MS3 Gen1 Starting Issue

[Burrandino92]

Here's a 16 second video of my issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owfuOgmOlLk

Battery has been sitting on a maintainer for a couple years, but otherwise is new (although it is a crappy Walmart battery). Starter was new 2 years ago and has been sitting with my car. I just finished an engine rebuild that started with poor cranking symptoms like this (rebuild was worth it anyway because of poor compression). When I cranked the engine by hand (while doing timing and testing my progress) it was fairly easy to turn.

I'm getting spark and fuel just fine. New camshaft positioning sensor is installed correctly. I don't have a code reader, but I will order one tonight.

Any helpful advice will be appreciated.

Edit:
I will be updating this as I go. Please look at my latest post for current situation.

[Orangatang]

Have you tried a new battery for shits and giggles or even had the current one tested?

[Burrandino92]

I just replaced the battery. I had a 26R from walmart, and apparently that is the wrong one. Got a 35 Gold from Autozone, and it will definitely crank longer but same issue.

[Orangatang]

Have you tried messing with the starter relay at all. Testing it, swapping it? relay is cheaper than pulling starter and bench testing.
Before a starter rebuild I would at least try to bench test it first(just batteries and cables).

[Burrandino92]

Ok I'll try testing/swapping relay and pull that starter out and bench test it afterward. It's a Duralast starter. Any recommendations on where to buy a different starter if this one is no good?

[Burrandino92]

Starter Relay seems to be working fine. I jumped the relay port to see if it made any difference, and symptoms were the same.

Bench tested the starter. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vfn...ature=youtu.be. Not particularly powerful, idk if this is a good test or not.

What is really confusing me is how slow the starter repetitions are. Every time I have ever heard a car start, I hear very quick fast electrical pules like dadadadadada VROOM. Mine sounds like WRRRrrrr WRRRrrrr....

Got a code reader, and my car is showing these error codes:
-P0222 TP sensor No.2 circuit low input ON 1 CCM
-P0123 TP sensor No.1 circuit high input ON 1 CCM

How can I be getting low AND high input on that sensor?

I'm also getting an ABS error U2023, though I don't think that is related.

[Burrandino92]

Reconnected TPS connector and P0222 and P0123 are cleared and gone.

Now I still get a blinking CEL. When I hook up the tool, I get a "0 dtc" What is a DTC? Still researching.

Edit:
"Diagnostic Trouble Code". I am assuming this means I am getting 0 trouble codes, although there is a yellow light on the Innova 3020 Scan Tool, which means, "...there is a possible problem. A 'Pending' DTC is present and/or some of the vehicle's emission monitors have not run their diagnostic testing." (Innova 3020 Owner's Manual)

[Burrandino92]

I notice when I turn the key to "ON", I hear a clicking sound coming from the left side of the battery box, where my main wiring harness connects. I also hear a buzzing sound coming from the throttle plate motor, and if I try to manually open the throttle plate, there is resistance from the motor. When the car is off I can manually open the throttle just fine.

[Burrandino92]

Disconnected the TPS and reconnected with the car ON. TPS seems to 'sweep' properly now. Tried starting the car. Cranking was rough as before then I hear a low "thoomf" sound come from the exhaust pipe. Suddenly engine is cranking much more easily and this is what it sounds like now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX8X...ature=youtu.be

Still not starting however. Will run a compression test and see what I get.

[Burrandino92]

Leak down test. Cylinders 1, 3 and 4 are leaking into exhaust and intake. Cylinder 2 is only leaking into intake. Guess I gotta take this apart and see what's up.

Edit:
Valve cover off and running leak down on Cylinder 1 at TDC. Timing looks to be correct. Cams on cylinder 1 are facing each other at 45, and 20th tooth counter-clockwise of gap in crank pulley is lined up with CPS. Seems that I am getting leakage into all cylinders, as when I cover each spark plug hole with my finger, the noise changes. Blown head gasket? I had the head and top of block decked before the rebuild, and I put on a new gasket. I have no idea what could have caused this to happen on a new rebuild... Why would the pressure in the cylinders just keep building like this?

[kTaLgsTo]

Keep us informed, as for starter, I am pretty sure it is load dependent on how fast/hard it spins

[Burrandino92]

I'm going to conserve my new fluids and pull the engine and head tomorrow to take a look. I really don't think I bent any valves, but I guess they might not have been sealing perfectly when I put everything back together. When I go to reinstall the head I will definitely do a leakdown test before putting everything back in the car.

[1stgen]

Hello,

Were you able to figure out the cause of this issue?

I am having what seems to be the exact same problem with my newly acquired 2007 MS3. I purchased the car knowing that it would need some work to get it back on the road. I learned from the previous owner that it would not start and that he suspected it needed a fuel pump. Immediately after getting the car home, I installed a new Walmart group 35 battery and tried to start it. It cranked at a normal speed but failed to start. While cranking, I could hear a slight "puff, puff, puff" sound from the exhaust which I assume is the compression cycle. The battery wore down from several failed attempts to start it. I put it on a trickle charger for a day or so. Before attempting to start it again, I cycled the key several times in order to listen closely to make sure that the in-tank fuel pump was priming. The in-tank pump was certainly running, but sounded to me like it could be on it's way out. Instead of the typical high pitch humming sound, it was making more of a lower pitch scratchy sound. After I had cycled the key about 6-10 times to listen to this sound, I went ahead and tried to start the car. This time it started and ran for a few seconds! It idled somewhat rough for about 5 seconds then I gave it some throttle which seemed to bring the rpms up a little right before it stalled. After that, I tried to restart it and, instead of cranking like normal, this time it cranked extremely slowly. I figured the battery just needed to be recharged again and put the trickle charger back on it. A few hours later, I tried to start it again. Same result. While cranking, starter sounds like it can barely move. Also, dash lights go dim during this slow cranking. Okay. I figured the battery must be bad. Took it back to Walmart to test and they said it was good. Showed me that it had 700+ cranking amps. I reinstalled the battery and then just to make sure, I ran jumper cables from another vehicle to it. Same slow cranking. Knowing the battery was good, I figured I must have burned up the starter. Purchased a starter and spent 3 hours swapping it out. No dice - same slow cranking. Also I had bench tested both starters and both seem to function fine. Battery terminals are clean and wires look good. I tried switching out the starter relay - no change. Finally gave up and got on google. Found this thread with the exact same issues that I am having. The Youtube video link in the first post of the initial starting issue is exactly what my car is doing now. It seems weird that it cranked fine, then all of the sudden started this "slow-motion" cranking. Really hoping to find a solution.

[bimbybugz]

Did someone find a solution for this issueor similar to this?

[Db09ms3]

Butt finger worked

[Burrandino92]

Ran out of time and money (had a kid). Finally got back to it.

I missed one very important step. I didn't have the right tool to install my valve springs easily, so I did what I could with the tools that I had. I lapped my valves as well. After doing all of this and not checking my valve clearances, my cams were always pushing several valves open. Luckily I didn't damage the valves.

I worked with a friend and got my engine apart and my cylinder head off last night. I will reinstall my valves and then check clearances properly before ordering new buckets. Once I've got it back together it should fire right up. I'll come back here in a few days and say what's up.