Crank gear & BSD info

[06Speed6]

The odds of it hitting the rod are nearly zero.

[TRU-BOOST]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 The odds of it hitting the rod are nearly zero.

If that is the case do you think it is even worth the hassle to remove the gear considering i got the baffle kit from PTP ? I'm sire it isnt that difficult to remove, but at the same time this is the crank shaft you are messing with !!

[Deadman]

fuck removing the gear, ill take the bs out but the gear can stay on. It can sling oil where ever it wants imo

[Demi]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST If that is the case do you think it is even worth the hassle to remove the gear considering i got the baffle kit from PTP ? I'm sire it isnt that difficult to remove, but at the same time this is the crank shaft you are messing with !!

Thats my questions too. Is there more to gain by removing this thing than just the few ounces of rotational mass?

[bova]

i'm not about to touch that gear when i do mine, i wouldn't want to fuck with the crankshaft at all.

[06Speed6]

There is only oil control and rotational weight loss to gain. If the gear hits the rod, then you needed a new engine anyway.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by phillyb i am somewhat afraid of cutting the gear. i guess a shop vac would allay some of my worries

Brake cleaner, 2 to 3 cans would take care of 99% of all the material left over. If your worried about that you should take a close look at the piss poor job they did when they cleaned the block castings. I would worry more about that then the material left over from cutting the gear off.

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST As long as you are careful it will be fine. Just be sure to position your cutting tool so that the sparks and shavings are flying downward, not up in the cylinders. Then lots of brake clean !

Ding, winner.

Originally Posted by slo4now I thought about removing the ring gear for awhile when i was underneath the car and said the hell with it, it's staying on for now. All the tiny shavings made me think twice.

Just clean it up, there is very little that will make it into the motor. Like I just stated, there is more that comes loose from poor casting then what you will ever see from cutting off the gear.

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST Not removing it is gonna make that gear sling oil all over the place. That could cause excess vapor and oil foaming. Even with a baffle i am pulling it off. It sits too close to that rod IMO anyways !

Yes it does and with enough crank deflection the gear could twist enough to hit the big end of the rod..... not good.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST If that is the case do you think it is even worth the hassle to remove the gear considering i got the baffle kit from PTP ? I'm sire it isnt that difficult to remove, but at the same time this is the crank shaft you are messing with !!

Messing with the crank is nothing to worry about guys, its nothing but a possitive. If your worried about then leave it on there, if not remove it.

Originally Posted by Demi Thats my questions too. Is there more to gain by removing this thing than just the few ounces of rotational mass?

There are no negatives to removing it, just possitives and oil control is a big possitive.

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 There is only oil control and rotational weight loss to gain. If the gear hits the rod, then you needed a new engine anyway.

I am game for getting both of those gains, and if I can keep my motor a little longer because of it... cool.

[m4tic]

so i have an air die grinder, how do i cut this off? any direction, diagram or other technique tips?

[06Speed6]

Cut between the teeth, put a wet rag in the direction that the shavings are going to be going and it will catch most of them.

You have to cut it twice, once and then turn the crank 90 degrees and cut it again. Pull the piece you cut out and then side the rest off.

[Demi]

Still what are we cutting with?! Did i forget how to read again? I bet i did....

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Demi Still what are we cutting with?! Did i forget how to read again? I bet i did....

Before I chickened out, I was going to use a Dremil cutting wheel.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Before I chickened out, I was going to use a Dremil cutting wheel.

Dremil will take a while to get through the part but it will make the least amount of mess. Cut off wheel will really make a mess so you had better have a few cans or brake clean laying around.

[TRU-BOOST]

Well the more i think about it the more i chicken out. I really want to remove but just have a bad feeling about it. That is unusual for me. I usually have no fear when modding. Every time i think about cutting it my stomach knots up. Fuck it, its stayin on !! Hopefully that windage tray pulls its weight for oil control !

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by TRU-BOOST Well the more i think about it the more i chicken out. I really want to remove but just have a bad feeling about it. That is unusual for me. I usually have no fear when modding. Every time i think about cutting it my stomach knots up. Fuck it, its stayin on !! Hopefully that windage tray pulls its weight for oil control !

So far is has, even with the larger holes in the tray and people complaining about it.... trust me, it works for the location and application that your going to use it for.

[phillyb]

i don't even have bsd kit yet and i'm chicken about removing the gear. and i think we all know how i fuck shit up. me...dremel...bottom end...

let's see how this ends

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by phillyb i don't even have bsd kit yet and i'm chicken about removing the gear. and i think we all know how i fuck shit up. me...dremel...bottom end... let's see how this ends

LOL, philly your a riot sometimes.

Just do the BSD and be done with it. My 6 year old daughter helped me with the install on my car, so she is my new shop foreman. I am going to direct all problems to here for now on, LOL.

[phillyb]

fucking lol

[martyxattack]

ptp i just bought your bsd and is this really it. just one little plug you hammer in a hole. philly hates me and says i need the f2 kit. what are your arguments.

[TRU-BOOST]

That little plug IS it and it works well. I highly recommend a baffle or PYP's windage tray. You will have more oil vapors if you dont remove the gear. I wanted to but i pussed out. After my research i decided that there was no extra reliability gained from removing it. The only benefit was to reduce windage. That is why i say if you keep the gear on at least put a windage tray in. I have PTP's and it seems to do the trick.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by martyxattack ptp i just bought your bsd and is this really it. just one little plug you hammer in a hole. philly hates me and says i need the f2 kit. what are your arguments.

I myself used the F2 BSD since I had bought it before PTP had anything. But I see no reason to think that PTP's plug won't work perfectly fine.

[06Speed6]

Actually on my next oil change I am going to install PTP's plug and reinstall the balance shaft minus the gears and drill holes in it so all the oil drains out. 10lb steel girdle ftw bitches.

The slight problem is that you cant run the windage tray with the BS assembly installed, but ill see what I can do.

[phillyb]

yeah marty, i hate you

[tunersteve]

Originally Posted by bova80 i'm not about to touch that gear when i do mine, i wouldn't want to fuck with the crankshaft at all.

I plan on leaving the gear in place just for some strange reason if my motor decided to take a shit, I could throw the BS back in place, then take it in.

The more I read, the more I want to do this(BSD and windage tray).

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by tunersteve I plan on leaving the gear in place just for some strange reason if my motor decided to take a shit, I could throw the BS back in place, then take it in.

I understand that you can't just stick it back on, it has to be aligned to the correct cog.

[bova]

ha well if the motor is blown and you just toss it in who cares, they can lead it to believe it was the cause, lol.

[Crossbow]

You should also probably drain and collect the oil, then put it back in, if your engine is blown, and you're reinstalling the BSD, and you don't want anyone to know. I know some people have tried to cover up blown engines and they put in fresh oil....fresh clean oil in a blown engine? right....

[tunersteve]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I understand that you can't just stick it back on, it has to be aligned to the correct cog.

Yes I understand that. But to possibly get Mazda to warranty your motor, they can't cite that as a possibility.

Originally Posted by bova80 ha well if the motor is blown and you just toss it in who cares, they can lead it to believe it was the cause, lol.

Exactly. I'd rather cover my ass if it goes back into the dealer than run the risk.

Originally Posted by Crossbow You should also probably drain and collect the oil, then put it back in, if your engine is blown, and you're reinstalling the BSD, and you don't want anyone to know. I know some people have tried to cover up blown engines and they put in fresh oil....fresh clean oil in a blown engine? right....

Good call.

[tunersteve]

Right now I'm trying to explain to someone the benefits of this. They're paranoid that taking it off will cause the motor to fail eventually. Or the BSD will come out and we'd lose oil pressure.

I'm pretty much convinced that this will help us modded DISI guys, regardless. It was a comfort thing that led to a possible severe issue. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road they issue TSB for this to be removed or put in with a new style that doesn't block the #3 cylinder so bad.

[aviator79]

is the gear actually in the oil? I didnt remove it. Couldnt decided, but just didnt see the point I guess. Sort of wish I did, but it was more all the crap from cutting it that concerned me.
Not to mention the vibes that it would cause thru the crank.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by tunersteve Or the BSD will come out and we'd lose oil pressure.

Though I feel reasonably confident John's plug is just fine, if someone was paranoid that it wasn't secure enough, then just buy the F2. That is what I used simply because I had it before John had his part. So, with the F2 part, it comes with a solid bolt, and you put high temp/high strength locktight on it, and it ain't going nowhere.

Originally Posted by aviator79 is the gear actually in the oil? I didnt remove it. Couldnt decided, but just didnt see the point I guess. Sort of wish I did, but it was more all the crap from cutting it that concerned me.

I was concerned about the crap too, so I didn't do it either. The gear certainly isn't into the pan, so, its not buried in oil. I don't know enough about the oil flow to really comment how much oil gets on the gear during driving.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 Though I feel reasonably confident John's plug is just fine, if someone was paranoid that it wasn't secure enough, then just buy the F2. That is what I used simply because I had it before John had his part. So, with the F2 part, it comes with a solid bolt, and you put high temp/high strength locktight on it, and it ain't going nowhere.

Its the same as a freeze plug, it aint goin anywhere.

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I was concerned about the crap too, so I didn't do it either. The gear certainly isn't into the pan, so, its not buried in oil. I don't know enough about the oil flow to really comment how much oil gets on the gear during driving.

The big gear is soaked with the oil from the BS assembly, the entire BS assembly is full to the top with oil.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 The big gear is soaked with the oil from the BS assembly, the entire BS assembly is full to the top with oil.

I meant, I don't know how much oil gets on the gear with the BS removed.

[tunersteve]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I meant, I don't know how much oil gets on the gear with the BS removed.

You'll still see some oil on it from splashing up onto it during turning and whatnot. It's hard to gauge the height (or depth) of that gear from most of the pictures.

I did find while reading up on this, more background info on what the BS does and why they're installed on our cars.

Balance shaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Balance_shaft

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by tunersteve Balance shaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the link. They even list the MZR. It was interesting that they say some V6 engines have them, though a good V6 design wouldn't need one.

[tunersteve]

Yes, I was surprised to learn why they were installed. I got the general concept of dampening vibrations, but to what degree I wasn't sure about.

[m4tic]

Originally Posted by tunersteve Yes, I was surprised to learn why they were installed. I got the general concept of dampening vibrations, but to what degree I wasn't sure about.

its all about comfort and perceived quality of the car and how it would reflect on mazda. would you buy a new car that felt all rickety in the engine?

[tunersteve]

Originally Posted by bmorrisj its all about comfort and perceived quality of the car and how it would reflect on mazda. would you buy a new car that felt all rickety in the engine?

I agree, but I also understand the long term vibration control that the balance shaft provides. On the other hand, there seems to be a relation between the #3 cylinder blowing and the fact that the BS blocks that particular cylinder. It might have novel purpose in the engine, but it might also be an inherently bad design.

[Speedie6]

I've concluded that what I'll probably do for my next car is get a smallish 6 cylinder, properly designed to not need a balance shaft. If the one I pick doesn't come turbo, then have it rebuilt with components that can handle a turbo and put one on it.

[bova]

here is a reason to do the BSD. I dont know if blockhead8 (forget his name on this forum) will post this up but here is his post from 6club.

Moment of truth, here it is...... Took out the oil pan today and found the BS hanging on the black plastic tube ,Hmmm what happen to all the bolts? Also the front of the block have a big hole, but where is the rod? And the rear of the Block, where the oil drain line, also have a hole ,which bigger then the front, but i still cant find the rod... So i'm thinking maybe the rod still in there, but then i look inside the cylinder #3 There is no rod.. guess what happen ... Look at the pics Can you see the BS?... These bolts suppost to hold the BS inplace... Here is what left of the rod inside the oil pan..... Enjoy..........