Pennzoil Platinum vs Pennzoil Ultra Platinum

[MunkieJunkie]

DISCLAIMER: This thread is purely to compare the differences between Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Platinum Ultra.


So, I was curious which of these two oils would be better for my application. I figured I may as well start a thread in case it could help anyone in the future.




Via https://bobistheoilguy.com/pennzoil-q-a/

"Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus Technology is formulated to contain additional cleansing technology and additional friction modifiers to maintain lower friction between moving parts."


"Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology provide excellent performance in low temperatures thanks to the superior low temperature pumpability of PurePlus™ base oils. Pennzoil Platinum® Full Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology SAE 0W-30 and 0W-40 will still pump in temperatures as low as -40°F!"

What this translates to is basically better additives, and possibly better low temp durability/performance. I assume for the regular MS3 owner PP will be more than adequate, but PP Ultra will provide added protection if wanted.


Edit: Checked out https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...pics/3160117/2. These guys really liked to beat around the bush, but what I gather they're generally interchangeable. The only difference being "Ultra has a better add pack, higher TBN and about the best Nocak. Both are approved for dexos." Anyone care to explain that in simpler terms?

AFTER RESEARCH AND OTHER CONTRIBUTIONS THE DIFFERENCES ARE AS FOLLOWS:

-PP Ultra has a better pack and mixture of additives.

-PP Ultra is possibly better in low temperature environments.

-PP Ultra is more suited for high HP applications

-PP Ultra is better at combating fuel dilution than it's counterpart.

Member contributions:

From GroceryGtr "I work with the pen oil guys and asked them about the difference when it first came out. They designed this specifically for some of the higher hp applications oems have and to address some of the unique issues presented by DI engines as they are becoming more common. That said they did point out that the regular platinum formulation will work just fine from a lubrication perspective."

From GotoVato "From what I've picked up, the biggest difference between the two comes down to fuel dilution properties. Platinum was pretty good at combating it, ultra platinum was even better. The harder you drove, the better ultra platinum was for you. If you were a lighter footed driver regular platinum would be just fine.

[sheston]

Rotella

[sharksinspace]

It's ULTRA better!!!

[tegxsi]

Rotella t6 or German Castro 0w-40

[MS3Shadow]

Ultra Rotella

Sent from my Pixel XL

[mituc]

Just use any full synthetic good oil, as long as you make sure the engine doesn't burn it and you change it when you should it's all good.
If you want to go bananas about it then use a true synthetic like Redline.

Over the winter I use the God of 0w40 full synthetic oils (because the true synthetics burn with a lot more soot even though they create a lot less vapours) which is the Mobil 1 0w40 - I'm not sure if you can source it over there though. If you think of using the Mobil1 mind that the 0w40 (New Life it's called here) is the only decent oil from them, don't use the X3000 or other crap.

During summer I prefer using true synthetic oils like Redline, Motul Ester Sport (beware, Motul generally makes full, not true synthetic oils, the ones with esters are the ones you need), or Millers CFS NT which you can source in the US and Canada but probably for about the same price I source here the Redline, which is about $20/quart.

If winter in your location is not harsh then as I said, just use a good oil. Also, it may not make sense to go true synthetic if you don't hood your car too much or go to the track.

Over here the Pennzoil stuff is branded as Shell. So Pennzoil Ultra is Shell Helix Ultra and it's a pretty decent oil and yes, you can use that no problem.

Oils are like tires, or like cars. You need to find a good product that suits your driving habits.
You can't get Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2s to drive around town 20 miles a day, and you can't get Michelin Energy Saver or Pilot Primacy to go do track events. Or you can't buy an awesome MX5 to get your kids to school, you'll need a 3/6/CX 5/9 for that, or a B series if you do farming.
However, people will tell you that "this" is a better tire/oil/car/blender than "that", which may be true to an extent or from a point of view/analysis, but these statements contain only partial truth, not the absolute truth. So you need to use your judgement a bit as well, and even try a few different products before you take a final decision.

So whatever oil you chose switch away from it the second you see oil consumption significantly more than you used do (also accounting for the weather and the type of driving you did).

The Shell Rotella... well, this oil was initially released on the market as diesel truck oil. It had a lot of detergents and creating a strong film, but it was not suitable for high RPM engines. A lot of performance car owners (subaru, honda, mazda, and so on, engines with tight tolerances that needed a 0 or 5 grade weight for cold and 30/40 for the hot weight) gummed up their engines and piston rings back in the early/mid and even late 2000's because the oil was evaporating quite quickly and people were rrunning into various engine issues because of that (cracked ringlands, ovalled cylinders, huge carbon deposits on the valves and pistons on the DI engines, you name it). Pretty much everybody was blaming the driving habits (you added an intake, put in supposedly better oil, so you must be driving like an animal, right?), but people who were opening up those engines (if there was an engine left to open, and didn't open itself on the highway) were like "wtf?!".
Now the Rotella is also rated for use in petrol engines. New times - new and better additives, right? So it must be suitable for our engines, and if you use some sort of port injection (single port meth, or multiport meth/Ethanol) you should be fine.

[MunkieJunkie]

Thanks for the info Mituc, but the main purpose of the thread was to just compare PP to PP Ultra.

I completely agree, though. If I really wanted to run a true synthetic I'd run Motul/Redline/Amsoil. But when I ran Rotella T6 I always changed at 3k miles, and checked at every fill up to make sure it wasn't burning too much. The additives in it are great, and the high Zinc content is great for turbos. However, it's not equal to other synthetics and I think that's where people go wrong.

[mituc]

Get the Ultra Platinum then, 0w40.

About the high zinc content oils:

In recent years there have been entirely too many wiped cam lobes and ruined lifter failures in traditional American flat tappet engines, even though a variety of well respected brand name parts were typically used. These failures involved people using various high zinc oils, various high zinc Break-In oils, various Diesel oils, and various oils with aftermarket zinc additives added to the oil. They believed that any high zinc oil concoction is all they needed for wear protection during flat tappet engine break-in and after break-in. But, all of those failures have proven over and over again, that their belief in high zinc was nothing more than a MYTH, just as my test data has shown. A high level of zinc/phos is simply no guarantee of providing sufficient wear protection. And to make matters even worse, excessively high levels of zinc/phos can actually “cause” DAMAGE your engine, rather than “prevent” it. Motor Oil Industry testing has found that motor oils with more than 1,400 ppm ZDDP, INCREASED long-term wear. And it was also found that motor oils with more than 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling (pitting and flaking). The ZDDP value is simply the average of the zinc and the phosphorus values, then rounded down to the nearest 100 ppm (parts per million).

You can read the rest of the article here: https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

[MunkieJunkie]

Again, thank you for the info but discussing whether or not a high zinc content is good for engines was not the purpose of this thread. I've ran Rotella for many many miles and had zero issues. If the PP or PP Ultra was a high zinc content oil i could understand how it would pertain and be relevant/useful to this thread.

[sharksinspace]

If Rotella wasn't good for our engines for any reason; I'm positive that we as a community would know by now.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace If Rotella wasn't good for our engines for any reason; I'm positive that we as a community would know by now.

Inspect your intake valves and the top of the pistons.

[sharksinspace]

Dirty valves are the nature of DI and an issue on these cars regardless of oil type, what does that have to do with Rotella? Enough guys have run it for long enough sans issue, and while coming back with clean and problem-free oil analysis results, that you cannot convince me that it's harmful to use in our MZRs.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace you cannot convince me that it's harmful to use in our MZRs.

I'm not trying to and actually I don't think it's harmful for these engines. At least in the past it used to contaminate the engines significantly more than other oils despite the fact that the additives package for trucks gave it a significantly higher fuel contamination resistance.

[LILREDROCKET]

Platinum 5w30 should be fine, I would change it at the latest every 3500 miles.


I like the t6 in mine.

[GroceryGtr]

I work with the pen oil guys and asked them about the difference when it first came out. They designed this specifically for some of the higher hp applications oems have and to address some of the unique issues presented by DI engines as they are becoming more common. That said they did point out that the regular platinum formulation will work just fine from a lubrication perspective.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[gotovato]

From what I've picked up, the biggest difference between the two comes down to fuel dilution properties. Platinum was pretty good at combating it, ultra platinum was even better. Coming from the veloster turbo world that was a huge topic all over the forums. The harder you drove, the better ultra platinum was for you. If you were a lighter footed driver regular platinum would be just fine.

[shamie]

Originally Posted by sharksinspace If Rotella wasn't good for our engines for any reason; I'm positive that we as a community would know by now.

I thought the community was pretty clear that Rotella was not the oil to use if you were running full E. Black death.

[sharksinspace]

Originally Posted by shamie I thought the community was pretty clear that Rotella was not the oil to use if you were running full E. Black death.

Is that limited to only Rotella? My understanding, as someone who has not heavily researched running E due to lack of availability where I live, was that the black death is an issue with our fuel pumps and running E in general when people start going too heavy on the mix.

[LILREDROCKET]

I also assumed the black death was due too a high E/mix content all the time, not necessarily any oil.

[shamie]

Yes its if you run full E with oils that don't have a certain formula (which I can't find right now). I know that Castrol Edge and a Royal Purple among many others had the formula. Rotella did not.

[MunkieJunkie]

Thanks for the info guys, it's updated.

[dale_gribble]

I did quite a bit of reading on this while writing this thread (More info regarding Rotella T6 in our engines) it's quite interesting. If you roll up the oil specifications, it comes down to a couple important things for DI motors: Total Base Number (KOH/g, ASTM2896) which is the reserve alkalinity of an oil to neutralize contaminants and NOACK as mentioned above (ASTM D5800), which measures the evaporative loss of oil.

Basically, you want a lower NOACK #, and a higher TBN. This would be an oil that can neutralize contaminants and minimize evaporative loss of oil. Based on my reading, it seems the NOACK may be more important, since the TBN number can be mitigated by more frequent oil changes. There seems to be a tradeoff of TBN vs. NOACK, that is based on the ones I read, higher TBN oils had lower NOACKs and vice versa.

Pennzoil Platinum Ultra does not publish their TBNs, but the NOACK is higher than Pennzoil Platinum which would lead me away from it. Presumably their TBN is higher, but it isn't published so who knows. Pennzoil Platinum does fine in our cars, but I would keep the oil changes under 5k miles (4k-4.5k).

[flapjack]

The Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40 is what I use. Rotella T6 is cheap and considered a group III (low quality) oil. Group III oils are made through severe hydrocracking, which means they started out as crude oil. In the USA group III oils are allowed to be called "synthetic" due to looser regulations, but in other countries are considered non-synthetic.

In our motors, using group IV and group V oils adds to the reliability aspect because of higher detergent levels and reduced calcium levels. LSPI is the main reason as to why these motors blow rods. Using higher quality/detergent oils can decrease the chance of this happening to your car.

Check out the article posted by Stratified about LSPI and previous posts by Lex concerning oil types and LSPI.

Good group IV and group V oil brands:

Redline
Amsoil Euro
Pennzoil Platinum Euro
Mobil 1 European Formula

[nycMS3]

I have been using pennzoil platinum since my car had 1k miles and now it's at 80k. I haven't noticed any oil loss with every oil change, seems to be doing it's job. And I change my oil every 3.5k miles

Also how would you know if your pennzoil is European ? I buy my oil from Walmart, cheap as fuck

[GroceryGtr]

Originally Posted by nycMS3 I have been using pennzoil platinum since my car had 1k miles and now it's at 80k. I haven't noticed any oil loss with every oil change, seems to be doing it's job. And I change my oil every 3.5k miles Also how would you know if your pennzoil is European ? I buy my oil from Walmart, cheap as fuck

Euro is a specific formulation that is only available in certain weights. It will say Euro on the label. Its generally when you get into the 5 and 0 weights.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by GroceryGtr It will say Euro on the label. Its generally when you get into the 5 and 0 weights.

...and probably mid-SAPS.

[Atomic41]

So to resume

for our speed3 the best :

Winter : 0W-40 Mobil 1
Summer : 5W-30 True Synthetic

Do you know if this oil => Liqui Moly 2041

Could be a good choice for summer use ???

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by nycMS3 I have been using pennzoil platinum since my car had 1k miles and now it's at 80k. I haven't noticed any oil loss with every oil change, seems to be doing it's job. And I change my oil every 3.5k miles Also how would you know if your pennzoil is European ? I buy my oil from Walmart, cheap as fuck

I have been using Rotella T6 (Penzoil is also shell, btw) since the ‘free’ oil changes ended at 30k, every 3-4k I change it, no loss either... but we fuel dilute like mo-fos so I would expect more on the stick not less? UOA’s suggest I can go further but T6 is cheap and I actually worry more about the filter than I do the oil, original mobil 1 claimed 20k plus intervals and they were right, except it would be a really good idea to change your filter sooner and add a little oil...

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Atomic41 So to resume for our speed3 the best : Winter : 0W-40 Mobil 1 Summer : 5W-30 True Synthetic Do you know if this oil => Liqui Moly 2041 Could be a good choice for summer use ???

Liqui Moly makes good oils. Also 2041 is a 5w40 oil so a lot better than whatever 5w30 for our cars. Especially on factory turbo cars it's best to use a 40 hot weight oil, summer or winter. Then if you have a larger turbo it's recommended to use a w40 oil for the extra film strength under high(er) load. Otherwise our engines would tolerate from the factory even a w50 oil during hot summer days. A 10w50 would work but it's better if it's a 5w50 or even a 0w50 if you can find such oils in your area.

[Atomic41]

Originally Posted by mituc Liqui Moly makes good oils. Also 2041 is a 5w40 oil so a lot better than whatever 5w30 for our cars. Especially on factory turbo cars it's best to use a 40 hot weight oil, summer or winter. Then if you have a larger turbo it's recommended to use a w40 oil for the extra film strength under high(er) load. Otherwise our engines would tolerate from the factory even a w50 oil during hot summer days. A 10w50 would work but it's better if it's a 5w50 or even a 0w50 if you can find such oils in your area.

so

winter : Mobil 1 0w40
summer : Liqui Moly 5w40

I will have GOD oil for my speed3 ???

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by Atomic41 so winter : Mobil 1 0w40 summer : Liqui Moly 5w40 I will have GOD oil for my speed3 ???

I like the idea of 0w for winter, but here in Colorado... Temp Delta is crazy... it will be in the 60’s today; its why I no longer run snow tires, just really good all-weather...

[aackthpt]

Originally Posted by Yatta I like the idea of 0w for winter, but here in Colorado... Temp Delta is crazy... it will be in the 60’s today; its why I no longer run snow tires, just really good all-weather...

Gonna hijack for a second here, sorry. I run winter tires but from Tire Rack's "performance winter" category rather than "studless ice & snow". I've found that they basically run like all-season tires with lots of sipes - they don't get gumball-soft when the temperature goes up like the studless tires do. They probably give up a small amount of dry road traction but probably work a fair bit better in the snow than all-seasons. Anyway, just another option to consider.

End hijack. Please continue senseless, largely un-knowledgeable, unfocused discussion about motor oil.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by aackthpt Gonna hijack for a second here, sorry. I run winter tires but from Tire Rack's "performance winter" category rather than "studless ice & snow". I've found that they basically run like all-season tires with lots of sipes - they don't get gumball-soft when the temperature goes up like the studless tires do. They probably give up a small amount of dry road traction but probably work a fair bit better in the snow than all-seasons. Anyway, just another option to consider. End hijack. Please continue senseless, largely un-knowledgeable, unfocused discussion about motor oil.

Studs are allowed here but they destroy the roads... running Conti AWS... not quite as good as the Blizzaks I used to run but they are great tires; thanks though.

[aackthpt]

Originally Posted by Yatta Studs are allowed here but they destroy the roads... running Conti AWS... not quite as good as the Blizzaks I used to run but they are great tires; thanks though.

Presume you mean DWS. That's what's on my GF's car LOL. Blizzaks are made in both categories, which most don't realize. But most who have Blizzaks have the "studless" category Blizzaks not the performance winter Blizzaks. I've found the studless category Blizzaks to be epic rubbish on a dry road.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by aackthpt Presume you mean DWS. That's what's on my GF's car LOL. Blizzaks are made in both categories, which most don't realize. But most who have Blizzaks have the "studless" category Blizzaks not the performance winter Blizzaks. I've found the studless category Blizzaks to be epic rubbish on a dry road.

typed DWS, got AWS.. can you tell what I do for a living? meh.. but yes, Blizzaks were epic on snow/ice and epic fail on dry...

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Yatta I like the idea of 0w for winter, but here in Colorado... Temp Delta is crazy... it will be in the 60’s today; its why I no longer run snow tires, just really good all-weather...

The cold weight matters more during cold start-ups when the weather is cold and then maybe for the first 1-2 minutes of running. Otherwise that oil is going to be a 40 weight oil all day, summer or winter.
With a good full or true synthetic oil you don't have to worry about the film strength during cold starts of a 0w oil either, they will perform just fine.