New MS6 owner, needs engine, questions...

[ehron]

Hello all. I just picked up a 2007 MS6 with 84k miles. Clean, felt fine when I test drove it, no smoking turbo. I thought I had found a great deal. Until I read about the timing chain problems, and realized I needed to update the VVT and timing chain. Upon disassembling to do so I noticed a lot of oil in the intake pipes.

Great! Did a compression test, 160-180-154-155. So I'm within a couple of PSI of acceptable difference between cylinders according to the FSM. Totally awesome! (didn't do a leak down yet). It's my daily driver so I need it to not explode unexpectedly. Seems like a new engine is in order. Would you all agree?

Given that I am not a smart man I traded my perfectly reliable and boring Accord for a shiny MS6 only to find it appears to need a new engine. So I have a few questions.

First, I found a L3M602300M long block for ~$3700 from an online mazda parts site that is based in the city in which I live. Does anyone know the current cost for that from Mazda Motorsports? I am not a member, and would like to fix this sooner rather than later, but if it's a few hundred dollars worth of difference it may be worthwhile to pay the $85 join the SCCA and MSM. I haven't been to an autocross in a decade, but hey, I'm sure it'd be fun, and the kids seats in the back are sure to help me get around the parking lot a little faster. Alternatively I could get the rebuilt long block from Edge, but I don't have a business address to have it shipped to so I'm not sure how I could go about getting it to my house.

Second, I had planned on picking up the LUK OEM clutch kit and a Fidanza flywheel as I am sure if the previous owner managed to blow the engine in under 100k miles I'm sure the clutch is close to death as well. Do I need new flywheel bolts?

Third, what am I missing? I am new to the MS6. What else should I replace while the engine is out of the car?

I had planned on doing it myself, but if anyone knows of a reputable shop in the Atlanta area that will install a new long block for a reasonable amount of money please let me know.

Thanks!

[Omega]

$3099 for L3M602300M (MSM) + shipping from CA more than likely (or possibly GA depending on warehouse). You could just have a gauge that's not super accurate.... some blow-by won't kill you motors will have more blow-by as they age.

If you want it at 100% then you will probably want to replace but it doesn't mean it will necessarily be unreliable just due to "numbers". Really depends on if it's running correctly etc, if it feels strong I probably wouldn't touch it until you need to.

Also it's kind of critical to understand if you're trying to make a bunch of HP (don't expect the same reliability that you mentioned in your post if you do) or if you're just looking to keep it mainly stock. Obviously if you're looking to mod it quite a bit then you might want a fresh motor...

[ehron]

Thank you for the response Omega. It will remain stock. The previous owner put an intake, an exhaust, and a rear motor mount on it. It is my primary means of transportation. It doesn't need to have 400 HP. Ten years ago I would have felt differently, but I'm an old man now.

It does need to be reliable, however. I read some accounts of people's engines letting go when they were just cruising along on the freeway at 65. That has me worried. I need to be able to rely upon the car to make a three hour drive if I need to go see a customer.

Thanks again.

[f15ms6]

Those numbers, dont look too bad like mentioned above. Is your timing chain rattling at startup? If thats not the case you will be fine.

If you sure the engine needs to be replaced you can look for MS3 and CX7 engines. The CX7 engine is more abundant and its probably cheaper to find.

With regard to the Clutch/flywheel setup. The Luk/Fidanza is a good setup, so it will be a good idea if you are just planning to Daily drive the car with the occasional Spirited driving. I just installed that setup on my Ms6 and so far its great I have been driving it for 3 weeks now. I went with Luk oem since I am not looking to make a lot of power, my goals are to get some where around 300whp which the oem clutch can handle with no problem. The fidanza flywheel seems to be a popular choice, cost/value. Since the OEM flywheel can cost over $500 alone

[Omega]

@ehron; Having excessive blow-by isn't going to cause a rod to create a window in your motor. That is due to excessive torque or high load applications (significant boost in 5th/6th below 3k instead of downshifting or bogging the motor going up a hill). The high amount of torque generated at low rpm will cause the rods to weaken and eventually break resulting in the motor "letting go". This typically happens if someone is too lazy to downshift to pass someone while cruising in 6th gear.

Blow-by will cause your motor to consume more oil, it WILL cause your intake to be dirty, it WILL degrade your catalytic converter faster, it WILL deposit oil on the intake valves more quickly but it's not going to cause your car to blow up over night. It's possible you could have cracked ringlands but I doubt it's on 3 cylinders unless it was terribly mistreated. It just looks like a motor that saw a lot of wear and tear. If you put a few drops of oil in the cylinder and compression goes up it's probably just blow-by (can never be sure though!).

This may seem like a silly question but I don't want to make an assumption - this was done while the engine was hot/recently driven correct? If you want the car to last a long time and learn about it's quirks spend some time searching/learning. The 2 most common of failures (rod out block/cracked ringlands) don't typically happen on stock motors and it may last you quite a bit. Are you having any major drive-ability issues like I asked about earlier? Misfires? Also as @f15ms6; mentioned VVT is fine if it's within spec I wouldn't worry about it unless you have chain rattle or if you pull off the valve cover and see chain slap.

[Amnesiac]

Originally Posted by ehron It does need to be reliable, however. I read some accounts of people's engines letting go when they were just cruising along on the freeway at 65. That has me worried. I need to be able to rely upon the car to make a three hour drive if I need to go see a customer.

Most of those issues were related to problems with the stock tune. At this point if you buy versatune or a cobb ap and go to a reputable e-tuner you should be in good shape.

[ehron]

I definitely need a new timing chain. It has quite a bit of play when I reach in and move it around through the oil fill hole.

The compression results were on a warm engine. I poured a little oil in the cylinders that were in the 150s, and both rose to roughly 170 so some leakage is occurring past the rings. I guess I need to do a leak down test today.

I don't want to replace the engine as that will cost more than half of what I paid for the car, but upon reading many threads from this forum as I tried to familiarize myself with the platform I got awfully nervous.

I do have excessive oil consumption as well. I went from the full mark on the dip stick to the half full mark after about 100 miles of driving. Granted, it is still using the stock PCV system, no catch can so I'm not sure if that would lessen that issue. I have also not cleaned the intake valves, and I suspect the previous owner hasn't either.

Perhaps I should upgrade the PCV system, clean the intake valves, replace the vvt actuator and timing chain, and hope for the best? It does only have 84k miles on it so I certainly didn't expect to be swapping the block this early in the vehicles life.

[f15ms6]

Originally Posted by ehron I definitely need a new timing chain. It has quite a bit of play when I reach in and move it around through the oil fill hole.

Bro like I said in my first comment, thats not how you check the tension.. If Cyl 1 its not at TDC you will not read the right tension.

1-Remove TMIC, Remove coil/Spark plug for Cyl 1(Far Left)
2-Either remove your Passenger front wheel or turn it all the way to the left
3-Use a 17mm socket with a braker bar and exentions to turn the crank bolt
4-Put a long screw driver in Cyl 1 and rotate the crank bolt until Cyl 1 reaches TDC.
5-Now you can check the tension of the chain by either just removing the oil cap or removing the whole valve cover to check the tension and look for scratch marks fromt the chain.

Originally Posted by ehron The compression results were on a warm engine. I poured a little oil in the cylinders that were in the 150s, and both rose to roughly 170 so some leakage is occurring past the rings. I guess I need to do a leak down test today. I don't want to replace the engine as that will cost more than half of what I paid for the car, but upon reading many threads from this forum as I tried to familiarize myself with the platform I got awfully nervous. I do have excessive oil consumption as well. I went from the full mark on the dip stick to the half full mark after about 100 miles of driving. Granted, it is still using the stock PCV system, no catch can so I'm not sure if that would lessen that issue. I have also not cleaned the intake valves, and I suspect the previous owner hasn't either. Perhaps I should upgrade the PCV system, clean the intake valves, replace the vvt actuator and timing chain, and hope for the best? It does only have 84k miles on it so I certainly didn't expect to be swapping the block this early in the vehicles life.

If the psi numbers went up it means your piston rings are worn, but again your valve could also be dirty enough to the point that they are not closing completely. Yeah cleaning the valve and replacing the PCV is a good start. There are no pcv upgrades pretty much your options are what they sell at Rockauto or getting the oem from the dealer.

[ehron]

@f15ms6, yes, there is a very loud rattle at startup. That's why I checked the chain tension, albeit apparently incorrectly, to begin with.

If the disparity between cylinders doesn't worry you all then that leaves the oil consumption as my biggest worry. I guess I'll replace the PCV and see if that lessens it before shocking my wallet with a new engine.

[f15ms6]

Originally Posted by ehron @f15ms6, yes, there is a very loud rattle at startup. That's why I checked the chain tension, albeit apparently incorrectly, to begin with. If the disparity between cylinders doesn't worry you all then that leaves the oil consumption as my biggest worry. I guess I'll replace the PCV and see if that lessens it before shocking my wallet with a new engine.

Got it, I guess I missed that part in the earlier comments were you said you heard the rattle. The disparaty bettween Cylinders is with in spec, so you are goodl..

Here are the Cyl compression specs, while its nice to see them at 170-180 across the board, but 155, 160, 180 you are still with in the accepatable difference between cyl.

[Big Dog]

Best option is to get a new engine from Edge. If my motor blew today it would be on a credit card a d on its way here tomorrow. You'll have a drop in and go motor that has no issues with up to date parts. I would suggest you go that route and then do the basic reliability/maintenance mods and then go from there.........unless you wanna scrap it and buy mine. Lol.

[TiGraySpeed6]

Well, I think his local Mazda source would be a better deal in his case.

That's a virgin new Mazda long block, oil pan to valve cover including spark plugs for ~$3700 and no shipping cost (local to him) & no core charge. A new set of injector seals, probably worth it to send the injectors off to get cleaned & new filter screens installed in em, and a new clutch/fw, random gaskets like intake & exhaust, fluids & such.

With the Edge, he's looking at $3940+ core charge & shipping for a reman long block with no oil pan or valve cover, plus the time & hassle of shipping both ways to return the core, or giving up the $460 core charge. Plus all the other stuff. And tho it's minor, they say it only ships to business address.

Both the above are plus tax of course.

FWIW, MSM will have it to his driveway for under $3500, shipped & taxed. No core.

And there are always other things that come up & need money- antifreeze, new belt etc.

Gotta say tho, the piece of mind of having a virgin new engine is pretty sweet. Mine came from MSM.

[ehron]

Thank you all for your suggestions and information. You guys really do seem to be a great community!

I'm still deciding what to do. I was traveling for work for the last couple of weeks so as of yet I've taken no action. I have this problem with replacing parts. You know, that syndrome that sounds something like, "Well, if I'm tearing into the engine to replace the timing chain with so-so compression I may as well replace the engine, and if I'm replacing the engine I may as well replace the turbo. And if I'm replacing the turbo I may as well just get a turbo kit. And if I'm getting a new turbo kit I may as well get a block with forged internals..." and on and on. Traditionally I've done a very poor job of keeping cars anywhere close to stock, and I have other things to spend my money on these days.

Part of me wants to just sell the car, even if I incur a loss, along with my other toy cars and just get a truck so I can fully embrace the suburbanite lifestyle I find myself surrounded by. After all, I can't fit much mulch or lumber in the back of the MS6, and the house always needs something now doesn't it? Of course, the reason I didn't get one in the first place was I don't want to spend $30k or more on a vehicle.

Oh well, thanks for all of your help. I'm going to mull it over a bit longer I think. If you want a black 2007 MS6 that is super clean with 84k miles on it I may no a guy with one for sale. Maybe.