet again though, it all depends on what crap you are putting into the bottom end.

Originally Posted by StayBroke it depends on the state. I know nc cars can have one not ready. So if i have a egr delete and a catless downpipe i will have 2 not readys. so what i do is put my egr back on before i get my inspection and i pass.

NC inspectors are required to lift the car and check for the presence of a cat also, among other things like wheel bearings. You can always weld a shell on the outside of the dp.

[StayBroke]

Originally Posted by Volcom8190 That seems really high, I know a shop around here that would swap out an engine for around 1200$ + parts. Yet again though, it all depends on what crap you are putting into the bottom end. NC inspectors are required to lift the car and check for the presence of a cat also, among other things like wheel bearings. You can always weld a shell on the outside of the dp.

lol, i no people so that does not matter lol.

[Matrix311]

I'm kind of looking at building my engine up as well. My car will be paid off in the next few months so i'll have some extra money to build up the engine. What would you say the average labor cost is to do the engine build? I'm talking just labor, not the cost of parts. I contacted 1 shop here in Phoenix and they quoted me $10,500 installed with parts. I thought that seemed a little high to me.

[Voltwings]

Originally Posted by Matrix311 I'm kind of looking at building my engine up as well. My car will be paid off in the next few months so i'll have some extra money to build up the engine. What would you say the average labor cost is to do the engine build? I'm talking just labor, not the cost of parts. I contacted 1 shop here in Phoenix and they quoted me $10,500 installed with parts. I thought that seemed a little high to me.

WAY high. Granted i know the guy doing mine, but he is still running a business so its not like he's cutting me a super deal and my quote was $2500. thats build + clutch, i want the head ported and any machining will be extra of corse.

[Matrix311]

Originally Posted by Voltwings WAY high. Granted i know the guy doing mine, but he is still running a business so its not like he's cutting me a super deal and my quote was $2500. thats build + clutch, i want the head ported and any machining will be extra of corse.

So $2500 seems about right to me, thats the price I had in mind. I will certainly shop around. This is just a shop another local mazda club uses for dyno days and such. We have LOTS of options here in Phoenix with lots of great shops, i'm not to worried about finding better pricing because i know it's out there. To save on the money I could pull the engine myself and bring it to a shop for them to do the work, that would probably save me even more money. I was just curious what everyone else has paid so i can get an idea of the standard costs and maybe use that as part of the price negotiation.

[phate]

You could build an engine right, for about $2500 if you pull it yourself. That includes machine work, forged rods and pistons, and the few small pieces that are necessary.

[Juliandlr1004]

This guy is charging me $500 for labor excluding machone shop prices

[silvapain]

I have an excel file with a parts list including part numbers & cost in my build thread. The URL is in my sig.


Tapadatass

[bigturbo3]

all my parts come out to like $5500-6000 and i was told the total build would cost me like $7500 maybe 8 at the most... and thats with machine work and a few other things

[Juliandlr1004]

Originally Posted by bigturbo3 all my parts come out to like $5500-6000 and i was told the total build would cost me like $7500 maybe 8 at the most... and thats with machine work and a few other things

Sounds to me like you are getting but raped lol

[bigturbo3]

Originally Posted by Juliandlr1004 Sounds to me like you are getting but raped lol

why do you say that?

[silvapain]

Originally Posted by bigturbo3 all my parts come out to like $5500-6000 and i was told the total build would cost me like $7500 maybe 8 at the most... and thats with machine work and a few other things

I had to buy a new block and had the machine shop build my shortblock for me, and my total cost was only ~$5500. You can certainly get it done for cheaper than me.


Tapadatass

[bigturbo3]

Originally Posted by silvapain I had to buy a new block and had the machine shop build my shortblock for me, and my total cost was only ~$5500. You can certainly get it done for cheaper than me. Tapadatass

well if you look at my part list it comes out to 5,500 so how much should the labor cost?
1. Bore up to 0.20 over
2.Plate hone up toe 0.20 over
3.Vinny’s own plateau hone
4.Line hone main cap
5.Deck Block
6.Radius oil holes/Micro polish crank
7.Remove Galley balls, flush crank & install set screws
8.Balance entire rotating assembly
9.Resize rods for additional clearance
10.File fit rings to bore

PARTS
1.Hand finished C.P. pistons, rings 8.5:1 compression with
thermal barrier coating option, locks & 866 tool steel pins
2.Carrillo “SA” rods
3.ARP main stud kit
4.ARP Head Stud kit
5.A.C.L./Calico coated main bearings
6.A.C.L./Calico coated rod bearings
7.New thrust washers
8.GTR skyline factory head gaskets

STAGE I CYLINDER HEAD
1. COMPLETE FULL RADIUS COMPETITION VALVE JOB
2.REFACE ALL STOCK VALVES
3.LAP ALL VALVES
4.MILL/DECK 2 CYLINDER HEADS
5.INSTALL VITON VALVE SEALS
6.INSTALL jim wolf SINGLE VALVE SPRINGS
7.REASSEMBLE BOTH CYLINDER HEADS
8.ADJUST VALVE CLEARANCE
9.MILD PORTING ON IN/EX TO BLEND SEAT TO PORT
10.HONE VALVE GUIDE TO SIZE

this is what will be done and some step are for an nissan engine but you get the idea

[Juliandlr1004]

Thats why the price is so high

[bigturbo3]

why what would you say shouldnt be done, i feel like if i am going to do this might as well go all out and have it done the best way and make sure its done right plus it also include a tune and free oil changes on them and 1 year warranty.

[magicka]

Originally Posted by bigturbo3 why what would you say shouldnt be done, i feel like if i am going to do this might as well go all out and have it done the best way and make sure its done right plus it also include a tune and free oil changes on them and 1 year warranty.

Part of the difference is that you're starting from scratch, so you included $1800 or so in things like the FMIC and pump internals in your build price that most people already have done. What shop are you using? How much experience do they have tuning our cars?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Forum Runner

[Juliandlr1004]

Id buy supporting mods, rebuild pistons and.rods, slap on a gtx3071 and call it a day. Build the head when you plan on going 600+hp

[bigturbo3]

i am having vinny ten racing shop in long island build it, i know some people dont like him but i have had him tune my car before and he know what he is doing and does very good work. and yes the parts are what is making the prices so high i think the labor and machine work and stuff will be around 1500 maybe less it depends you know

Originally Posted by Juliandlr1004 Id buy supporting mods, rebuild pistons and.rods, slap on a gtx3071 and call it a day. Build the head when you plan on going 600+hp

if you read my op i am buying supporting mods, and some things will be different that what was on the list becasue some of that was meant for a nissan, i do not believe the head will have alot of work done other then clean valves and stuff like that, no new valves or springs or nothing

what should labor be around on a build like what i have posted just labor

just checked he said it should be around 6k-7.5k for the total build

[phate]

Check out my build threads, they outline the machine work performed for a brand new block build, and a used block rebuild. Silvapain used the same machine shop and all 3 came out to ~$1k for everything (including main/rod bearings).

Most race shops don't do their own machine work, so there is a mark up on whatever they have done. I've worked with Vinny tens guys one time and had a good experience - I did a remote tuning session there for a NY guy.

IDK anything about their engine building expertise, though. I would definitely make sure they have done these engines before, because they have some uncommon aspects. Unless you're going for >5-600hp, you probably don't need to do anything to the head except recondition it (valve job, seals, milled flat).

[Juliandlr1004]

Man shops up there are crazy expensive

[silvapain]

IMO, the head should be inspected for valve guides, seals, and bent valves when doing an engine build.


Tapadatass

[bigturbo3]

he told me he has not done an ms3 engine before, i was like hmm, but i do trust him and im sure it will be fine, is there anything i should make him aware of on the build? he has been building motors sine the 80's and hes an master technician,cobb certified.