Engine Seized, Broken Rod

[Siebs]

New guy here, just purchased a 2007 Mazdaspeed6 for $800 from a guy, knowing the engine is seized. I have been lurking for a couple of weeks now trying to learn as much as I can as I start to tear into this car. I have seen a lot of very useful information and figured I would start to share my progress as I go, mainly looking for some good advice/direction.

I pulled the oil pan last night and found this:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GNfQMAsGpyzfph7h7

I started ripping into soon after, I decided to pull the front clip to make things a little easier even though it's not needed.

Here is where I left it last night.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vYGF2HaurNgs8sAQA

New to the Mazdaspeed scene, not new to general working on cars/rebuilding engines. Any friendly advice or direction is welcome. I am not exactly sure which route I am going to take as to get this car running as I need to inspect the block further!

Until next time....

Brandon

[MSMS3]

Welcome, Brandon!

The car looks like a former racehorse that has been run hard and put away wet.

Hard to say how much damage, but there are good sources here for short blocks and long blocks if that is not rebuildable. Just looking at the bottom end photo, I'd say the engine has been abused.

These engines are vulnerable to throwing and/or bending rods from improper, stupid tuning decisions that produce too much torque down at low rpm full throttle operating conditions. if you rebuild you will want to go forged on rods and pistons.

When sensible upgrades and tuning are used, the engine is capable of making a lot of horsepower reliably.

I would suggest you invest in the $25 or whatever it is these days to join the "VIP" section. You'll find detailed technical information, including the complete shop manual and lots of shared information of engine builds (and just about every other system on the car). It is a vast treasure trove of technical information on this platform far beyond anything else out there on the Internet.

[GohanX]

Well, $800 is still a steal, even if you have to buy a whole new engine to throw in it. Good luck with the project!

[breakfasteatre]

wonder if it hydrolocked with that filter there, even with the cover on it

[Siebs]

I will agree with the racehorse, it isn't as clean as I'd like, and living in Northern MN, there is more rust than I'd like but it's in the garage now!

There was no water in the oil indicating a hydrolock and that filter is pretty protected between the bumper and the inner fender, I'm not ruling it out though.

It looks to have a fairly new turbo and there is a sticker in the engine bay stating a modification from a dealership, I'll have to get a picture or the number. I garuntee you this car saw some abuse after meeting and talking to the previous owner.

My hopes are that the block is salvageable, rebuild with forged rods and pistons and look into running E85 and some more boost for now.

[Thor Hammer]

Originally Posted by Siebs I garuntee you this car saw some abuse after meeting and talking to the previous owner.

Considering its formerly abused life as you stated I would be concerned about the drivetrain health as well. Hopefully its all in good shape. Drain the fluids from the trans, tcase (PTO) and rear diff and look for bits of metal.

The PTO is known to be a weak component when abused. Mine went out and I don't abuse my car. The pinion gear lost some teeth due to a bearing going bad. Speed Performance makes upgraded bearing caps for it which strengthens it quite a bit. I bring this up as if it is bad you can save a ton of money and install a PTO from a CX-7 with a couple of easy modifications. There is a very detailed write up on here for it. Its what I replaced mine with.

Great buy and looking forward to the build! Lots of very knowledgeable folk on here that can help you decide what pistons and rods to buy for whatever your HP goals are.

[Solarsurge]

You don't need to inspect that block any further. The girdle is FUBAR, and each main girdle is actually a perfect mate to the block it comes out of. You can't just get a new girdle and slap it in. You're gonna need a new block or a custom machined girdle, which would cost a lot more than a new block. Where are you located? I can possibly help you out if you're nearby.

Edit: Durr. I just saw your second post and you're literally on the other side of the country. I'm in Virginia. I happen to have an engine I just pulled that I'm gonna be selling soon on the forums. It's been great for 93k miles and has no issues. It will be offered as-is, overhauled, or fully built depending on whatever the buyer wants. I'd suggest paying the $25 fee to get access to the forums buy/sell area.

[Siebs]

Here is a picture of the modification approval by, what must be a dealer. A quick Google points to an ECU upgrade of some sort.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RGu5PuLqMj36wwfb7

I started searching for a block. I have read that the CX-7 blocks are the same and I can potentially use one, seems there are a lot more of the CX-7 blocks available and I'll most likely try to find a good used short block to rebuild from, adding stronger rods at least.

I removed the intake manifold and some parts around that area last night, didn't get to work on it too long. My goal is to have the engine out and get the car out of the way in my other garage ASAP.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/yQYQDxhYqTC4y3o88

Until next time....

[MSMS3]

Abuse notwithstanding, you got it for a steal. I also strongly doubt hydrolock.

[Siebs]

Thanks for the input on the PTO and the rest of the drivetrain. I planned on draining and replacing all of the fluids anyways but now I know to pay further attention to the transfer case.

Appreciate the advice that has been given so far. Exactly why I wanted to start this thread.

[Siebs]

New update.


This is where it sits as of this morning.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pQTL2oFAvhiJyU4Z8

Engine out and bay cleared. I struggled with the 2 exhaust bolts closest to the turbo, so the whole pipe came out with the motor.

Here is the motor on the lift still. Will be tearing it apart this week.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/zRxwMMDbzcxfTXye6

Looks like I'll be finding a rebuildable block and crank. Not 100% sure I need the crank, but most likely.

Until next time......

[Fstrnyou]

Hmm, I guess with the front end ripped off, it's easy enough to yank it with the downpipe installed.

The last two times I put my engine back in, I forgot to reattach my downpipe while the engine was still hanging high. Would be nice to have it installed outside of the bay, but I don't take off my entire front end.

[5doorsoffury]

Welcome.
Get a fucking avatar and a sig for the love of god your vip.

[Siebs]

More progress last night. The juicy stuff.

Crank and block.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nJJjaMjeFv376FwCA

Crank journal is damaged.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NC2dny6xRzPQ5his9

Piston and Rod Pieces
https://photos.app.goo.gl/878CaYK1f6gcEAQu5

Bottom of the head.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NV3Pk8zazHXiM3gXA

Top of the block.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cummSi2aiy4QQdAP7

I stopped last night late when I couldn't get the main cap cradle off, I loosened the bolts and hit it with a rubber mallet a few times, no luck. Probably just needs some more convincing.

I'll be ordering the crankshaft and used block up today. I'm also going to start looking for at least forged rods to put back in this motor. Any suggestions on a reasonably priced set of rods and maybe pistons?

I ordered up a 20 gal parts washer from Harbor Freight. The motor and motor accessories are filthy, going to fill it with mineral spirits and get some these parts cleaned up.

Enjoy the dirty pics.

[MSMS3]

I noticed that the top of the valves on three cylinders were white. I wonder if the previous owner was running meth for cylinder cooling. But all four cylinders should look that way. Strange. Head does look ok, but obviously needs cleaning.

Look through the port side to see if there is a lot of carbon build up on the valve stems and back side of the valves. That's common with direct injection, but running meth reduces that.

Is the cylinder with the darker colored valves the same one with the broken rod and destroyed crank journal?

[Siebs]

He could have taken it off before I purchased it but I have not seen anything to indicate that there was meth injection on this motor. I will check for carbon build up. I am actually a little bit surprised everything internally looks as clean as it does, especially after comparing it to the outside of the motor.

You would be correct. The cylinder with the darker valves is the cylinder with the broken rod.

[Fstrnyou]

The crank journal girdle is somewhat of a press fit. It will take some agressive prying to get it out.

[Jeff23spl]

the engine internal may be clean because i bet it was already rebuilded...
When i look at the first pic, the crank seem to have been bufed from some kind of crank balancing attempt...I would look into the other parts just in case you could find something usefull.
Is you plant to rebuild a different engine or try with that one? Personally, i would get another one completely that wasn't blown. Just to avoid all the metal parts that can remain inside all oil passages or just because you don't know all the story. (Assuming it could have been rebuilt)
At worst, there is some talk about the ecoboost crank that could fit but before someone put pictures and comments to confirm, i preffer to say it may not be perfect...

[Siebs]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl the engine internal may be clean because i bet it was already rebuilded... When i look at the first pic, the crank seem to have been bufed from some kind of crank balancing attempt...I would look into the other parts just in case you could find something usefull. Is you plant to rebuild a different engine or try with that one? Personally, i would get another one completely that wasn't blown. Just to avoid all the metal parts that can remain inside all oil passages or just because you don't know all the story. (Assuming it could have been rebuilt) At worst, there is some talk about the ecoboost crank that could fit but before someone put pictures and comments to confirm, i preffer to say it may not be perfect...

The plan is to find a good used block to rebuild from. Forged internals.

[Fstrnyou]

That crank looks normal to me. Mine looked similar.

Also, there is a local to me using an ecoboost crank. Only recently got it running, so may be too early to be certain.

[Siebs]

Been a little while. I ordered a used block and crank and had it shipped to my work place.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1adKWuBdwwMY7Ga39

Not sure where the last piston picture went but it looks the same as the other 3. The motor I ordered has a rod bearing that is bad. I noticed the pistons were different but according to everything else the block should work just fine. Should have it at work on Thursday.

[Siebs]

After disassembling the used block I purchased I started thinking about the piston differences. I have read a few times that the pistons and rods are different in the Gen 2 motors. Does anyone know why they went to a different style? I can tell the difference on the pistons but not the rods. Are the Gen 2 pistons and rods better? Is it possible to run Gen 2 pistons and rods in a Gen 1 motor?

[Fstrnyou]

The Gen2 pistons are better tailored for direct injection. I was not aware the rods were different. The blocks/heads are the same and therefore it's all interchangeable.

Personal opinion, if you're replacing the rods and pistons with new, just get aftermarket. It doesn't cost much more to have a solid bottom end.

A follow-up on the ecoboost crank. That local is now making around 600whp.

[Solarsurge]

There are actually a few minor differences in the head. The Gen2 head actually has slightly different oil flow. The most obvious difference is in the journal cap that mates with the cam follower. I think they just changed it a bit because it was too easy to clog them with RTV, which is required on that cap. Gen1's tend to melt valves more often, but that could either be coincidence, piston design impact, or a result of that oil flow. I think the Gen2 Head & pistons with a Gen1 block is ideal. The Gen1 blocks seem to be virtually indestructible and handle more power. Gen2 blocks seem to have more issues with crank case pressure, too. I dunno why. Maybe slight defects from old block molds?

[Jeff23spl]

Pistons, Valve cover and breather system, The VVT also got some heat treatment somewhere in 2007-8.

[Siebs]

Thanks for the information guys.

[Siebs]

Bad news. I brought both of the crankshafts to the local machine shop and both of them are bad, 1 is cracked on a bearing journal and the other is so far out of spec that it can't be turned down.

My options are now to find another used crank, a new crank or.... I've been reading about the EcoBoost Mustang cranks are the same. The last option seems to be the best, they are available for around $300 and I am having a hard time finding a good used crank.

Thoughts?

[Jeff23spl]

personally, me and peoples around me has never been lucky with re-build or grinded crank with oversized bearing so i won't put any money on a blown crank. IT was also the reason why i was suggesting to take a used engine instead of trying to work on yours but i was meaning a used engine that still run, not another blown one that knock on rod because you already have 2...

Also installing another crank in a bloc means work to adapt the bloc to the new crank.....Usually it work better to keep the crank from the bloc it came from....
It would be hard to find a blown L3VDT with a good crank because it is the most common fail to roll a rod bearing....Unless you find a 2006-7 with a failed VVT, you would need to look for one that runs with low compression

[nindoja]

People are using the 2.3 EB cranks in our engines for a while now. I think it's the same 2.3 crank in the FoST engines, but it may be in the Mustang too. I don't remember.

EDIT: It is the 2.3 EB Mustang crank that works.

[Jeff23spl]

The ST as a shorter stroke for 2.0l but RS and mustang as the 2.3 stroke

[nindoja]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl The ST as a shorter stroke for 2.0l but RS and mustang as the 2.3 stroke

Hmm, guess I was wrong there. It is the 2.3 EB crank from the mustang that people use.

[Fstrnyou]

BAN worthy. *tisk tisk.