Boom!

[LenSpeed6]

So last night my engine popped...

Background:
Bought the car private sale late aug/early sept. Previous owner didn't know if cam actuator was ever done on it, so the grand scheme was to do the timing set sooner then later to avoid what happened to my best friend, were the actuator let go taking out the head.

Fast-forward to now:
Bought the timing set from Edge, take apart the car, put everything in... Add used JBR intake with new filter for good measure along with intercooler hoses. Put everything back together start the car and it purrs like a kitten, life is good. Since the purchase of this car and knowing the fact that its unknown about the cam actuator I took it easy on it until now, now its time to see what the car feels like at about redline...
Take off easy in 1st then give it the beans! Shift 2ed, this is pretty sweet! Shift 3rd only stay in it for a second then shift 4th to slow down... Car acts unusual and then the oil light comes on... Shut off immediately, coast to side of road... Trail of fresh engine oil with a puddle forming under it... Awesome. Push the car to my Uncle's house that happened to be down the road, park it, get a ride to get my other vehicle.

I work half days at my main job on Fridays so I go to investigate, car won't turn over, I found nice aluminum fragments on the belly pan right off the bat... Sweet! there must be a nice hole somewhere! take the belly pan down look up... nothing obvious... huh this is weird. At this point I have access to limited tools but took the intercooler off then pulled the plugs which all looked good which leaves me confused. Going to tow the car to my parents house to use my fathers lift again to further investigate.

That being said if I do need a block my best friend has a car he bought with an over heated motor that I can rob the block out of baring the block is still good.

The thought now is to never have this happen again so I was thinking of Manley rods and possibly Wiseco pistons even though I don't plan on putting a big turbo on this car I just cant see putting stock stuff back in at this point.

I know I will address that issue tonight when I actually find something.

And to add to this awesomeness I found the rear diff mounts were on there way out, hence why I took off nice in 1st, but previous to this event I just ordered both SURE mounts... yay

[dale_gribble]

Anyone buying an MS6 should add the cost of a new motor when buying one regardless of mileage. I know some make it up to higher mileage, but the majority lose compression in #3 and or grenade like yours.

[MazdaspeedKills]

Originally Posted by dale_gribble Anyone buying an MS6 should add the cost of a new motor when buying one regardless of mileage. I know some make it up to higher mileage, but the majority lose compression in #3 and or grenade like yours.

Can't agree more with this comment. My '06 MS6 has 122k and is burning a quart of oil every 800 miles as a result of low compression cyl 3. Financially, I find it difficult to justify rebuilding the motor for a body that has rust eating the hood and the rear quarters. Just not worth the investment.

Fact remains, all turbo motors regardless of manufacturer have durability issues. That's why my next car will be N/A.

[Fstrnyou]

If losing compression on #3 and/or grenading are my only options, then I guess the pin is pulled on mine, cause compression is good. I've been keeping my eyes peeled for deals.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou If losing compression on #3 and/or grenading are my only options, then I guess the pin is pulled on mine, cause compression is good. I've been keeping my eyes peeled for deals.

Indeed, however you should address the clogging of the oil rings which is unavoidable. Same for the intake valve clogging.

[LenSpeed6]

Haven't taken a picture yet but with a mirror we found a hole behind the starter so... its either cyl 3 or 4 that got it, my father and I are semi-zing that the oil pump wasn't really happy.

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou If losing compression on #3 and/or grenading are my only options, then I guess the pin is pulled on mine, cause compression is good. I've been keeping my eyes peeled for deals.

My compression was 175 across the board. Stock motor blew a hole in it in 1st gear while I was slowly accelerating at 5mph. Car didn't have any issue/problem/anything of the sort that made me think the rod in cyl 3 would explode into about 5 pieces, piston cracked into 4 pieces, balance shaft destroyed, and blew a hole in the back the size of a hand, and blew a tiny hole in the front of the motor also.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if there was something that went wrong with the balance shaft, and that's what took the motor out.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by g00s3y The more I think about it, the more I wonder if there was something that went wrong with the balance shaft, and that's what took the motor out.

LSPI.

[djern]

Originally Posted by mituc LSPI.

it does sound like LSPI but usually thats accompanied with high boost low rpm scenario's

[mituc]

Originally Posted by djern it does sound like LSPI but usually thats accompanied with high boost low rpm scenario's

Not necessarily. 1st/2nd gear or low part throttle acceleration in any gear after moving with a constant speed and rpm at low load is where LSPI occurrences blew all engines.

[Fstrnyou]

Holy crap! I just watched a video of a Vauxhall Opel and what they claim was knock/ping when I searched for LSPI. That's the same crap my car was doing way back when it was stock and the reason I bought versatuner in the first place. I was getting crazy KR for no apparent reason...or so I thought at the time. It would spit and sputter and make that same noise in the video and blow black smoke because of Knock enrichment.

[MSMS3]

A good tune will minimize the risks of LSPI damage (but not totally eliminate it). Tunes that build high torque above 300 ft pounds at low rpm are not good for this engine and are largely just for dyno queen bragging. Tunes should be softer until 3,500 rpm before ramping up the power. A red line upshift or even an upshift at 5,000 rpm will always cause you to fall back comfortably above the low rpm danger, so there is little benefit in having crazy high torque at or below 3,000 and a lot of risk.

Even on stock tune these engines can blow if you get heavily into boost below 3,000 rpm. The damage is cumulative, so the boom might happen when just cruising with light throttle inputs.

[Fstrnyou]

My "LSPI", if that's what it was, went away when I nerfed my WGDC tables to zero at 3k and below. I left 3.5k and up as they were. Basically running spring pressure on the K04 until 3k, then it would ramp up on its way to 3.5k. That's the last time I had experienced it.

But now there appears to be new oils that should "help" with LSPI. GM's test has created a new specification called "Dexos1 Rev2" or something like that.

[Say Chi Sin Lo]

WELP,

This thread just made me look at my nearly 100,000 MS3 very differently

[g00s3y]

I wish my car was acting up before, throwing codes, blowing smoke... Something that would have told me something was wrong. I had no issues at all before it happened, other than the injector seal going bad about 5 months earlier. But I replaced all of those with CS seals,compression was good after reinstalling, and car ran perfectly.

Here's some pics of the damage.

Funny thing is (hahaha... I guess?) the crank was in perfect condition other than the gear for the balance shaft.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by g00s3y Here's some pics of the damage. Funny thing is (hahaha... I guess?) the crank was in perfect condition other than the gear for the balance shaft.

Judging by how #3 was cracked it may have been some extra oil in that cylinder, and too much was too much once things started moving. It could have been LSPI as well if the detonation was big enough, when the engine starts cold with all that soot coming back from the EGR and crankcase ventilation system you never know.

The BS gear most probably was damaged by the rod bits. it's hard to tell once this happens and you have metal pieces everywhere.

I hate seeing this kind of pictures with engines... When they fist popped up back in like 2009-ish I said to myself that when my engine will go I hope it will go differently and remain usable for a rebuild.
I was kind of lucky in this regard, first time I cracked ringlands on #2 and #3 (26PSI on stock everything and revlimit set at 7k was too much) and second time the custom forged pistons hit the squirters and even if the BS gear was damaged by one of the squirters at least the rest of the engine (block, head, turbo) remained intact.

[Jeff23spl]

sometimes parts may get weaker and weaker over time and stress. I remember an old tempo 2.3 that overheated after the belt broke, It overheated at the point of losing all it's power....i just replaced the water pump and belt...I ran the car for almost 1 year without management. One day, i just reved it up a little in neutral and a rod went out of the bloc. I was surprise it didn't happened sooner but at time the rod went out, there was no reason for it to break right there...

[Mazstor]

I have a speed 6 with 145k miles... seeing all these random engine grenades makes me nervous and want to just get rid of it now and get something else ... part of me still wants to keep it i really love this car! That is really unfortunate OP....

[LenSpeed6]

Well I can't get rid of the car, I've only had it two months, the body is freaking solid for 111K and being in the northeast, I will try to snap pictures of the undercarriage soon. I know I don't keep you guys updated a lot on here but working two jobs, ripping this apart and other commitments have me taxed on time. The spare block that my buddy gave me is being sent to my engine builder on tuesday to see what it needs for machine work. Fingers crossed I'll have the blown one out and on the engine stand disassembling it this weekend.

So the next question I have is... Whats with people taking the counter balance assembly out of these engines? Wouldn't you have to have the rotating assembly re-balanced?

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by LenSpeed6 So the next question I have is... Whats with people taking the counter balance assembly out of these engines? Wouldn't you have to have the rotating assembly re-balanced?

Built engines, balance shaft delete & windage tray

[LenSpeed6]

Originally Posted by Thor Hammer Built engines, balance shaft delete & windage tray

Looks like I'm just going to keep mine in, was looking for a good reason not to reinstall it.

thanks for the link!

[BN00249]

I did hear fairly recently that a lot of ST owners are suffering from LSPI as well. Essentially the same basic engine idea.
I also remember watching someone’s YouTube video about them trying to floor their ecoboost mustang in 5th gear and have it blow black smoke and backfiring.

It’s very hard to minimize boost in lower rpm range. While highway cruising I watch my boost gauge more than any other gauge. If Im on any incline and I see my gauge coming out of vacuum for more than a second, I downshift.

[LenSpeed6]

yeah my plan is to add a gauge package to this car, its a wonder why they never put at least a boost gauge from the factory on these cars. I'd love to get and access port, we will see if funds prevail with all these other parts I have to buy.

[5doorsoffury]

You could just always run e85. It would help a lot with charge temp wich i believe is a factor in LSPI. Alcohol does wonders for this motor when it comes to longevity.

Knowing how these cars are hit and miss when it comes to random out of know where catastrophic suicide i wanted a back up plan. Also if i crashed or the car got totaled i wanted a spare motor so i could buy a speed with a blown motor for super cheap.
I kept my eye out for a extra used block early on to build slowly and on the cheap just incase i needed it. Wife getting prego just launched my plans into overdrive.

[LenSpeed6]

Originally Posted by 5doorsoffury You could just always run e85. It would help a lot with charge temp wich i believe is a factor in LSPI. Alcohol does wonders for this motor when it comes to longevity. Knowing how these cars are hit and miss when it comes to random out of know where catastrophic suicide i wanted a back up plan. Also if i crashed or the car got totaled i wanted a spare motor so i could buy a speed with a blown motor for super cheap. I kept my eye out for a extra used block early on to build slowly and on the cheap just incase i needed it. Wife getting prego just launched my plans into overdrive.

Unfortunately E85 isn't feasible for me, I have no where local to get it unless it would be considered.

[Fstrnyou]

I've been running 2 gal of E with each tank since early summer. It really takes some of the stress away...from me and the motor. Ha.

I'd like to think it saved me on those hot days stuck in CLT traffic with TMIC heatsoaked and I mash the go pedal when I see a break in traffic in a lane that is moving.

[rigor]

Bad tune and if you are awd boosting it at low rpm will bend the rods, aftermarket rods are a must, fueling must be on point.
or you will need a 12 pack of engines,
But engines can't fix a bad factory tune....

good luck

[LenSpeed6]

I kinda figured that id have to break down and get a AP, just overwhelming when I have to dump $3k+ on a car I just bought to use for a freaking daily.

Its frustrating when my buddy and I pounded his car with a bad turbo and nothing happens and continue to have fun with the CS turbo in his, I buy a car that ran stronger then his did stock for whatever reason, red line the dumb thing 3 times and it suffers catastrophic failure.

sorry for the short rant, I guess at the end of it fingers crossed I wont have to worry about this crap happening again and if my buddy explodes his engine we will know what to do.

[Jeff23spl]

When running an old turbo sport car, you should save some money for an engine or at least the turbo....If you run it for a long time, you will have to...


Water/meth injection can be a nice insurance against LSPI. My stock engine did see a lot of high boost in low rpm events without knock for years until i made a tuning error that took away a ringland. Just few seconds of knock was enough...Even if the ringland went away first, i was able to see marks on the specific upper rod bearing....Maybe if i would have continued to wot it this way i would have ended with a rod out of the bloc too...