Planning for a Complete Vehicle Rebuild

[Bingo]

I'm posting this thread mainly as bookkeeping for myself as a way to track what parts I'll be needing, but also so anyone can chime in with recommendations. In short, my cylinder 3 has 110 psi compression and holds 9/30 psi in a leakdown with air coming from the oil cap. It drives fine, but I know it's only a matter of time. So, my plan is to tear it down and rebuild it in May. I have some mechanical skill, but not enough for this, so I will be enlisting the help of my father who is more experienced, has the vast majority of needed tools, and possibly even a lift.

Details: The car (2007 MS3 GT) has 110k miles (likely ~115k by the time May comes around since I'm still in school) and I've had it since 80k. Based on its condition when I bought it, I'm under the assumption that the previous owner did ZERO maintenance to this car. It has had a very hard life.

Goals: I thought awhile about it, and there's no new car on the market that delivers exactly what I want out of a practical car to the same extent as my MS3. It's fast, gets decent fuel economy, and isn't weighed down by a comical amount of unnecessary electronic garbage (call me old fashioned, but I have no use for an "infotainment" system, I just want to drive the damn car). So, I want to treat my MS3 as my new car. I want to take the time, do it right, and have this car last me another 150k miles. In terms of mods, please see my sig. In addition to what's there, I may throw on a TP or a catted DP (if it doesn't sell) and have it tuned by Freak or Stratified. I don't really need anything over 300 whp because the MS3 is not intended to be my fun car, rather a more fun than average DD.

Budget: Essentially unlimited, but I'd like to keep it below ~4k.

With that, and again please comment if you have any suggestions, additions, or corrections, here is my planned list:

1. Engine Gasket set: Stage 1 MZR Motor Build Kit MS3/MS6 2006-2013
2. Rod Bearings x4: Mahle Clevite Rod Bearings H-Series Performance SINGLE Mazdaspeed 3 Mazdaspeed 6
3. Main Bearings: Mahle Clevite Main Bearing Set AL Series Standard Size Mazdaspeed 3 Mazdaspeed 6
4. Main Studs (how many do I need? It looks like 10?): Mazda OEM Main Bolt Mazdaspeed 3 2007-2013 | Mazdaspeed 6 2006-2007 - EdgeAutosport.com
5. Head Studs (how many do I need? Again, it looks like 10?): Mazda OEM Head Bolt Mazdaspeed 3 Mazdaspeed 6
6. Timing: The timing cover has been off my car before (prior to my purchase), but I cannot confirm that it has the revised kit. Should I replace the timing system? I'm honestly unsure of its life expectancy. If I do replace the timing system, I would get this kit along with the tool kit: Mazda OEM VVT Replacement Kit Mazdaspeed 3 / Mazdaspeed 6
7. Pistons: http://www.speedperf6rmanc3.com/prod...-mzr-disi.html
8. Rods: http://edgeautosport.com/manley-h-be...d-6-2006-2007/
9. Injector Seals: https://corksport.com/mazdaspeed-3-f...tor-seals.html
10. Turbo: I hate yall for convincing me: http://www.speedperf6rmanc3.com/prod...-mzr-disi.html
11. I've been told it would be best to send the head off for machining. I don't know anything about this other than the fact the valves will desperately need cleaning.
12. Motor Mounts: I do not want excessive NVH. Again, this is a comfortable DD. My RMM according to the seller will have 60-70k miles on it, so I won't replace it for awhile.
PMM: If there's not much NVH: http://edgeautosport.com/damond-moto...d-3-2007-2013/
TMM: If there's not much NVH: http://edgeautosport.com/damond-moto...d-3-2007-2013/

Now less important things

13. LCA's: My bushings are shot. Whiteline Bushings: Whiteline Control Arm Bushings Lower Inner Front Mazdaspeed 3 MS3
14. Front sway bar bushings: Again, I believe these are shot. I would go with: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001GBN0YA...iglink21759-20

Price:
1: $537.28
2: $57.56
3. $80.79
4. $56.60 (for 10)
5. $62.50 (for 10)
6. $473.97 (for full kit + tools)
7. $609.98
8. $360.45
9. $179.84
10. $1099.00
11. ?
12. $220.00 + $255.00
13. $35.82 (for bushings)
14. $10.46
Total: $4,039.29

Thank you for your time.

[stockms3]

If you are going that far might as well:
1. Take motor out
2. drop subframes/suspension
3. Strip undercarriage
4. Fix rust
5. Spray Epoxy primer
6. Replace ALL BUSHINGS.
7. Let it rip.


Your car will start having visible rust in two years max. I have 05 Mazda 3 and it is a rust bucket all around.

I plan on doing the same project but finding a clean shell (it could be a regular 3), stripping everything, replacing all bushings, and putting motor in with big turbo.

[Bingo]

Ya, it's definitely worth doing a coating on it. The car has minimal undercarriage rust and no body rust yet (Oklahoma car). Bushing wise, the shocks and struts are a year old along with their bearings and bushings so I should be good there.

[KiwiFlavor]

Why keeping the stock bore? With that mileage, there's a possibility that the cylinder heads have tapered and you're going to need to re-bore your block.

With the cost of OEM piston rings + pistons, you could almost spend a little bit more and get Manleys or SP63 4032 pistons (Although i think 4032 is better for longevity)

For your goals, you're better off using OEM bearings. These are what I'm using for my build.

Yes 10 each for main and head bolts.


Do you have friends that work at a Mazda dealership? A local hooked/hooking me up with all OEM parts (equivalent to Stage 3 motor build kit from Edge) for $300 cheaper than Edge.

[mituc]

Try to source King XP bearings for both rod and main.
Change the rods and pistons while you're at it. Yes, that's going to be $1k more but worth the diff. Look into getting the 4032 alloy pistons.

For motor mounts, if you want a comfortable DD then then the gen2 tripode and transmission mount and add the corksport TMM insert. Leave the PMM stock and upgrade the RMM with whatever you feel worth it.

If the car never overheated then you may get away without machining it. Just put a new head gasket and you're good.

Don't cheap out on turbo either. Add an S3.

Get OEM LCAs, do not add stiffer sway bars.

Get OEM main bolts and keep the balance shaft. Throw the factory head bolts for stronger aftermarket head studs (CA 625+).

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by KiwiFlavor Why keeping the stock bore? With that mileage, there's a possibility that the cylinder heads have tapered and you're going to need to re-bore your block. With the cost of OEM piston rings + pistons, you could almost spend a little bit more and get Manleys or SP63 4032 pistons (Although i think 4032 is better for longevity) For your goals, you're better off using OEM bearings. These are what I'm using for my build. Yes 10 each for main and head bolts. Do you have friends that work at a Mazda dealership? A local hooked/hooking me up with all OEM parts (equivalent to Stage 3 motor build kit from Edge) for $300 cheaper than Edge.

I don't know anyone that works for Mazda unfortunately, which is why I've been looking elsewhere for parts. The only reason I looked at those bearings is since that's all Edge seems to have, but maybe look into OEM from Mazda?

Originally Posted by mituc Try to source King XP bearings for both rod and main. Change the rods and pistons while you're at it. Yes, that's going to be $1k more but worth the diff. Look into getting the 4032 alloy pistons. For motor mounts, if you want a comfortable DD then then the gen2 tripode and transmission mount and add the corksport TMM insert. Leave the PMM stock and upgrade the RMM with whatever you feel worth it. If the car never overheated then you may get away without machining it. Just put a new head gasket and you're good. Don't cheap out on turbo either. Add an S3. Get OEM LCAs, do not add stiffer sway bars. Get OEM main bolts and keep the balance shaft. Throw the factory head bolts for stronger aftermarket head studs (CA 625+).

Why do you think it's worth the difference? The way I understand it, the OEM rods/pistons can handle very high mileage given the power doesn't exceed around 380 wtq, and so I don't see why it would be worth upgrading them? Also are you just talking about OEM gen2 mounts (I'm not familiar with "tripode"). And I've looked at the S3, and I could likely be convinced to go for it. My main concern is lag. The S3 spools at 3500ish(?) while the S1 would be closer to 2800.

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Bingo Why do you think it's worth the difference? The way I understand it, the OEM rods/pistons can handle very high mileage given the power doesn't exceed around 380 wtq, and so I don't see why it would be worth upgrading them? Also are you just talking about OEM gen2 mounts (I'm not familiar with "tripode"). And I've looked at the S3, and I could likely be convinced to go for it. My main concern is lag. The S3 spools at 3500ish(?) while the S1 would be closer to 2800.

The factory pistons are still prone to cracking over time as they don't like heat at all. Cruising on the highway at 2500rpm in 6th and running timing advance at the edge of detonation (just normal closed-loop approach of any tune on any modern car) may get to them eventually. If you're building your car just to run 60k more miles then ok. But if you want to keep it for longer and eventually also throw some power at it then it doesn't make much sense to open the engine and leave the rods and pistons stock.

For the turbo... the S3 should spool a bit sooner, maybe 3200-ish. The lag isn't that bad, after all it's a 2.3 litre engine, not an 1.4 mule, so at 2800rpm in 5th believe me you will be in boost quite soon.
Also, usually when people want fast response and acceleration they're usually above 3000rpm. My GTX3071 should be even laggier (like an S4) but if I jump on the gas pedal at 2500rpm then at 3000 I'm already spinning the tires.

However, I understand that you want to build just a decent commuting car and an S1 makes a lot of sense. But just because of that, since cruising will be the same with an S1, S3, S4 or a GTX3582, having a tad more available when certain situations require it (like BMWs or mustangs fucking around) then why not have it for a barely significant difference of money... So this is my logic and it may not apply to you, but thing a bit more about it maybe it actually makes sense for you as well.

[Bingo]

Ya, I'll see when the time comes, I'm very much on the fence about the turbo. In terms of pistons, Edge has wiseco's for $550 including rings while it looks like the SP63's are $600 without rings?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Bingo Ya, I'll see when the time comes, I'm very much on the fence about the turbo. In terms of pistons, Edge has wiseco's for $550 including rings while it looks like the SP63's are $600 without rings?

All aftermarket pistons come with rings, including SP63's. However, at SP63 you can get 4032 alloy pistons which are more street use friendly.
SP63 4032 Series Pistons For Mazda MZR-DISI - SPEED PERF6RMANC3

[Bingo]

Ah. I looked at that link, and it doesn't explicitly say it comes with rings (while with Wiseco's it does). Good to know it comes with them though, that makes the SP63's damn near the same price as OEM...

[stockms3]

If you need to order OEM parts tasca Mazda is not bad and zoomzoomnation.com(local dealership to me). They should have prices close to Mazda racing pricing.

[Bingo]

Alright, the list is updates with my current thoughts. I'll upgrade the rods and pistons (Manley H-Beams and SP63's) and then I may as well spend a bit more for an S3. Now then.

1. OEM LCA's are incredibly expensive, so I'll try to get away with just replacing the bushings.
2. TMM and PMM: The OEM PMM is $255, and I couldn't even find an OEM TMM (besides through Mazda). Also, If I do go with an S3 (it would be accompanied by my current mods plus a long-catted DP and 3-port), are OEM mounts still a good idea?
3. Main and rod bearings @mituc; why the King XP bearings? I don't know anything about these (or any other ones) but they're twice the price of the Mahle's. Also does this change at all if I do end up making closer to 330 whp?

[mituc]

Originally Posted by Bingo 1. OEM LCA's are incredibly expensive, so I'll try to get away with just replacing the bushings.

Get the OEMs or at least the equivalent Moog. Replacing the bushing is just a quick fix but not necessarily a reliable one. However, this could make sense if you're doing a track build and you're not particularly interested for those LCAs to hold 60+k miles.

Originally Posted by Bingo 2. TMM and PMM: The OEM PMM is $255, and I couldn't even find an OEM TMM (besides through Mazda). Also, If I do go with an S3 (it would be accompanied by my current mods plus a long-catted DP and 3-port), are OEM mounts still a good idea?

If you want to DD the car then keep the OEM PMM. You can go aftermarket with the other two. For a quiet cabin a gen2 TMM + the tripode on the transmission it bolts on to + the CS TMM insert is simply perfect.

Originally Posted by Bingo 3. Main and rod bearings @mituc; why the King XP bearings? I don't know anything about these (or any other ones) but they're twice the price of the Mahle's. Also does this change at all if I do end up making closer to 330 whp?

The idea is the same: are you building the engine to go 60k more miles or indefinitely? You may also change your mind regarding the power limits and you may want to go higher at some point. The King bearings are indeed twice the price of Mahle bearings and like 30% more than the Clevite, but in absolute figures this is probably like $180-190 for both sets (main + rod), so probably like $50-60 more than the others.

You're rebuilding an engine and throwing at least $5k at it in parts and labour, $50 is like 1%, so don't cheap out at relatively inexpensive but critical parts. It's one thing to get some $1200 conn rods versus $350 ones which will still hold 600-650whp no problem, and another thing to spend $50 more on main and rod bearings.