Possibly a bent connecting rod now...

[Brannon]

Over the past 3 months I've been working on getting a very neglected speed 6 up and running. Replaced broken rear diff. mounts, rear axles, brakes all around that were shot, RSB, hpfp internals and finally yesterday I got the final piece of the messed up puzzle. The fuel rail pressure sensor.

Finally FINALLY after all the blood sweat and tears she was running with no check engine light on, no limp mode no issues. It was running like utter crap on whatever "tune" that the previous owner had (and it still has 1/4) tank of 89 octane and stale gas mix, not by choice) so I re flashed it with an AP to a 91 stage 2 tune to match the mods I had done (directly from Cobb's website) and it ran the smoothest it ever has.

I decided to wait for my old man before test driving, in fact I had him do it because he has a lot more experience with manual transmissions. We turned out of the driveway got maybe 1/4 mile down the road and he gave it some gas, it accelerated beautifully I wasn't watching the boost level though and it slipped my mind to tell him to stay out of it below 3000 until we hit that 3000 mark and we heard a loud popping along with a violent jolt he wrote it off as backfire due to bad gas and went into 3rd and it did it again, we pulled off at a gas station at the end of the road and he said the clutch pedal was vibrating, along with a nice clacking sound. I'm not really sure what happened but from what I've been reading it sounds like I have a bent rod I'll post the video link once YouTube clears the upload.

[08mzr]

That really sucks to hear. Are you planning to rebuild?

[Code Monkey]

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by 08mzr That really sucks to hear. Are you planning to rebuild?

Still weighing the options and trying to put all frustration with it aside before I make a decision, besides I'm flat broke for a while, so no telling if and when I'll take the plunge. I'm not even sure what caused it I'd hate to rebuild and have it happen again.

Originally Posted by Code Monkey

I appreciate it homie..

[08mzr]

Originally Posted by Brannon Still weighing the options and trying to put all frustration with it aside before I make a decision, besides I'm flat broke for a while, so no telling if and when I'll take the plunge. I'm not even sure what caused it I'd hate to rebuild and have it happen again.

It's possible that previous abuse started the problem, which is why it was parked. If you do rebuild, you could always go stronger.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by 08mzr It's possible that previous abuse started the problem, which is why it was parked. If you do rebuild, you could always go stronger.

True although the engine sounded healthy before last night no odd sounds or vibration, I failed to mention once we got pulled over I saw it had the check engine light on, a few codes with description unavailable then one for over boost and one mass air pressure high input or something along those lines my dumbass self decided to clear the codes although this was before I knew about the vibrating clutch and clattering, and of course I didn't log anything. It must be amateur hour

[broda]

Mass Air Flow Circuit High Input or MAP Pressure Circuit High Input?

Since you never stated, you said that it had old 89 octane in it, but did you ever drain that out or top off the tank? Did you have compression numbers? Not trying to be a pain, just seeing where things could have went south.

[Cheapspeed]

Wait...it still had old 89 octane in it when your dad was going into boost?

[Hoyoman]

Bad old gas AND 89 Octane and you flashed a 91 map and got on it sounds like you're at fault

[802MS3]

This engine cannot handle anything less than 91, especially if you overboost, especially especially if you overboost at low rpm. Sorry dude. Hopefully you can find a stock motor for a good price. EdgeAutosport sells re-man'd short blocks.

Whatever you do, DO NOT TURN ON THE CAR AGAIN. It WILL shoot a broken rod out of the block. Do not make this more expensive for yourself.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by broda Mass Air Flow Circuit High Input or MAP Pressure High Circuit Input? Since you never stated, you said that it had old 89 octane in it, but did you ever drain that out or top off the tank? Did you have compression numbers? Not trying to be a pain, just seeing where things could have went south.

Map pressure high circuit input I'm pretty sure. And yeah that bad gas was mixed with a couple gallons of fresh 89 that my old man put in there without my knowledge I told him that we needed to drain the tank and put at least 91 in it but you know how old shade tree car guys are "I've had v8 motors with more compression than this that ran fine on 89 before we worry about that stuff let's make sure it runs." Well it did..

[broda]

Well then there's the answer for the engine blowing up. Bad gas alone will cause knock, 89 octane will cause it to knock, combine those two under boost and ZZB.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed Wait...it still had old 89 octane in it when your dad was going into boost?

Yep. If you knew my old man you'd know why it still had the old gas in it, he swore it'd be fine and you honestly can't win arguments with him about cars he "knows all" even about these cars that he's never even seen before.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Brannon Yep. If you knew my old man you'd know why it still had the old gas in it, he swore it'd be fine and you honestly can't win arguments with him about cars he "knows all" even about these cars that he's never even seen before.

Tell your old man he doesn't know shit about these cars. Turbo direct injection cars are a whole other beast, especially the MZR DISI's. They were some of the first of their kind and ran into problems that newer engines have resolved like low speed pre ignition (LSPI).

Should've picked up tank of new 93 octane (or the highest octane you had available) to dilute the old stuff and took it easy for a while. Woulda cost a little time and a few dollars for gas you were gonna put in there anyway.

Do yourself a favor, ignore your dad and just read this forum if you intend on keeping the car.

[zjnspeed3]

Originally Posted by Brannon Yep. If you knew my old man you'd know why it still had the old gas in it, he swore it'd be fine and you honestly can't win arguments with him about cars he "knows all" even about these cars that he's never even seen before.

This sounds identical to my dad when I first got my speed. It was hydrolocked and we rebuilt it together. We reused the stock parts cus it was on his budget and 5000 miles later, I overboost and bent rod 1 and 4. Now I am forged and it is running better than ever because the build was done on MY budget and done by me. You really can't win any battles with dad's like that. I wanted to get rid of the car because we were disagreeing so much. Hopefully you can work things out and get it back up and running!

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by Cheapspeed Tell your old man he doesn't know shit about these cars. Turbo direct injection cars are a whole other beast, especially the MZR DISI's. They were some of the first of their kind and ran into problems that newer engines have resolved like low speed pre ignition (LSPI). Should've picked up tank of new 93 octane (or the highest octane you had available) to dilute the old stuff and took it easy for a while. Woulda cost a little time and a few dollars for gas you were gonna put in there anyway. Do yourself a favor, ignore your dad and just read this forum if you intend on keeping the car.

Yeah it was my intention to get it to the end of the road and pump some gas in it, because all the gas cans at the house were full of 89, I was thinking about putting some octane booster in it too to try to equal it out for the bad gas but it bent a rod less than half way there. When we got back home he was trying to figure out what happened and why and I said "it could have been that 1/4 tank of bad gas" and he said "no its probably this bullshit you put on it" pointing to the corksport sri I put on to replace a broken Mazdaspeed CAI . It's a struggle trying to tell someone stuck in the old v8 way of cars how these things work.

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 This sounds identical to my dad when I first got my speed. It was hydrolocked and we rebuilt it together. We reused the stock parts cus it was on his budget and 5000 miles later, I overboost and bent rod 1 and 4. Now I am forged and it is running better than ever because the build was done on MY budget and done by me. You really can't win any battles with dad's like that. I wanted to get rid of the car because we were disagreeing so much. Hopefully you can work things out and get it back up and running!

Yep I have to agree that sounds exactly like my dad the car came with a stock rear dif. Brace because the one on the car was broken, he wanted to put it on and I had to put a stop to it telling him those things are god awful and I'm not putting stock back on only to let it snap again. There isn't much winning with him even when I know I'm right but maybe after this he'll listen to me. I will add he does feel awful about it happening and hates that he hurt the car.

[zjnspeed3]

Originally Posted by Brannon Yeah it was my intention to get it to the end of the road and pump some gas in it, because all the gas cans at the house were full of 89, I was thinking about putting some octane booster in it too to try to equal it out for the bad gas but it bent a rod less than half way there. When we got back home he was trying to figure out what happened and why and I said "it could have been that 1/4 tank of bad gas" and he said "no its probably this bullshit you put on it" pointing to the corksport sri I put on to replace a broken Mazdaspeed CAI . It's a struggle trying to tell someone stuck in the old v8 way of cars how these things work.

I've heard that one before.. Really makes you just not want to stop working on cars. I really feel you in this one man. My dad was more worried about me getting my boost problem figured out than how the motor was running. The boost problem was my fault cus I had 2 connectors switched for the ebcs and I even showed him the EXACT connector in a picture and he still didn't believe it. He thought it was something with the JNR turbo inlet pipe I installed. So now I just tell him to stop if he tells me anything cus he knows he doesn't know anything and he even told me that plenty of times after he was trying to "apologize" for being a dick to me.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 I've heard that one before.. Really makes you just not want to stop working on cars. I really feel you in this one man. My dad was more worried about me getting my boost problem figured out than how the motor was running. The boost problem was my fault cus I had 2 connectors switched for the ebcs and I even showed him the EXACT connector in a picture and he still didn't believe it. He thought it was something with the JNR turbo inlet pipe I installed. So now I just tell him to stop if he tells me anything cus he knows he doesn't know anything and he even told me that plenty of times after he was trying to "apologize" for being a dick to me.

Gotta love dear old dad he told me yesterday "Those guys on the forums are ate up, saying not to go into boost under 3000 rpm how are you supposed to control that you should drive it normally it's a family sedan" well now we see where that got us. He messaged me a few minutes ago saying that it was boost cut he's been reading about these cars and it's a common problem that they get boost cut around 3000 rpm and bend rods and that's what mine did. I'm not going to disagree it popped very loudly and my head almost high fived the windshield any thoughts anyone?

[broda]

You shouldn't be seeing boost cuts at 3000rpms considering you shouldn't even be high in boost at that point. Unfortunately he's probably never going to take the responsibility of having the engine knock to high heavens from the gas and the early WOT.

[zjnspeed3]

My dad did some "reading" as well. His few minutes didn't match my hours and hours of research to find out everything about my car. I have the log I was taking when I overboosted and blew my motor and it was completely normal besides the boost spike. I would try to do your own research as well just to make sure you have all the info for what happened. A boost cut isn't the only thing that could have happened. It was probably more along the lines of fuel cut with that 89 you had in the tank. Fuel cut and boost cut can feel similar.

[broda]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 My dad did some "reading" as well. His few minutes didn't match my hours and hours of research to find out everything about my car. I have the log I was taking when I overboosted and blew my motor and it was completely normal besides the boost spike. I would try to do your own research as well just to make sure you have all the info for what happened. A boost cut isn't the only thing that could have happened. It was probably more along the lines of fuel cut with that 89 you had in the tank. Fuel cut and boost cut can feel similar.

That's exactly how mine was. I would spend hours diagnosing my car and he would never believe me and try to convince me that he actually knew what was wrong. He even battled me about using Rotella T6 oil in my car. Eventually after I was right over him a few times he stopped being that way and now just stops by and asks if I need help if I'm there to use the garage.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by broda You shouldn't be seeing boost cuts at 3000rpms considering you shouldn't even be high in boost at that point. Unfortunately he's probably never going to take the responsibility of having the engine knock to high heavens from the gas and the early WOT.

Yeah he's trying to tell me now that the engine never knocked it just experienced boost cut

[zjnspeed3]

The engine will knock whenever there is boost or fuel cut. And if you bend the rod, it will audibly knock and show a reading of 5.95 on the Knock Retard if you have an Accessport.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 My dad did some "reading" as well. His few minutes didn't match my hours and hours of research to find out everything about my car. I have the log I was taking when I overboosted and blew my motor and it was completely normal besides the boost spike. I would try to do your own research as well just to make sure you have all the info for what happened. A boost cut isn't the only thing that could have happened. It was probably more along the lines of fuel cut with that 89 you had in the tank. Fuel cut and boost cut can feel similar.

Yeah he is thoroughly convinced that the 89 octane bad gas mixture had nothing to do with it and that it never spark knocked as he calls it because "that would have sounded like a diesel engine" that doesn't mean we didn't have a bad detonation/knock during that jolt and to me that's the only feasible explanation of what happened

[zjnspeed3]

The car was ticking when you pulled over right? Like a REALLY loud and fast ticking/banging? Not a quiet one cus that would be the injectors and HPFP. I'm talking loud.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 The car was ticking when you pulled over right? Like a REALLY loud and fast ticking/banging? Not a quiet one cus that would be the injectors and HPFP. I'm talking loud.

Yeah it was decently loud, would go faster with engine speed (though a cam drive pump would do the same) and you could feel a vibration through the clutch pedal up until it was depressed halfway then it would come back with the clutch pedal to the floor. If YouTube would clear my upload I'd post the video I took.

[zjnspeed3]

You can't hear the HPFP while inside the car so you most likely have some squiggly rods in your motor. And the clutch would probably be vibrating too. So the best thing to do is to drain all the oil and remove oil pan and just use a flash light to check the rods. They will look like this if they are only slightly bent. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1447613040.754893.jpg

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 You can't hear the HPFP while inside the car so you most likely have some squiggly rods in your motor. And the clutch would probably be vibrating too. So the best thing to do is to drain all the oil and remove oil pan and just use a flash light to check the rods. They will look like this if they are only slightly bent. Attachment 216452

Yeah it's definitely audible in the car, I was planning on dropping the pan tomorrow when I'm back home.

[zjnspeed3]

Let us know what you find.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 Let us know what you find.

I will, assuming the old man doesn't try ram rodding anything, and I actually get to it.

[Cheapspeed]

Originally Posted by Brannon Gotta love dear old dad he told me yesterday "Those guys on the forums are ate up, saying not to go into boost under 3000 rpm how are you supposed to control that you should drive it normally it's a family sedan" well now we see where that got us. He messaged me a few minutes ago saying that it was boost cut he's been reading about these cars and it's a common problem that they get boost cut around 3000 rpm and bend rods and that's what mine did. I'm not going to disagree it popped very loudly and my head almost high fived the windshield any thoughts anyone?

What did I say about listening to your dad?

Rods bend because somebody is doing something stupid, like going into boost at low RPM on 4 year old low octane gas with an aggressive (improper) tune.

My car as 146k miles on the original motor on a gtx3076r turbo for the past 20k miles. Proper maintenance, reading this forum, and a good tuner have helped me get this far.

[Big Dog]

Fuck your dad! Old school V8 mentality.

MSF and NATOR for the fucking win!!!

[Djohns]

Man my pops is the same way. He built a 1969 GTO and other cars but old school v8. When I talk about some of the turbo stuff and how things work on our engine it blows his mind.

[sheston]

Not to add confusion, but if you have the log of when this happened, you should post it. I bent a rod, and never heard it. The clutch vibes were only in a very specific position, not all the way in, or out. Clutch felt like ABS petal when barely pressed.

Can't go wrong with draining the oil and checking compression. Could be something other than Zoom Zoom Boom

[802MS3]

If it felt like your face was going to hit the dash from the car cutting, its most definitely boost cut from overboosting, meaning the boost control was hooked up wrong and the car had no way to control the boost. Unfortunately the boost cut in the ECU is extremely slow. It won't cut boost until a solid 3-5 seconds after you pass the target, and at the point on a stock turbo is like 30psi.

[sheston]

And your AP will only read 22ish

Ask me how I know :-)

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by zjnspeed3 Let us know what you find.

I didn't get to it tonight like I thought I would, apparently my pops's friend who builds race motors and junk is going to be coming over at some point this week with his bore scope and have his professional opinion on the whole ordeal.

[robbspeed]

Originally Posted by Brannon I didn't get to it tonight like I thought I would, apparently my pops's friend who builds race motors and junk is going to be coming over at some point this week with his bore scope and have his professional opinion on the whole ordeal.

Why won't you just remove the oil pan and stop letting other people touch your stuff?

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by sheston Not to add confusion, but if you have the log of when this happened, you should post it. I bent a rod, and never heard it. The clutch vibes were only in a very specific position, not all the way in, or out. Clutch felt like ABS petal when barely pressed. Can't go wrong with draining the oil and checking compression. Could be something other than Zoom Zoom Boom

Yeah sadly I wasn't logging due to my excitement to finally have the car out of limp mode (bad fuel rail pressure sensor along with everything else) rookie mistake. But I have the clutch vibe bad when barely pressed then it goes away along with the clattering in the engine around half depressed.

[Brannon]

Originally Posted by 802MS3 If it felt like your face was going to hit the dash from the car cutting, its most definitely boost cut from overboosting, meaning the boost control was hooked up wrong and the car had no way to control the boost. Unfortunately the boost cut in the ECU is extremely slow. It won't cut boost until a solid 3-5 seconds after you pass the target, and at the point on a stock turbo is like 30psi.

As far as I know the EBC hasn't been messed with other than putting on a cs tip but the hose is still connected how it should be I checked that night thinking that might have caused the overboost.