In the market for MS6 - newbie questions

[lsstefan]

Greetings.
As the title says, I'm the market for a MS6.
Let me tell you a little about myself(I might be here for a while) and then I'll get to the point.

I started in 2013 with a 2011 Skoda Superb 2.0 TSI which my brother bought. Unfortunately, he bought it damaged because he was a in a rush to buy the car. So I got stuck with it. I gave it a quick ecu remap and kept it for 2 years. I wanted to do more, but I was afraid the engine might blow up due to me not knowing what's in there since the repair from the previous owner was shitty to say the least.
In 2015 I bought the new Ecoboost Mustang. Got an exhaust, ecu tune and some suspension tweaks. Sold it after a year due to low cash income... Lost 9k euros on the whole thing...
Went back to Skoda and decided to tune it, if the engine cracks I'll buy a new one. So I got suspension, DSG tune, intake and after I spent 1600 E on wheels I saw the chassis is so fucked up, my front driver wheel would stick out a lot and rub everywhere. 1 week ago I decided to abandon and search for another car.
I have lots of options, but on these roads with the other drivers and don't care how they park, I don't want to spend more than 10k on a car. So here I am.

I found a 2007 MS6 for 4500. I haven't spoken to the guy yet, I want to make sure I want the car. After I buy it, I will get it a makeover - sparks, coils, valves, cleaned engine, bushes, brakes etc etc etc.

My aim is @400 hp(rather be + than -) DD. I will most likely buy stuff that I don't really need regarding drivetrain and suspension, but I can't not buy things for the car. Would be fun to buy a car for 4k and spend 6k on it.
-- I read that the car comes with k04 stock. A buddy of mine has a hybrid k04 on this Golf GTI5 with 420hp. I'm thinking a 2.3 engine with that turbo will hit 400.
-- Suspension wise, I found some decent priced coils from Bilstein or Tein, will get poly bushes for the diff and arms.
-- Wheels - I will try to sell the ones I bought 2 weeks ago for at least 1200. If I can't, I'll buy adapters 114.3 to 112 and use these ones. I had some on my Mustang with 350 hp and they held on very good. Will get fender flares to cover the huge poke.
Wheels are 19x8.5 et 32. with a 20 mm adapter that's 19x8.5 et12. How are 19 inch wheels on MS6?
-- Exhaust will probably be custom 3 inch turboback or Jetex 304 3 inch.
-- Tune with Cobb AP. Mailed Freektune about it.
Now comes the fun part:
-- Intake most likely a SRI, Sure I think. It's kinda expensive compared to much much longer VAG ones, but there's not much I can do about it.
-- IC. Been reading for 2 days about it. I want to get a TMIC for that instant power and because I don't care about top end power in the city. I won't hit the tracks, so no use there. The problem is stop lights. Most of the pulls will be done from stop lights after maybe 1 minute of 40* C sun and engine running. I'm not so fond of WOT with a sweaty IC.
I can get a FMIC, but I will NOT cut my crash bar ever. I saw someone put it behind the bar, seems to be some room there. I found the Corksport FMIC with that ram intake instead of TMIC and I liked it a lot. The price however is not so to my liking. For 1400 euros I rather go without a hood and use a TMIC. I'll also take some measurements after I buy the car to see if I can build my own FMIC. Doesn't look that bad, but I won't cut or move anything. If it fits ok, if not, fuck it.
I'm also thinking about getting the upper intake pipe thru the radiator cover like the EvoX, since I won't be using the hood ram.
Speaking of hood ram, is there anything I can do to get the air that used to go to FMIC into the radiator?

Other topics:
I'd rather have 350 hp and put 330 down than to have 500 and put 300 only at start. I read to not use a front LSD, but I did find a rear diff that should be better than the stock one. I also read about rear axles?
I haven't gotten to the chapter about BOV/BPV, but I want recirculation no doubt.

Any other suggestions for drivetrain/suspension improvements?
Does the corksport MS3 steering wheel fit the MS6?
Any other lighter power suggestions for engine etc?

Thank you in advance for the help.
Kind regards,
Stefan.

[Mazdazilla6]

.

Originally Posted by lsstefan My aim is @400 hp(rather be + than -) DD. I will most likely buy stuff that I don't really need regarding drivetrain and suspension, but I can't not buy things for the car. Would be fun to buy a car for 4k and spend 6k on it. -- I read that the car comes with k04 stock. A buddy of mine has a hybrid k04 on this Golf GTI5 with 420hp. I'm thinking a 2.3 engine with that turbo will hit 400. Not gonna happen. Not even close, you might get a bit over 300 but it won't even come close to 400. -- Suspension wise, I found some decent priced coils from Bilstein or Tein, will get poly bushes for the diff and arms. Tein is garbage, Bilstein isn't. -- Wheels - I will try to sell the ones I bought 2 weeks ago for at least 1200. If I can't, I'll buy adapters 114.3 to 112 and use these ones. I had some on my Mustang with 350 hp and they held on very good. Will get fender flares to cover the huge poke. Wheels are 19x8.5 et 32. with a 20 mm adapter that's 19x8.5 et12. How are 19 inch wheels on MS6? Expensive -- Exhaust will probably be custom 3 inch turboback or Jetex 304 3 inch. -- Tune with Cobb AP. Mailed Freektune about it. Now comes the fun part: -- Intake most likely a SRI, Sure I think. It's kinda expensive compared to much much longer VAG ones, but there's not much I can do about it. Get a 3" and call it a day. There's plenty of options out there. Sure sucks cock. -- IC. Been reading for 2 days about it. I want to get a TMIC for that instant power and because I don't care about top end power in the city. I won't hit the tracks, so no use there. The problem is stop lights. Most of the pulls will be done from stop lights after maybe 1 minute of 40* C sun and engine running. I'm not so fond of WOT with a sweaty IC. I can get a FMIC, but I will NOT cut my crash bar ever. I saw someone put it behind the bar, seems to be some room there. I found the Corksport FMIC with that ram intake instead of TMIC and I liked it a lot. The price however is not so to my liking. For 1400 euros I rather go without a hood and use a TMIC. I'll also take some measurements after I buy the car to see if I can build my own FMIC. Doesn't look that bad, but I won't cut or move anything. If it fits ok, if not, fuck it. If you don't want a cut crashbar then get Treadstone's FMIC kit. TMIC will always be less efficient, especially if heat soak is your largest concern. I'm also thinking about getting the upper intake pipe thru the radiator cover like the EvoX, since I won't be using the hood ram. Speaking of hood ram, is there anything I can do to get the air that used to go to FMIC into the radiator? Other topics: I'd rather have 350 hp and put 330 down than to have 500 and put 300 only at start. I read to not use a front LSD, but I did find a rear diff that should be better than the stock one. I also read about rear axles? You won't need to upgrade the axles or any diffs. Factory is just fine for your goals. I haven't gotten to the chapter about BOV/BPV, but I want recirculation no doubt. Stock is fine for your goals. Unless you want something that sounds different. Any other suggestions for drivetrain/suspension improvements? DM engine mounts, rear diff mounts. Does the corksport MS3 steering wheel fit the MS6? Probably not. Any other lighter power suggestions for engine etc? You need an upgraded HPFP. Also consider a catless downpipe. Thank you in advance for the help. Kind regards, Stefan.

[lsstefan]

Thanks for the reply.
I already have the wheels, was just asking if the MS6 is made for 19 inch or 18 is more recommended?
I want 400 bhp, not whp. You don't think I can get 400 with an upgraded k04 that runs 420 bhp on 2.0 engine?

I'll check the IC you mentioned. Thanks for the help.

[Mazdazilla6]

400bhp is super arbitrary. There's a reason why everyone uses wheel numbers, because it's not arbitrary or calculated, it's real measured numbers. Regardless, you will not get to 400bhp on a stock k04. Do yourself a favor and pick up a slightly larger turbo like a BNR S3. It'll easily meet your goals and it's not very expensive.

[Omega]

If you assume a 20% drivetrain loss 400whp would be 320whp - it's doable with meth/e85 even if measured using rice math (I hate it when people want to talk bhp on a modded car because, bigger number yo....).

You could do 19's, some members have but what's the point of having all that performance and then adding 19's and shit? WTF? goals here seem a little... mixed.

The corksport FMIC core on the 6 is pretty damn large (I have one) - it fits - they have core measurements on their website, I have it in writing if you need it to get one that will fit. You of course will need to make your own brackets - you also need to cut your rad core supports and make appropriate core supports from metal.

[lsstefan]

Originally Posted by Omega If you assume a 20% drivetrain loss 400whp would be 320whp - it's doable with meth/e85 even if measured using rice math (I hate it when people want to talk bhp on a modded car because, bigger number yo....). You could do 19's, some members have but what's the point of having all that performance and then adding 19's and shit? WTF? goals here seem a little... mixed. The corksport FMIC core on the 6 is pretty damn large (I have one) - it fits - they have core measurements on their website, I have it in writing if you need it to get one that will fit. You of course will need to make your own brackets - you also need to cut your rad core supports and make appropriate core supports from metal.

I talk BHP because most europeans talk. I measure my car as whp on a dynapack, but most of us here don't understand how much is whp.
I'm not talking bhp to brag, I'm talking because that's the language I learned.

It's not that I want 19s. I already have them. Bought them for a lot of money, if I don't sell them decently, I will use them. And there are cars with 700+ hp and 20 inch wheels. I don't see the issue, since I don't track the car. My question was that maybe 19s will rub regardless of fenders and I don't want to make a mess of it.

What CS IC? The one with the intake instead of the stock IC?

[Omega]

Originally Posted by lsstefan It's not that I want 19s. I already have them. Bought them for a lot of money, if I don't sell them decently, I will use them.

@Alpha; is the only person I know using 19's on a MS6 - he might be able to provide some guidance on fitment here or at least what offset/width etc his wheels are and what he had to do. I know his wheels are one-off custom made so he may have had to do less fiddling.

Mazdazilla6 is right, CS FMIC's are no longer made, my point though was a 3" intercooler will fit behind the stock crashbar if you get the right horizontal/vertical heights. I tried looking for my old email between CS and I that had the dimensions but apparently it was really old (<4yrs) and got deleted out.

[Mazdazilla6]

It's the same intercooler, just there's a different intake. Either way they haven't sold it for quite some time.

The largest issue with bhp is that it's often corrected out the ass. It's not very well known but most companies that certify things to a certain power have them tested on an engine dyno in a controlled cell and the results are corrected to a J607 correction factor. It's a very dated correction and usually results in numbers 10-15% higher than what is real. To make matters worse people then think that they are talking about whp which is another 10-20% difference. See how things can easily get mixed up/wrong? I'm well aware that most europeans use bhp but as I said, I (most of us) prefer whp as it's a measured value so there's much less speculation, more concrete results.

[Alpha]

I'm running 20x9s with a +42 offset. Dead nuts flush with the fenders.

I did roll the rears for a nice and safe fitment.

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Originally Posted by Alpha I'm running 20x9s with a +42 offset. Dead nuts flush with the fenders. I did roll the rears for a nice and safe fitment. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

Or you could save a S (*T ton of money and just buy my car turnkey haha!

The cleanest MS6 on the planet...

Fully built, Full-Race EFR 7163, and it makes over 400 AWHP on a 93/E85 blend... Over 500 if you went with AUX fueling.

No expenses spared.

LMK!





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[Omega]

You want to sell it now?!?! lol My bad 20's not 19's -- even better lol

[Alpha]

Originally Posted by Omega You want to sell it now?!?! lol My bad 20's not 19's -- even better lol

I would for the right price... I've built a few cars over the years

This one's definitely unique and drives so well that it's definitely one of my favorites


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[Thor Hammer]

19's fit fine if you don't go too low on offset. Stock offset is +53mm for your reference. 18x9 at 45 offset is almost flush and only requires a roll in the rear. Maybe a tad in front. +40 offset is considered aggressive. I know of one MS6 on TSW Interlagos in 19"

New shoes, new shoes, new shooooes

Keep in mind you'll need to run 35 series tires on 19's. If your roads are as shitty as here in the California Bay Area you wont like the ride as you will feel every bump. Also, tires for 18's are cheaper. Win.

[Mazdazilla6]

A TR11 intercooler will fit behind the stock crashbar but you will have to trim the core support. I used one on my last ms6.

[GroceryGtr]

As others pointed out chasing bhp is kinda silly. Everyone works with whp figures. Can you get to 320whp on the K04, sure... but why would you want to? It would make your life overly difficult and at those boost levels you're going to negatively affect your DD requirement. K04s don't last long at high boost levels. To me DD means reliable and easy to drive, so get to that whp goal the correct way and go with a bigger turbo. CS and BNR S3 have both shown they can get into the low 300s on pump gas. Add E85 and you'll have even more fun. Supporting modes should include upgraded ic, hpfp internals, 3" intake, AP, DP, 3 bar upgrade, ebc, and the basic stuff like vcts delete, egr cleanup, etc. When you do the clutch you'll probably want to swap the caps on your xfercase. You'll have it out anyways and 8 times out of 10 they need to be cracked open for a reseal anywyays. Non power wise check the condition of your mounts, namely diff mounts for sheared bolts and RMM as that tends to be the first to go under abuse.

Those suspensions you listed are garbage, find the gigantic suspension thread on here for better options. Also check the 'will it fit' thread for wheel questions.

There are a ton of guys/gals on here with 350-400whp DD builds, myself included. So do your research and you should find more info than you'll ever need to hit your goals.

[Omega]

Originally Posted by GroceryGtr Can you get to 320whp on the K04, sure... but why would you want to? It would make your life overly difficult and at those boost levels you're going to negatively affect your DD requirement. K04s don't last long at high boost levels.

I agree with the rest of your post however this really isn't true. 20PSI really isn't a "high boost level" for the K04 - and there's many more factors to keep in mind such as pressure drop/actual pressure ratio to hit desired boost...

I've been DD'ing my K04 ~310whp 330ft/lbs on e85 for the last 20k miles, it's doing just fine. @sheston; has been beating the shit out of his k04 and it's still good. There's many factors to turbo reliability, many people push 20-22psi without the turbo shitting the bed. They usually fail due to other reasons (it's just a poorly designed seal), not due to pushing higher boost levels. Ask BNR their opinion...

However yes, a larger turbo would be ideal for the power band in general - not required for DD reliability.

[GroceryGtr]

Omega - I would agree that you can get numerous miles out of a higher than stock psi K04, but I would argue that running the K04 at the top of it efficiency, say 21-22psi, combined with the 270 degree thrust collar and basic journal bearing providing barely adequate friction reduction/cooling does indeed play a role in reducing the overall life of the turbo. Not to mention air gets really really hot when you are that far up on the efficiency map for the K04, which tends to cause other issues that need to be addressed. Again, not that it can't be addressed. My opinion was centered around the premise that you would want the most reliability with the least amount of fuss possible for a DD build, or at least in my book those two are always always priority #1 & #2 .

Can you get thousands of miles out of the stock K04 running 20+ psi? Sure, tons of people are doing it. Does the increased workload increase the possibility of a failure? Absolutely.

So you are correct that failure is not directly related to increased boost, but I would contend increased boost certainly doesn't help the situation. So for a car you need to reliably start every morning(without pulling a james bond) to drive to work/school/isis training I'd say an upgraded turbo is a very good idea if you'd like to pursue north of 300whp.

Again just my 2 cents, certainly lots of valid opinions and experiences on both sides of the fence.

[lsstefan]

Hello again peeps.
Thank you all for the response.
Due to some financial issues I decided to keep my current car, but now it has failed me miserably and I'm keen on changing it asap. Thus back to an mps.
Reading back to his thread, man was I newbier last year. Now I dream bigger and better of course.
Here's my dillema: 60-80k miles and 4k $ extra cost vs 130-140k miles?
I am more inclined for the high mileage one, because I can use the 4k to forge the internals, replace almost everything, make it brand new, while on the low mileage one, at some point in the future I might need to do this.
While I might not need forged engine, I want it.
I won't run Meth or Exx, because I don't have access(meth I do, but don't want), will just max out the fuel pump and be done with it. BNR S3 it is.
How good is the TB injector kit? The Ecoboost platform has this issues also, and some suggested the fuel doesn't split equally to all cylinders. I have yet to find a port injection rail like the ones for Focus ST.

[Fstrnyou]

Port injection options are (in no particular order):
Damond FoST kit
Corksport
JMF
16W Fab