GB smoking turbo fix!!!

[ptperformance]

This is where the GB for the oil burning fix starts, and we will be giving a description of what the part does as well.

What it does?

Our testing has shown that the motor pushes oil past the turbo seals due to the crank case pressures. How you ask, well let me try to explain.

The PCV system is supposed to create a vacuum in the motor under cruise and idle conditions. This causes the seals, rings, and drain back to all “seal” when under vacuum. Problem, the motor never really reaches a vacuum point due to the configuration of the system. This causes huge issues with the oil return from the turbo back into the block. Any pressure at all and I mean just one or two psi will cause the oil to back up in the turbo and that in return will cause the oil to push past the seal in the turbo. Now, this doesn’t mean that your turbo is “blown” it just means that the oil has to go somewhere and its “leaking” past the turbo seals.

There is a direct relationship to aftermarket DP causing the turbo seals to leak, so let me explain what happens here.

Every turbo system on every car has before and after turbo pressures. We are going to be talking about aft pressures because this is what causes the seals to leak. If the crankcase has 2 psi of pressure in it and the aft turbo pressure is 5 to 7 psi then the seal will not leak. This example would be with the factory DP install. When you go with an aftermarket DP the pressures drop in the aft turbo side, thus causing the pressure in the crank case to overcome the aft pressures in the turbo. This is where you get your smoking turbo issues from, it’s a design flaw.

Test results are as follows:

Factory DP, factory PCV system in place:

Crank case pressure (idle) 1.2 to 2.0 psi
Aft turbo pressures: 2.8 to 7 psi

Aftermarket DP, factory PCV system in place:

Crank case pressure (idle) 1.2 to 2.4 psi
Aft turbo pressure (idle): 1.0 to 2.0 psi

With the PTP mod installed into the PCV system the crank case pressure moved from a PSI to a vacuum, thus allowing the oil to drain back into the oil pan, vs keeping the oil backed up in the turbo.

For some this may be hard to understand, I mean, how can a pressure in the crank case keep the oil return from working? It’s just like having a blocked or restricted oil return line. Any pressure being applied to the oil return line applies close to 4 times that pressure in the turbo housing. I wish I could have gotten some oil return line pressure readings but that is not where the problem starts, its more inside the turbo than at the line itself and any intrusive testing of pressure in the return line would have been very difficult to monitor due to the testing equipment causing a restriction itself.

So what does this mean? Well good news is, your turbo is not blown (it shouldn’t be but we have seen a few very bad cases that cause the seals to “cook”, thus causing a blown turbo. This is very rare and you will smoke all the time, not just at idle or cruise.) and you can rest knowing that we have a fix for you. Bad news, you are going to have to spend $25 to fix it. If you ask me, it’s a cheap fix for the problem.

I do want to address what you are going to be getting when you place your order. It’s an insert for the PCV system, it takes all but a minute to install and the part really doesn’t consist of much. So when you get it please do not go “this is it?” because we are offering a money back guarantee with the part that it will fix your smoking turbo issues. We have 100’s of man hours into this part, and several cut up PCV systems and valve covers to determine what the cause of the smoking was. We took a look at getting a pat pending on this part (still are in the process) but wanted to get this out to you ASAP at a price we feel is fair and to keep the competition from duplicating it.

If you have any questions about what I have posted here feel free to ask them, thanks.

Link to make a purchase: PT-Performance.com

[aaronc7]

Where exactly does this go? Sign me up I'll give it a shot. Like I said in the PM my main concern is oil in hotside FMIC piping

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

I'm not smoking, but thats whats been holding me back on a DP ... so I'm in .. I'ld like to know where it goes too.

[Target:STi]

ive always had a feeling that adding a DP adds issues with these cars. i guess this is the reason. nice job man, thanks for all your hard work.

[Babyface]

I am also in with this one.

[ptperformance]

Thanks guys, install is very easy and only takes a few minutes to install. I goes into a line for the PCV system. Sorry about being vauge on this one detail, full install directions will come with the part.

[2007speed3]

Originally Posted by aaronc7 Where exactly does this go?

Ill show you where it goes Aaron.



Yea sign me up, if it works ill be able to get a dp again and not smoke out drive thrus, and traffic intersections.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 2007speed3 Ill show you where it goes Aaron. Yea sign me up, if it works ill be able to get a dp again and not smoke out drive thrus, and traffic intersections.

Thanks, and was that first part suppose to be a joke? If it was, LOL'ed.

[RayRayBauder]

ill probably try one for 25 bucks. im going to see if i smoke or not once i get my dp.

[cpolly69]

i smoked with my factory dp & mid-pipe & only a cat back (it took about 20k miles w/only the cat-back for this to happen)- i did enough in fact that my dealer documented it with pics, sent them off, and eventually replaced my first turbo - i have since added a dp on the new turbo - which lead to instant smoking at idle - so i know the dp makes the problem worse, but i think any decrease in exhaust back pressure can start the problem -

[GQ_WhiteMS3]

for $25 I'm in .... paid.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by RayRayBauder ill probably try one for 25 bucks. im going to see if i smoke or not once i get my dp.

Thanks, there is still some testing that needs to get done with the part and knock control. We suspect that the knock at 2700 RPM might be coming from the PCV system shutting down, if that is the case we will be reporting back on this.

Originally Posted by cpolly69 i smoked with my factory dp & mid-pipe & only a cat back (it took about 20k miles w/only the cat-back for this to happen)- i did enough in fact that my dealer documented it with pics, sent them off, and eventually replaced my first turbo - i have since added a dp on the new turbo - which lead to instant smoking at idle - so i know the dp makes the problem worse, but i think any decrease in exhaust back pressure can start the problem -

I agree with you, it seems to be a very small margin of error that determines when the car will start smoking. We have seen these work first hand and they seem to fix the problem 100% of the time. In stock and shipping Monday.

Originally Posted by GQ_WhiteMS3 for $25 I'm in .... paid.

Thank you.

[cpolly69]

i appreciate the r&d that you guys did on this as well and i do hope it turns out to be a permeate solution - the source of my complaint earlier was just that i wanted to be one of the ones that was going to find out of this worked long term and not wait around for someone else to tell me it was - i paid for one

[ElBartoRex]

does anyone have any issues w/ smoking when on boost? Will this fix that too?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 i appreciate the r&d that you guys did on this as well and i do hope it turns out to be a permeate solution - the source of my complaint earlier was just that i wanted to be one of the ones that was going to find out of this worked long term and not wait around for someone else to tell me it was - i paid for one

Thanks for the payment, this fix is a permanent one due to it fixing the design of the system vs trying to work around the system with other "fixes".

Originally Posted by ElBartoRex does anyone have any issues w/ smoking when on boost? Will this fix that too?

I would have to say that if your smoking on boost you do have a blown turbo. Or it could just be build up in the intake manifold. How bad do you smoke under boost and do you smoke at idle as well?

I would say try it, and if it doesn't work you can always get a refund.

[jmhinkle]

Is this still applicable if you have an OCC and two PCV's in the stock location?

[vt_ms3]

I had a quick question about different aftermarket exhaust parts.

Do you think that having different setups could have different pressure levels? Does this PCV fix/part account for this?

For example (just as a random example):
Aftermarket TBE from company A creates .9 PSI
Aftermarket TBE from company B creates 1.2 PSI
Aftermarket CBE from company A creates 2.0 PSI
etc., etc.

What I'm wondering is if your part here takes this into consideration? People have had varying levels of smoke come out, most likely due to different exhaust setups. Some smoke like chimneys while others just have a little bit. And from what I'm reading here, it sounds like it all has to do with the pressure generated by the exhaust components.

I applaud your time spent with R&D for this product, but just wanted that clarified.

[DreSEL]

Originally Posted by jmhinkle Is this still applicable if you have an OCC and two PCV's in the stock location?

I would also like to know the answer to this question.

[mpsanger6]

ordered

[m4tic]

if i order one, can i get my egr plug?

[mazdarati]

John,

Put me down for one. Please

[lidokrantz]

i am not smoking ATM, is this a piece that should be put in as a preventitive piece now or wait and see if my turbo ever smokes...If this works, and is that easy to install than this is a good piece...Looks like a washer.......you can get these at Home Depot for .05cents LOL...only kidding....nice job PTP !!!

[Ghost Rider]

hopefully this is not in the wrong place but in the other thread about this part you mentioned something about eliminating knock, was that related to this part?

[2007speed3]

^^^ I am with this guy.

Can you better explain what you mean by correcting the knock problem.

did you find out with this piece that pt knock actually was reduced.

[DaleNixon]

I'm skeptical but I'm considering it. My checking account won't be over $25 until next Tuesday though. lol

[skeeter149]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon I'm skeptical but I'm considering it. My checking account won't be over $25 until next Tuesday though. lol

with dale i wont have money till next tuesday but interested.. put me on.

[bnoon]

Curious about something... are you guys still recommending the PCV relocate to the valve cover/baffle area with this fix? I had some concerns about that because you had stated that your catch can was empty after the relocate. I like the fact that my catch can gets crap in it because it means the crap is no longer in my oil.

Also, what were your measured "after fix" pressures at crankcase and after turbo? I'd like to compare them to the pressures you show in your first post as well as to my own.

[Erich]

Originally Posted by bnoon Curious about something... are you guys still recommending the PCV relocate to the valve cover/baffle area with this fix? I had some concerns about that because you had stated that your catch can was empty after the relocate. I like the fact that my catch can gets crap in it because it means the crap is no longer in my oil. Also, what were your measured "after fix" pressures at crankcase and after turbo? I'd like to compare them to the pressures you show in your first post as well as to my own.

The PCV relocate is to fix another problem with the PCV system. That being the rare occasion that a large quantity of oil could be ingested through the PCV valve into the intake. I know people are skeptical about whether that can occur or not, but I saw John's car directly after he bent rods and can say that I am 99% certain that is what happened in his case. I also think it happens on a smaller scale more often.

I also believe that the condition that causes the ingestion of oil stops the PCV line from evacuating pressure at times when it should be.

All that said, this fix is independent from the PCV relocate and should work regardless.

[jroc]

purchased...i only smoke a little bit at idle after a few moments/minutes of driving, but its still annoying...i cant imagine the amount of smoke as im about to go catless, so im hoping this will help

[Poohster]

Purchased. Thanks.

[MS3 Ventura]

Purchased.

Please include the WI freeze plug (second version). I never did receive mine from the group buy.

Thanks

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by jmhinkle Is this still applicable if you have an OCC and two PCV's in the stock location?

Yes, it will compliment your current system very nicely.

Originally Posted by vt_ms3 I had a quick question about different aftermarket exhaust parts. Do you think that having different setups could have different pressure levels? Does this PCV fix/part account for this? For example (just as a random example): Aftermarket TBE from company A creates .9 PSI Aftermarket TBE from company B creates 1.2 PSI Aftermarket CBE from company A creates 2.0 PSI etc., etc. What I'm wondering is if your part here takes this into consideration? People have had varying levels of smoke come out, most likely due to different exhaust setups. Some smoke like chimneys while others just have a little bit. And from what I'm reading here, it sounds like it all has to do with the pressure generated by the exhaust components. I applaud your time spent with R&D for this product, but just wanted that clarified.

Our parts take into consideration the stock configuration of the motor. The goal when we made the part was to keep the pressure ouf of the block no matter what DP or combination of parts you had on the car. Even if you have cams on the car and a lower vacuum than stock the part we are offering would still work. We did try other configurations of the part but they never really worked as well as the one you see here. Hope that helps.

Originally Posted by mpsanger6 Paid, thanks PTP!

Thank you.

Originally Posted by bmorrisj if i order one, can i get my egr plug?

Nope, we will give you your EGR plug without ordering one. If you do order one just put it in the notes that we owe you an EGR plug. If you don't order one, please send me a PM so I can get the EGR plug out to you.

Originally Posted by mazdarati John, Put me down for one. Please

You got it, thanks.

Originally Posted by lidokrantz i am not smoking ATM, is this a piece that should be put in as a preventitive piece now or wait and see if my turbo ever smokes...If this works, and is that easy to install than this is a good piece...Looks like a washer.......you can get these at Home Depot for .05cents LOL...only kidding....nice job PTP !!!

Yes, if you have a DP planned in the future of your car... you need one. We ship one with every DP we sell now. I wish is was just a washer, the picture doesn't show all the details of the part (reasons for this).

Originally Posted by Ghost Rider hopefully this is not in the wrong place but in the other thread about this part you mentioned something about eliminating knock, was that related to this part?

We are taking a look at this over the weekend, we suspect that may be the case but some additional testing has to get done before we can confirm this. I will keep you guys posted on the results.

Originally Posted by 2007speed3 ^^^ I am with this guy. Can you better explain what you mean by correcting the knock problem. did you find out with this piece that pt knock actually was reduced.

I will make another thread for that is this does in fact change the knock of the motor, thanks.

Originally Posted by DaleNixon I'm skeptical but I'm considering it. My checking account won't be over $25 until next Tuesday though. lol

Are you burning oil? If you are then I personally gaurantee that part will work or your money back.

Originally Posted by skeeter149 with dale i wont have money till next tuesday but interested.. put me on.

You got it, lots in stock so just order up from the site.

Originally Posted by bnoon Curious about something... are you guys still recommending the PCV relocate to the valve cover/baffle area with this fix? I had some concerns about that because you had stated that your catch can was empty after the relocate. I like the fact that my catch can gets crap in it because it means the crap is no longer in my oil. Also, what were your measured "after fix" pressures at crankcase and after turbo? I'd like to compare them to the pressures you show in your first post as well as to my own.

The relocate is for a different problem like Erich pointed out. Pressures are listed in the first post for after results, thanks.

Originally Posted by jroc purchased...i only smoke a little bit at idle after a few moments/minutes of driving, but its still annoying...i cant imagine the amount of smoke as im about to go catless, so im hoping this will help

It will, everyone that has installed one has had nothing but success with it.

Originally Posted by Poohster Purchased. Thanks.

Thank you.

Originally Posted by MS3 Ventura Purchased. Please include the WI freeze plug (second version). I never did receive mine from the group buy. Thanks

Thank you and I hope you put a note in the order comments so we can get you this part with you WI bung. If not, please contact me via PM so we can get you taken care of, thanks again.

[Babyface]

Originally Posted by Babyface I am also in with this one.

Paid!!!

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Babyface Paid!!!

You the man, thanks!

[ElBartoRex]

Originally Posted by ptperformance I would have to say that if your smoking on boost you do have a blown turbo. Or it could just be build up in the intake manifold. How bad do you smoke under boost and do you smoke at idle as well?

I get a light puff of smoke when I go from cruising to full throttle/boost from what I can tell its black/grey in color. No smoke on idle. Possibly an issue of running a lil rich and catless? There are no other symptoms that would lead me to believe that my turbo is blown.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by ElBartoRex I get a light puff of smoke when I go from cruising to full throttle/boost from what I can tell its black/grey in color. No smoke on idle. Possibly an issue of running a lil rich and catless? There are no other symptoms that would lead me to believe that my turbo is blown.

I would have to say yes, your just running rich. Nope, you should be good but I would say get one no matter what to protect yourself.

[Speedie6]

This part is obviously a no brainer. If you will CALL ME, I will take care of getting this on order, plus some other things we have discussed.

I'm still curious as to what else we should be doing for the PCV system. Are you still going to do that super-dulux, nuclear-powered explosion-proof catch can that you had talked about before? Are you still doing the PCV relocate?

I had thought about installing a Saiku Machi using the install instructions that Cobb did with dual check valves. But, I had been waiting to see what you were doing, and what Mazda was doing. It seems like the only thing Mazda is doing is a higher quality PCV check valve? At any rate, I'd really like to formulate a final plan on this so that I can get this issue behind me.

[aaronc7]

ordered

[RUMBLEFISH]

Oh boy cant wait to see how this does and thanks for the effort you put into this.

Money sent.

[crlsnlopes]

paid. couldn't have come at a better time. i just installed my TP and NOW i started to smoking a little .