5th/6th port injection

[maddocx240]

I'm looking for feed back from those on Here running a port injection setup. How reliable has it been? That's what I really want to know. Seems like a good option for more fueling, but not sure on how reliable it would be with a daily driver. I'm thinking to upgrade to bnr s4 next summer and port injection crossed my mind.

[zjnspeed3]

@Justin@Freektune;

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by maddocx240 I'm looking for feed back from those on Here running a port injection setup. How reliable has it been? That's what I really want to know. Seems like a good option for more fueling, but not sure on how reliable it would be with a daily driver. I'm thinking to upgrade to bnr s4 next summer and port injection crossed my mind.

@Ziggo; has been running 5th port for years now.

[Justin@Freektune]

Originally Posted by maddocx240 I'm looking for feed back from those on Here running a port injection setup. How reliable has it been? That's what I really want to know. Seems like a good option for more fueling, but not sure on how reliable it would be with a daily driver. I'm thinking to upgrade to bnr s4 next summer and port injection crossed my mind.

Its a very reliable setup. Just make sure your wiring is legit, and you get a solid tune. Then it will work flawlessly IMO.

http://www.freektune.com/collections...port-injection

[Micha]

I use 6th port on my speed 6 and it is awesome.

Actually getting the balls and parts together to run 2000 CC injectors in mine.

*shrug*

Whats the worst that can happen?

[maddocx240]

Originally Posted by Micha I use 6th port on my speed 6 and it is awesome. Actually getting the balls and parts together to run 2000 CC injectors in mine. *shrug* Whats the worst that can happen?

im looking to see if anyone had the fuel controller fail, or you know issues that some have with meth like the injector not spraying.

[dale_gribble]

wont hurt to run an afr failsafe.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by maddocx240 im looking to see if anyone had the fuel controller fail, or you know issues that some have with meth like the injector not spraying.

Originally Posted by dale_gribble wont hurt to run an afr failsafe.

Old thread I know, but this one needs some love

I'm thinking of going with the AEM AFR fail safe, along with the Speed Perf6rmanc3 Secondary Injection kit because it comes with the in tank pump and high quality hoses.

That kit looks like it comes with more stuff, but for less as compared to the other kits. Anyone have any reviews on this kit?

Just like the OP mentioned reliability is important, hence the fail safe.

But aside from all that, I like the idea that a cooling effect can be had in the intake manifold (similar to WMI) which will reduce the probability of knock, along with the fact that high Injector Duty Cycles can be brought way down, which will improve in cylinder atomizing (basically taking some load off of the stock injectors).

Now with 6th port we have two 1000 cc injectors before the throttle body, and only one injector with 5th port. So obviously 2 injectors will provide more fueling.

Since I plan on going this route soon, I'm reading as much as possible and want to make sure I'm understanding it.

From what I've read the Split Second Controller gets inputs from all 4 ignition coils to determine when to fire the injector(s), and uses a Maf voltage input to determine how long to keep them open in milliseconds (Injector Pulse Width - IPW).

The injector(s) should be configured to fire every 180* of crank rotation in the R4 software, which is why we use 4 ignition coil inputs (180* x 4 = 720* which is a 4 stroke cycle).

The fuel map is adjusted using the R4 software and uploaded to the controller.

Once primary R4 settings are set to fire every 180*, we only modify the Injector Pulse Width at a given RPM vs Maf voltage cell. The higher the IPW, the more fuel that is delivered. But as RPM's increase the injection window becomes smaller, and the IPW needs to be reduced (correct me if I'm wrong on that).

Of course since low side fuel pressure may vary, modifications to the Fuel Map may be required if AFR targets are slightly off.

That's what I understand so far about 5th/6th port setups but I still have questions

The in tank fuel pump in the kit is a DW65c (265LPH). Is that pump sufficient for maxing out both 1000 cc/min injectors along with the 4 Direct Injectors without issue? (I don't plan on maxing out either but I'm curious).

Also when using both injectors as compared to one, are they fired simultaneously, or do they alternate between injections?

If they fire at the same time, I'd assume that each IPW would be half the IPW of using only one injector.

Please enlighten me!

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 The in tank fuel pump in the kit is a DW65c (265LPH). Is that pump sufficient for maxing out both 1000 cc/min injectors along with the 4 Direct Injectors without issue? (I don't plan on maxing out either but I'm curious). Also when using both injectors as compared to one, are they fired simultaneously, or do they alternate between injections? If they fire at the same time, I'd assume that each IPW would be half the IPW of using only one injector. Please enlighten me!

That pump should be adequate given. However, I have seen many complaints about higher than average failure rates with the DW pumps. If your worried about reliabilty/safety part # NX15718 can be wired in series with the boost control solenoid to limit you to wastegate pressure if your fuel pressure drops.

The injectors are batch fired, all injectors will spray at the same time, for whatever IPW you program. One thing to remember with the kits that do not use a pressure regulator is that the fuel pressure will not increase as boost increases so the effective max flow rate of your 5th/6th port setup will decrease as your boost increases.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by SSinstaller That pump should be adequate given. However, I have seen many complaints about higher than average failure rates with the DW pumps. If your worried about reliabilty/safety part # NX15718 can be wired in series with the boost control solenoid to limit you to wastegate pressure if your fuel pressure drops. The injectors are batch fired, all injectors will spray at the same time, for whatever IPW you program. One thing to remember with the kits that do not use a pressure regulator is that the fuel pressure will not increase as boost increases so the effective max flow rate of your 5th/6th port setup will decrease as your boost increases.

Thanks that's awesome, so if low side fuel pressure drops below 25 psi, the switch will open and prevent the ebcs from being energized. It says it's rated for 60 psi max. Doesn't the low side fuel system generate higher pressures than that which could damage the switch?

So does that mean if low side fuel pressure is about 50 psi and I'm targeting 25 pounds of boost, when the injectors open there would be 25 psi acting on that 50 psi of fuel pressure hindering a good spray pattern?

How much pressure do these injectors need to spray correctly?

Can a regulator be fitted to that small fuel rail and tapped into the return on the hpfp?

I noticed that on the Kozmic kits, fuel to the aux rail is tee'd off of the feed to the hpfp, but with the SP63 kit fuel is passes through the aux rail first, and then out to the hpfp.

So idk if a fuel pressure regulator would work on the SP63 kit because that would essentially starve the hpfp.

What do people do to combat that issue? And which in tank pump is good? Thanks a lot eh

[SSinstaller]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 Thanks that's awesome, so if low side fuel pressure drops below 25 psi, the switch will open and prevent the ebcs from being energized. It says it's rated for 60 psi max. Doesn't the low side fuel system generate higher pressures than that which could damage the switch? So does that mean if low side fuel pressure is about 50 psi and I'm targeting 25 pounds of boost, when the injectors open there would be 25 psi acting on that 50 psi of fuel pressure hindering a good spray pattern? How much pressure do these injectors need to spray correctly? Can a regulator be fitted to that small fuel rail and tapped into the return on the hpfp? I noticed that on the Kozmic kits, fuel to the aux rail is tee'd off of the feed to the hpfp, but with the SP63 kit fuel is passes through the aux rail first, and then out to the hpfp. So idk if a fuel pressure regulator would work on the SP63 kit because that would essentially starve the hpfp. What do people do to combat that issue? And which in tank pump is good? Thanks a lot eh

The switch will trigger between 25 and 60 psi, thats not max operating pressure. The low pressure side operates around 65psi.

Boost in the manifold effectively lowers the fuel pressure at the nozzle. The minimum operating pressure will vary, but most are rated for flow at 43.5psi.

You could install a regulator with either companies kit, but the regulator needs to be installed so your 5th port setup and the oem hpfp see the higher fuel pressure, with the regulators return running back to the tank.

Plenty of people have done the 6th port kits without using a regulator.
With 1000cc injectors even at 25psi of boost you'll have effectively 35-40psi of fuel pressure, which is still over 90% of the injectors rated output.

All the brands have bad batches, pick a pump that will fit and flow what you need.