Pump upgrades, near done...

[ptperformance]

As you know we have been working on the pump upgrades for about 4 months now. I have been keeping people updated as we move along, but I will make this a all in one info thread. Soo, here goes....

Stock pump parts are rated at a rockwell scale of 92 to 93 on the piston and something less on the sleeve (sorry not going to post this info for obvious reasons). The others we tested were coming back in the 60's and lower 70's on the scale with up to 18 points separating them from piston to sleeve. Our units will be of a similar material and hardness to the stock units.

The stock parts are coated with a "secret sause" coating. We have no idea what it is but... we will be ti-nitride coating ours (this is what they coat dril bits with). The "others" no coatings at all that I have seen.

The weight of the retaining hardware from the "others" is 3 to 8 grams more then the stock assembly (some come with a new spring others do not). Ours will be using titanium retainer and moly locks that come back 2 to 4 grams ligher then the stocker. This will give less load on the spring to keep it from bouncing off the cam lobe at high RPM's.

Price... now this is all over the place with the others, anywhere from $800 to $349. We have targeted our pump to be priced at $299 and so far it looks good to hit that target mark (waiting on the ti-nitride process quote).

So the long and short of it... proper hardness, quality coatings, lighter assembly and lower price will be what we offer.


Ahh, forgot to mention that there will be a lifetime warranty on the pump parts you get from PTP.

Guys I want to say thanks to all of those that have held out for these, I put 110% into these to make sure they are well worth the wait and money spent. We are at 15 days and counting before we should (fingers crossed) have the final test parts ready to go. I will also have the "flow" mods done to the fuel line and pump control valve as options when we have the pumps in hand.

[ATE BALLER]

Sounds great so far. Will there be flow-range testing through a typical rpm range, say, 500-8000 rpm? Now that flashes are coming that raise the red-line, I'd want to be confident the pump isn't going to fly apart at uber-high revs. It'd also be nice to know exactly how much fuel this thing gives us over stock. It's important to know how much fuel you can move when tuning.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by ATE BALLER Sounds great so far. Will there be flow-range testing through a typical rpm range, say, 500-8000 rpm? Now that flashes are coming that raise the red-line, I'd want to be confident the pump isn't going to fly apart at uber-high revs. It'd also be nice to know exactly how much fuel this thing gives us over stock. It's important to know how much fuel you can move when tuning.

Flow range will be 25% to 40% across the curve, I will try to get them posted up when we get actual flow numbers. This is pump is a copy of the stocker with just more output from it, stocker should hold together since they are in the R8 and rev to 8800 RPM in that car.

As far as upping the RPM for our cars... its going to be expensive because of the cyl head components. I will have info on that here soon.

[winniep]

Definitely look forward to these getting done! Can't WAIT to get one on my ride! Good bye 16psi.......hello big wheel and 18 psi! WOOT! Thanks for the update! Keep em coming!

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by winniep Definitely look forward to these getting done! Can't WAIT to get one on my ride! Good bye 16psi.......hello big wheel and 18 psi! WOOT! Thanks for the update! Keep em coming!

Will do and thank you.

[mrlilguy157]

John, I'd like to clarify some misinformation with your post for protection of myself and CP-E.

Originally Posted by ptperformance The stock parts are coated with a "secret sause" coating. We have no idea what it is but... we will be ti-nitride coating ours (this is what they coat dril bits with). The "others" no coatings at all that I have seen.

my fuel pumps go through a thorough hardening process and are ridiculously polished and heat-treated to provide extremely frictionless characteristics.

CP-E's fuel pumps have a 'DLC' coating which stands for 'diamond-like coating'. I don't like the acronym, but the parts are definitely coated and look almost like black chrome.

Originally Posted by ptperformance The weight of the retaining hardware from the "others" is 3 to 8 grams more then the stock assembly (some come with a new spring others do not). Ours will be using titanium retainer and moly locks that come back 2 to 4 grams ligher then the stocker. This will give less load on the spring to keep it from bouncing off the cam lobe at high RPM's.

The complete piston/bore/retainer assembly on the upgraded parts which I provide vs. stock is about 4 grams heavier, for the COMPLETE ASSEMBLY. The stock retainer vs. the titanium retainer and locks I use is actually less in weight, just like what youre going to offer.

As far as the CP-E pumps go, I don't know the right specs but I do know that they use the stock retainer, but the piston is 'significantly' heavier than stock, so there is a stiffer spring supplied with their kits.

Originally Posted by ptperformance Price... now this is all over the place with the others, anywhere from $800 to $349. We have targeted our pump to be priced at $299 and so far it looks good to hit that target mark (waiting on the ti-nitride process quote).

Current Price breakdown:

mrlilguyCDFP: $549 for the mail in upgrade or core exchange/$899 for a brand new fuel pump with upgraded parts.

CP-E: $622 (via StreetUnit) for the mail in upgrade or core exchange/$997 for a brand new fuel pump with upgraded parts.

PTP parts (from what has been said): $299 for a do it yourself kit.

Originally Posted by ptperformance I will also have the "flow" mods done to the fuel line and pump control valve as options when we have the pumps in hand.

I can't wait to see your final product, and I'm excited about the other flow/fuel mods you've got planned as well!

Thanks John for the updates! I've copied your post and my replies into my forum as well so others are clear on the differences between all 3 of us.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 John, I'd like to clarify some misinformation with your post for protection of myself and CP-E. my fuel pumps go through a thorough hardening process and are ridiculously polished and heat-treated to provide extremely frictionless characteristics. SAE 1090 Alloy Steel is basicly the hardest steel out there and it achieves a maximum hardness of ~70 on the Rockwell "C" scale. CP-E's fuel pumps have a 'DLC' coating which stands for 'diamond-like coating'. I don't like the acronym, but the parts are definitely coated and look almost like black chrome. DLC stands for "Diamond-like Carbon" and it is ~75 on the Rockwell "C" scale.

Ti-Nitride (Gold Color) is ~80 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Aluminum Ti-Nitride (Black Color) is ~90 on the Rockwell "C" scale.

[06Speed6]

I have a question, and it may sound stupid, but I am asking it anyway.

Does your pump require a in-tank pump upgrade? If it doesn't, does it flow enough to cause a significant loss of pressure or cavitation on the low pressure side of the CDFP?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 I have a question, and it may sound stupid, but I am asking it anyway. Does your pump require a in-tank pump upgrade? If it doesn't, does it flow enough to cause a significant loss of pressure or cavitation on the low pressure side of the CDFP?

In tank pump upgrade should not be needed. Would it help, yes... needed not yet.

[mrlilguy157]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Ti-Nitride (Gold Color) is ~80 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Aluminum Ti-Nitride (Black Color) is ~90 on the Rockwell "C" scale.

looks like the APR stuff is probably aluminum ti-nitride.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Ti-Nitride (Gold Color) is ~80 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Aluminum Ti-Nitride (Black Color) is ~90 on the Rockwell "C" scale.

Thank you. We are doing the aluminum ti-ni coatings. Thats the only way to reach the "near stock" hardness.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Ti-Nitride (Gold Color) is ~80 on the Rockwell "C" scale. Aluminum Ti-Nitride (Black Color) is ~90 on the Rockwell "C" scale.

I think we are scoring ours on the "N" scale but I could have the letter wrong. The stockers came back hard as diamonds but its the difference (hardness) between the piston and sleeve that makes one unit better then the next. We have this nailed down now.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 John, I'd like to clarify some misinformation with your post for protection of myself and CP-E. my fuel pumps go through a thorough hardening process and are ridiculously polished and heat-treated to provide extremely frictionless characteristics. CP-E's fuel pumps have a 'DLC' coating which stands for 'diamond-like coating'. I don't like the acronym, but the parts are definitely coated and look almost like black chrome. The complete piston/bore/retainer assembly on the upgraded parts which I provide vs. stock is about 4 grams heavier, for the COMPLETE ASSEMBLY. The stock retainer vs. the titanium retainer and locks I use is actually less in weight, just like what youre going to offer. As far as the CP-E pumps go, I don't know the right specs but I do know that they use the stock retainer, but the piston is 'significantly' heavier than stock, so there is a stiffer spring supplied with their kits. Current Price breakdown: mrlilguyCDFP: $549 for the mail in upgrade or core exchange/$899 for a brand new fuel pump with upgraded parts. CP-E: $622 (via StreetUnit) for the mail in upgrade or core exchange/$997 for a brand new fuel pump with upgraded parts. PTP parts (from what has been said): $299 for a do it yourself kit. I can't wait to see your final product, and I'm excited about the other flow/fuel mods you've got planned as well! Thanks John for the updates! I've copied your post and my replies into my forum as well so others are clear on the differences between all 3 of us.

I love it, missinformation???

My statement stands as I have stated "others", not pointing out yours or anyone else. I know that you use the APR or the Autotec pumps but you are afraid to state that (why I have no idea and I really don't care which one or why you do this).

Since you decided to come in here and state what I didn't want to know I will now post my replies.

Your pumps are not "coated" (you said so yourself). Polished is not coated, its polished.

So yours are heavier, thanks. Have you ever measured the total weight for stock vs yours? If so, heavier is... well heavier. My point still stands on that as well, thanks.

As far as price goes, I stated $349 to $899 (I was wrong on the top end of the price scale, sorry). Doesn't look like I was missing much in the way of the "price range".

With all the stated, you have pointed out that yours are not coated, heavier and fit pretty much in the price range that I quoted. Who are you trying to protect again? The "others" that I had stated in my post?

Jon I know that you are doing and by making posts in other forums you are getting no where. I stated "others", not yours, ARPR's, Autotec, or CPE's. They are simply stated as "others". There was no missinformation posted in this thread, they are pretty much what we have seen and dealt with. Again, "others" do not mean your pumps and you have already proven my statements with your comments on the weight, coating and price. I really don't understand why you even posted in here other then to back up my claims of the "others" pumps. Have a nice day.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by mrlilguy157 John, I'd like to clarify some misinformation with your post for protection of myself and CP-E. my fuel pumps go through a thorough hardening process and are ridiculously polished and heat-treated to provide extremely frictionless characteristics. SAE 1090 Alloy Steel is basicly the hardest steel out there and it achieves a maximum hardness of ~70 on the Rockwell "C" scale. CP-E's fuel pumps have a 'DLC' coating which stands for 'diamond-like coating'. I don't like the acronym, but the parts are definitely coated and look almost like black chrome. DLC stands for "Diamond-like Carbon" and it is ~75 on the Rockwell "C" scale.

Jon, this member pointed out that if you don't coat that my scoring is correct for "your" parts. Again thank you for making my "claims of the others" spot on by stating yours are not coated so that being said the hardest that they could be is in the 70's like I stated. Thank you very much for helping me out with this, it makes me feel good that the correct info is getting out on the parts that we have tested from the "others".

[dadasracecar]

KMD Tuning - KMD FSI Fuel Pump Kit

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar KMD Tuning - KMD FSI Fuel Pump Kit

Good price on that pump. Its the Autotec pump that most use as there own. Scores a very low 70 and high 60 on the rockwell scale and it the pump that has had more failures then any other on the market.

I am not sure if Autotec makes this pump or not but it seems to be "popular" unit. Our pump is very similar in design to the stocker and this unit. We used a similar retaining hardware but the pump design needed change's to cut down on the failures. CPE's pump was a very good design but to much to market and build (hence there high price).

When its all done and said our pump will be very similar to the stocker in design.... just it will move more volume/pressure with a lighter moving assembly (no new spring will be needed).

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar KMD Tuning - KMD FSI Fuel Pump Kit

o m g
lmao
Doesnt say anything about a backorder

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Laloosh o m g lmao Doesnt say anything about a backorder

I tried ordering one and did get a backorder issue either. I may order one just to tear it apart and see what the deal is.

[oskinosmee]

Sounds good
I cant wait for one

[cld12pk2go]

sub

[numbnuts22715]

so for these we will be swapping out the parts on our stocker? or what

[Haltech]

Unless you have the ability to disassemble and reassemble in a clean room, i dont recommend trying to upgrade your own pump with new internals. Shit can go wrong, in a hurry.

[numbnuts22715]

Originally Posted by Haltech Unless you have the ability to disassemble and reassemble in a clean room, i dont recommend trying to upgrade your own pump with new internals. Shit can go wrong, in a hurry.

Oh I know. I just thought I remembered at one point he said there would be no cores to swap out and all of that stuff, then mrlilguy said that wed have to perform the swap ourselves.. Just trying to figure this all out.

[06Speed6]

Actually, I would have to say that is unlikely. The ~70 Rockwell parts scratch up and fail because of the heat and friction generated by the scratches, AlTiN has a operating max temp of 1400+F and is scratchable by only the hardest elements.

I was reading up on AlTiN and apparently it is very popular with high end competitive shooters, they use it to coat the inside of their gun barrels because of its low friction coefficient, high heat tolerance, corrosion resistance, and wear resistance.

[JumpingJackson]

Yeah i think the clean room stuff is FUD to cover for high mark up on pre-assembled cam driven pumps / failures known to happen on some of the autotech/apr pumps

[Haltech]

Well, just be sure not to have a single piece of lint, hair or dust get into that assembly when you are doing the swap guys.

[JumpingJackson]

Well that shouldnt be too hard considering a college student can do it.

[Haltech]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Well that shouldnt be too hard considering a college student can do it.

[Laloosh]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Well that shouldnt be too hard considering a college student can do it.