randy vs phil

[phailerider]

to eliminate confusion, this thread was taken from another thread to clean it up. let the debate begin HERE

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson I have no doubt Christian could do that, although i dont think it would be a very wise thing to do with the ECU controlling boost. Imagine your boost source line going to your boost control solenoid popping off.. overboost and your engine throws a rod. Definately not for everyone.

youd still overboost bro. ive done that like 5 times now. ive blown the bov right off the ic. if a hose comes off it doesnt have anything to do with fuel cut programmed into the ecu.

when i spoke with christian he said he hadnt found any "fuel cut" in the ecu. he said there was just boost cut. is that still what your hearing?

PLUS... who wouldnt want this. everybodys been bitching and moaning about how restrictive our ecus/ platform is. why wouldnt you want the same parameters that the hondas, srts, rsxs, dsms, subbies, etc, etc have? i dont get it? why would you "want" the restriction? unless of course you were shooting for a "safe" tune, 20-30 whp.... and were dealing with a tuning solution that struggled to get it right?

[bova]

so because cpe just now removed it, and cobb has done it for a month now, but because cpe did it all out and cobb did it with a safety net cobb didn't do it right?

who gives a crap. who says what is fuel cut and what is boost cut. how do you know its fuel cut when its under 40 degrees out and not boost cut? why would it be fuel cut if you had an upgraded fuel pump? i'm glad cpe figured it out but at the same time i've been running a map that doesn't cut at all for the past month even when its 5 degrees out and i'm hitting 20psi on the stock turbo with boost temps down in the 30s. if anythign i don't think its the boost, i think its the boost air temps.

[dadasracecar]

Originally Posted by bova80 so because cpe just now removed it, and cobb has done it for a month now, but because cpe did it all out and cobb did it with a safety net cobb didn't do it right? who gives a crap. who says what is fuel cut and what is boost cut. how do you know its fuel cut when its under 40 degrees out and not boost cut? why would it be fuel cut if you had an upgraded fuel pump? i'm glad cpe figured it out but at the same time i've been running a map that doesn't cut at all for the past month even when its 5 degrees out and i'm hitting 20psi on the stock turbo with boost temps down in the 30s. if anythign i don't think its the boost, i think its the boost air temps.

Cobb just copied the winter fuel cut fix that cp-e and I figured out over a year ago, last winter. They just scaled the IAT. They didn't eliminate other types of cut or figure out all of the causes. You don't care b/c your car is running w/o cutting. As you continue to mod, I suspect it will happen to you again. That's the frustrating part of the cut. It occurs differently with different mod combos in different cars. Whoosh only had it at the very end of his experience. I had fuel cut stock. It's seemingly random b/c there are multiple conditions that set it and they're not all intuitive or predictable.

Yes, people will worry about the safety net being removed. They'll worry until they're in 4th at 5500 WOT and they get a cut in a turbo sports car when it's 40 deg outside. Cold weather is when turbo cars are supposed to be strongest not when you have to nanny your car around or it'll cut. My 335i flat rips now that it's cold. My fully bolted stock turbo MS6 would cut in 3rd-6th under 50 deg F. Fuel pressure was dead on. I did the IAT mod and that fixed it until it was sub 20. I was pissed as I should have been that I couldn't drive my turbo car in the cold.

Robbie's built MS3 running yesterday when it was in the 40s was cutting like hell in the higher gears. He's built and big turbo with upgraded everything. AFRs were fine, fuel pressure was tits and he was cutting like mad. One flash later, he can boost whatever he wants and zero cut.

[bova]

how do you know this is what cobb did? you don't. cp-e winter fuel cut fix was a resistor on the maf. if i monitor my iat's they arent any different then they were before the fix. according to you if they were scaled then they should read higher but they aren't. i had iat temps of 15 degrees the day it was 5 out and the car ran great. and he hasn't just resolved the issue for mine. he has done it for others that are fully bolted too, minus a big turbo, just ask superskater or deadman as well as many others.

[superskaterxes]

hmm funny how the cpe guys come into the cobb threads and shit on their progress and then when bova and i come to the cpe store randy gets his panties all bunched up and throws a hissy fit. gotta pay to play and if u cant take it dont dish it out.

jordan knows i support cpe in all their progress but i dont support the people who talk shit and dont have any facts to back it up. and just to let u know, i kno for a fact that the STI has fuel cut. ive been in one when it happened. right after a DP install with ecu reset and at redline in 6th gear at ~150

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes hmm funny how the cpe guys come into the cobb threads and shit on their progress and then when bova and i come to the cpe store randy gets his panties all bunched up and throws a hissy fit. gotta pay to play and if u cant take it dont dish it out. jordan knows i support cpe in all their progress but i dont support the people who talk shit and dont have any facts to back it up. and just to let u know, i kno for a fact that the STI has fuel cut. ive been in one when it happened. right after a DP install with ecu reset and at redline in 6th gear at ~150

yeah...kinda a silly. cpe makes a groundbreaking fix and all the ap guys want to do is say its crap in a cpe section, and then that pisses us off.... so we come over here and say yours is crap too. right in the cobb subforum!!! silly all of us.

how about you guys stay here and work on your ltfts and well stay over there and make 500whp. deal? that way no more controversy, and we both stay busy!!!

[MZRDISI4]

Originally Posted by palerider yeah...kinda a silly. cpe makes a groundbreaking fix and all the ap guys want to do is say its crap in a cpe section, and then that pisses us off.... so we come over here and say yours is crap too. right in the cobb subforum!!! silly all of us. how about you guys stay here and work on your ltfts and well stay over there and make 500whp. deal? that way no more controversy, and we both stay busy!!!

It would be ground breaking if CP-E came out with it first(finding the table for the cut), but they didn't. If you can change the fuel cut you can surely disable it.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 It would be ground breaking if CP-E came out with it first(finding the table for the cut), but they didn't. If you can change the fuel cut you can surely disable it.

cool... then all the ap guys can ask for it too!!! call and see if you can have it tomorrow. it would be nice for the whole community to share in this breakthrough.

i guess i just wonder why they left it in there in the first place. if they thought it should stay, then the idea to remove it IS indeed groundbreaking. dont you think? its certainly a completely different philosophy considering it had never been offered to all you before.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider youd still overboost bro. ive done that like 5 times now. ive blown the bov right off the ic. if a hose comes off it doesnt have anything to do with fuel cut programmed into the ecu. when i spoke with christian he said he hadnt found any "fuel cut" in the ecu. he said there was just boost cut. is that still what your hearing? PLUS... who wouldnt want this. everybodys been bitching and moaning about how restrictive our ecus/ platform is. why wouldnt you want the same parameters that the hondas, srts, rsxs, dsms, subbies, etc, etc have? i dont get it? why would you "want" the restriction? unless of course you were shooting for a "safe" tune, 20-30 whp.... and were dealing with a tuning solution that struggled to get it right?

If your wastegate solenoid/boost source tube coming off of the turbo pops off your wastegate will remain shut causing you to grossly overboost until you get a BOOST CUT. <--- Yep that boost cut just saved your engine.

My point, if the Standback is controlling boost and it detects overboost it will induce a fuel/boost cut from what i remember(I recall someone running a large turbo maxing out the MAP sensor and CP-E had to mod their standback not to induce a fuel cut with the large amounts of boost it was seeing or something along those lines).

Where as if a Stock ECU /cobb flashed ecu overboosts due to the situation i described above with the fuel/boost cut completely disabled there is nothing stopping your engine from grenading.

You seem to think that completely removing the fuel/boost cut is for everyone in every application when it clearly is not. Prove me wrong.

[Deadman]

My post got deleted in the other thread.... but ummm palerider as i said before your a salesman thats all you are.. Your as biased as they come, for a reason i might add.. I'm all for CP-E making the move on this problem, i just don't care to much for you when you start pointing fingers when you specifically bashed the competition FIRST.

Pale can you now cut me a deal on something.... gah nevermind..

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by Deadman My post got deleted in the other thread.... but ummm palerider as i said before your a salesman thats all you are.. Your as biased as they come, for a reason i might add.. I'm all for CP-E making the move on this problem, i just don't care to much for you when you start pointing fingers when you specifically bashed the competition FIRST. Pale can you now cut me a deal on something.... gah nevermind..

Probably because we made him look like an idiotic troll in his own section.

[MZRDISI4]

Originally Posted by palerider cool... then all the ap guys can ask for it too!!! call and see if you can have it tomorrow. it would be nice for the whole community to share in this breakthrough. i guess i just wonder why they left it in there in the first place. if they thought it should stay, then the idea to remove it IS indeed groundbreaking. dont you think? its certainly a completely different philosophy considering it had never been offered to all you before.

No I don't think so, finding the cause is groundbreaking, modifying or removing it (whatever works best for you) is the good end result of finding it.

[bova]

its ok, i've been cut free for over a month now with the AP. but apparently these guys think cobb copied Cp-e's cold weather fix even though my IAT's are spot on. but i guess they know more about the AP then cobb.

[MZRDISI4]

You're not listening. Fuel cut happens for different cars with different mod combos under different circumstances. There isn't any one table. THere are many parameters that play a role. You haven't been around long enough to remember the endless parade of fuel cut threads on m6c and m247 with log after log trying to figure out the cause. We were the first to find a temporary fix for moderately cold temps. cp-e gave it away for free.

I haven't!? That free fix wasn't good enough regardless of how free it was. If you could datalog the cause of the cut it would have been solved a long time ago. Regardless of how many tables there is for it, it's fixed on these AP maps and CP-E removed it from 234 parameters. What's the problem?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson First of all you dont know what the fuck your talking about, i said a boost source line going to the wastegate solenoid, that has ZERO to do with the blow off valve and EVERYTHING to do with boost control. If your wastegate solenoid/boost source tube coming off of the turbo pops off your wastegate will remain shut causing you to grossly overboost until you get a BOOST CUT. <--- Yep that boost cut just saved your engine. My point, if the Standback is controlling boost and it detects overboost it will induce a fuel/boost cut from what i remember(I recall someone running a large turbo maxing out the MAP sensor and CP-E had to mod their standback not to induce a fuel cut with the large amounts of boost it was seeing or something along those lines). Where as if a Stock ECU /cobb flashed ecu overboosts due to the situation i described above with the fuel/boost cut completely disabled there is nothing stopping your engine from grenading. You seem to think that completely removing the fuel/boost cut is for everyone in every application when it clearly is not. Prove me wrong.

no let me be more clear.... geez you guys are over the top. and dont cuss me when you know so little.

my hose on the boost source pops off. my boost spikes 30-40 psi with my gt3071. my hks bpv blows off the fucking cold pipe into the middle of the shop floor. this happened at my last dyno.

its happened 5 other times on the street...where ive boosted 30+ psi. i was messing with pids, and pill sizes and got lazy with zipties. jumping off the gas is what saved me. that and a built bottom end.

mazda boost/fuel cut fucking did nothing.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Probably because we made him look like an idiotic troll in his own section.

among the cobb big mouths... i gladly will be perceived as a troll. shit i'll be head troll. as long as my side has no problems... and i keep selling a shitton of parts. and i have almost poerfect cusotmer reviews/satisfaction with the parts. then im cool.


do you people not get my role is different than just being some bigmouth user with a part i like?

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 No I don't think so, finding the cause is groundbreaking, modifying or removing it (whatever works best for you) is the good end result of finding it.

so you find gold in the ground and then leave it there because you think its a rock....nice.

i think its interesting that haltech is a big supporter of dialing out cut. did he have it on his car? do you think he asked for it?

maybe you dont know what the fuck youre talking about? maybe i dont either? hows that for groundbreaking?

[MZRDISI4]

Originally Posted by palerider so you find gold in the ground and then leave it there because you think its a rock....nice.

No sorry, it doesn't work like that. Nice try though, maybe not.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by MZRDISI4 No sorry, it doesn't work like that. Nice try though, maybe not.

did anybody ever even ask if all cut could be removed? thats all weve even been working on over here. weven been begging for it. whoosh and others have left the community because of it.

whod have thought that all along the same guys who can barely tune a mscai... also had a firgging fix. i wish you would have spoke up. whoosh wouldnt have left.

i wonder why christian didnt tune out all his cut back when they were working together. man alot of question marks.

how about we just see what cobb says in the morning. if indeed they could have done this all along... then thats just crazy as hell. why didnt they SAY SOMETHING over the last 6 months when its all anybody was talking about.

[phailerider]

well screw it. it doesnt matter if cobb could have done this all along or not. its not like ive been asking kevin every week for 6 months.

hey bova... those graphs off the ap. did they use the same mazda pids as on the dashhawk or are these specific cobb maps. i ask becuase i know my dashhawk isnt always accurate and looking at that it makes me wonder if i should use my ap to datalog with.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by bova80 and there you have it, thanks ron!

there you have what? maybe christian can comment here.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider among the cobb big mouths... i gladly will be perceived as a troll. shit i'll be head troll. as long as my side has no problems... and i keep selling a shitton of parts. and i have almost poerfect cusotmer reviews/satisfaction with the parts. then im cool. do you people not get my role is different than just being some bigmouth user with a part i like?

Yep its to be a bigmouth vendor with parts to sell so you go out of your way to bash the competition anyway you can even when its uncalled for / off topic. Remember your the one who started this by slinging mud first. Im just stating my opinion on WHY you do it.

It doesnt matter if we disagree about what the proper application of the ECU's fuel cut is. (or if it should be there in the first place). It doesnt matter. When you cant debate a topic in a thread without going around attacking a completely unrelated companies product it tends to make people think your an shady vendor just looking to get a parts sale anyway he can. THAT is my one and only issue with you.

You can promote and sell a product without attacking the competition. Just like i can have an opinion and not have an agenda. Im not selling anything. I dont get anything if someone buys a particular product. I have no vested interest in the success of Cobb or CP-E.

In my opinion competition in the MazdaSpeed aftermarket parts arena is only a good thing, the more we debate the pluses and minuses of each product and their features the better off the customer will be off in the end. If we cant do that without slinging mud and attacking the other side that is unfortunate and impedes the progress of our platform. If you feel i have attacked CP-E in anyway please point it out, But to my knowledge i have never done such a thing. Who knows i may switch back to Standback + FCF in the future if i feel i have reached the end of the road with the AP.

[phailerider]

So youd be cool if i came into a Cobb thread and said i think the AP should only be sold if customers sign a waiver? in other words.... "my personal opinion" is that its so dangerous that Cobb should "protect" themselves with written waivers. thats ridiculous.

youre so full of shit talking about how "middle of the road" you are.

im not a vendor first, im a user first. i became a vendor because i BELIEVE in their products and if i ever didnt believe id quit selling them. and its only about 5-6 of you cobb guys that antagonize me and forces me to jump up and be a dick.

and i admit it. i can be a dick about it. but dont you play all high and mighty with me. you and a few others take every oppurtunity you can to try and show the superiority of the parts "you like".

hows this. instead of attacking me, and me attacking you. how about the next time theres a thread in my section you just stay the hell out. that way i can go another 4-5 months and not post in here either, even when you all are going off on the parts i sell.

and you know whats funny. i really dont have an issue with cobb anymore. i think their product is coming around at last. when i made my comment over there it wasnt an attack on cobb. it was an attack on your ass for coming into my section and suggesting that the part i'll be selling needs a waiver.... that its dangerous.

i dont make statements like that about cobb ap tunes, you know why?
1. its ludicrous
2. i dont want to get my ass sued.

i'll stay out of here and i'll keep an eye to make sure you stay out of my section too.

[MZRDISI4]

im not a vendor first, im a user first.

[itzl0l]

damnit cant we all get along

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider So youd be cool if i came into a Cobb thread and said i think the AP should only be sold if customers sign a waiver? in other words.... "my personal opinion" is that its so dangerous that Cobb should "protect" themselves with written waivers. thats ridiculous.

Sure you can, but i might disagree with you and/or call you a troll. You have can have an opinion too its OK.
I said *I* personally wouldn't sell it without a waiver i didn't say CP-E should do the same, but then again i wouldn't sell any tuning product tuned by the end user without the same sort waiver if they fuck up their engine because they do something stupid with it. People are entirely way to sue-happy these days.

Originally Posted by palerider youre so full of shit talking about how "middle of the road" you are. im not a vendor first, im a user first. i became a vendor because i BELIEVE in their products and if i ever didnt believe id quit selling them. and its only about 5-6 of you cobb guys that antagonize me and forces me to jump up and be a dick. and i admit it. i can be a dick about it. but dont you play all high and mighty with me. you and a few others take every oppurtunity you can to try and show the superiority of the parts "you like".

Your still a vendor with a vested interest in making money by selling CP-E parts whether you believe in their products or not does not change the fact your naturally biased because you sell solely CP-E parts and make money from it. And thats fine you have a bias just as long as you admit you have one.

Oh, I'd be extremely interested in seeing any post i have made that:
A. "antagonizes you"
B. Attacks CP-E or their product.
C. Compare's CP-E's product to Cobb's product in an unfair way.
D. Plugs Cobb's product in your section
E. Show's unfair bias towards one product or another
But you will not find anything because it doesn't exist to my knowledge.

Yet you act like i'm some big mouthed Cobb guy who bullies you at every turn but you cant prove or give me any instance where i have acted or said anything like that. You act like this is some Cobb VS CP-E battle to the death and everyone with a different opinion than you is the enemy. Why cant we have a discussion / debate about merits of each product without turning it into a pissing match? Because thats *exactly* what you just made it into when you called cobbs tuning "shitty".

I want every MS3 and MS6 to have a feature complete , reliable, powerful tuning solution just as much as the next guy. I dont particularly care what company provides it either. If its CP-E or Cobb thats great i will buy/use whatever product is best for my situation at any given time.

Why cant you grow up and be better than those guys who "antagonize" you rather to sink to their level and call cobb's product "shitty" in the middle of a perfectly civil discussion. I certainly have never done that except where i said you dont know what the fuck you were talking about because you misquoted my previous post earlier in this thread.

Originally Posted by palerider hows this. instead of attacking me, and me attacking you. how about the next time theres a thread in my section you just stay the hell out. that way i can go another 4-5 months and not post in here either, even when you all are going off on the parts i sell.

First of allI never attacked you, but lets get the gist of what your saying:
Everyone has to blindly follow CP-E and Palerider and everything thing they sell in your section without question without free thought and opinions or they are not welcome. Ok got it. Maybe you should sticky that so everyone is aware.

Originally Posted by palerider and you know whats funny. i really dont have an issue with cobb anymore. i think their product is coming around at last. when i made my comment over there it wasnt an attack on cobb. it was an attack on your ass for coming into my section and suggesting that the part i'll be selling needs a waiver.... that its dangerous. i dont make statements like that about cobb ap tunes, you know why? 1. its ludicrous 2. i dont want to get my ass sued.

Changing your story mid debate. Nice. Im pretty sure anyone who read that interprets you calling Cobb's tune shitty as an attack on cobb and not an attack on me. But go on ahead and jump in "PaleRiders TimeMachine" and change what you said so as to suit your current argument whenever you please.
Oh and you just contradicted yourself as the following statements made by you dont seem to agree with each other
First you referred to Cobbs tune being shitty
and just now you said "I think their product is coming around at last"
and then
"I dont make statements like that about cobb ap tunes"

Sure doesnt sound like you have your mind made up about the quality of Cobbs tune. Maybe you should think it over and come back when you have come to a conclusion and make a post without contradicting yourself.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider youd still overboost bro. ive done that like 5 times now. ive blown the bov right off the ic. if a hose comes off it doesnt have anything to do with fuel cut programmed into the ecu.

Also, thats is called compression surge not overboosting because all your blow off valve does is let off pressure built up in your intake tract when your throttle plate is closed so you dont get compression surge caused by the pressure hitting your *closed* throttle plate which damages your turbo, not your engine.

If your boost source for your wastegate solenoid pops off the ECU has no way of controlling boost other than a boost cut by forcing the throttle plate shut

Here I made a nice diagram for you

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Sure you can, but i might disagree with you and/or call you a troll. You have can have an opinion too its OK. I said *I* personally wouldn't sell it without a waiver i didn't say CP-E should do the same, but then again i wouldn't sell any tuning product tuned by the end user without the same sort waiver if they fuck up their engine because they do something stupid with it. People are entirely way to sue-happy these days.

so if i say.. it im a troll. but if you say it.. your voicing an opinion...lol well bottom line is i didnt say it...you did troll. and what youd "personally" do is fucking irrelevent. the fact that you insinuate its dangerous, and needs a waiver, which is ridiculous... might get a letter from an attorney.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Your still a vendor with a vested interest in making money by selling CP-E parts whether you believe in their products or not does not change the fact your naturally biased because you sell solely CP-E parts and make money from it. And thats fine you have a bias just as long as you admit you have one. Oh, I'd be extremely interested in seeing any post i have made that: A. "antagonizes you" B. Attacks CP-E or their product. C. Compare's CP-E's product to Cobb's product in an unfair way. D. Plugs Cobb's product in your section E. Show's unfair bias towards one product or another But you will not find anything because it doesn't exist to my knowledge.

isnt this what we all do? isnt it our "opinions" that generate the debate? why are your opinions allowed and im just a troll. i state reasons for my case. as do you. its your reasons, AND your bias i take issue with. as you with i.

and i started the saloon and store and dropped my other roles around here because i was biased. it doesnt mean my posts are all wrong, it just means my preferences are clear. Im biased BECAUSE i think cpes products are superior, and any customer ive spoken too, will say that in some cases i HAVE encouraged a competitors product depending on the circumstances. Primarily fuel pumps, and customers who live in the immediate vicinity of tim bailey..lol oh.. and as long as they dont have a bt either.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Yet you act like i'm some big mouthed Cobb guy who bullies you at every turn but you cant prove or give me any instance where i have acted or said anything like that. You act like this is some Cobb VS CP-E battle to the death and everyone with a different opinion than you is the enemy. Why cant we have a discussion / debate about merits of each product without turning it into a pissing match? Because thats *exactly* what you just made it into when you called cobbs tuning "shitty".

your not the worst. there are guys like mzrdisi4 who doesnt post shit about anything except how great cobb is and how shitty cpe is. bova, bravnik, dread... guys who are just as bad if not worse than i'll ever be. some are decent posters, but their MO is ooobvious.

ive not waged this argument until your ridiculous, slanderous comment in my vendor section about the "dangers" of removing fuel cut..... the "liability" for such a dangerous act. if one customer is affected... then i should make you prove it in court.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Why cant you grow up and be better than those guys who "antagonize" you rather to sink to their level and call cobb's product "shitty" in the middle of a perfectly civil discussion. I certainly have never done that except where i said you dont know what the fuck you were talking about because you misquoted my previous post earlier in this thread.

1. your post wasnt civil. it was slanderous. it ticked me, AND cpe off. they want to sell these, not defend them. especially to a bunch of cobb punks.
2. i didnt call cobbs product shitty. theyre not. i said "a shitty tune with an ap". smoe are some arent. i also said a shitty tune with a standback, or any tuning device later. some of those are, some arent. the point was the tune, not the product. my point was to say that fuel cuts to "protect" against a shitty tune are the issue. i mentioned AP because it was your quote i was resonding to.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson First of allI never attacked you, but lets get the gist of what your saying: Everyone has to blindly follow CP-E and Palerider and everything thing they sell in your section without question without free thought and opinions or they are not welcome. Ok got it. Maybe you should sticky that so everyone is aware.

asking questions is fine. trolling is not. your comment was trolling. it was insulting. and it pissed cpe off. it pissed me off. what dont you get? and if youre going to post over in my section... id be careful what you say if you expect the post to stick around. the gos for anybody that has an isssue with me "personally" or cpe "personally", as well. id expect the same for myself here.

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Changing your story mid debate. Nice. Im pretty sure anyone who read that interprets you calling Cobb's tune shitty as an attack on cobb and not an attack on me. But go on ahead and jump in "PaleRiders TimeMachine" and change what you said so as to suit your current argument whenever you please. Oh and you just contradicted yourself as the following statements made by you dont seem to agree with each other First you referred to Cobbs tune being shitty and just now you said "I think their product is coming around at last" and then "I dont make statements like that about cobb ap tunes" Sure doesnt sound like you have your mind made up about the quality of Cobbs tune. Maybe you should think it over and come back when you have come to a conclusion and make a post without contradicting yourself.

listen dipshit. its no time machine. you just dont know what the fuck youre talking about.

1. you insult cpe and insinute that this breakthrough is dangerous. its not. they dialed out all fuel cut in a way that cobb hasnt. That i know for a fact. and if you knew how they did it, youd know it too. youd also know that what hapopensnow is not dangerous. its safer. but that will all be public later... and it wont be me that discusses it.

2. after youre insult i say a "shitty ap tune". do you deny that there have not been shitty ap tunes? how about standback tunes? it had nothing to do with aps or cobb in general asshole. it had to do with tunes that were unsafe and induced cut.

3. i stated as i have before that the ap tunes have come around. my only remaining issues are why the lack of bt results, and why haltech wont post a dyno. i mention it twice a month these days. im not bothered by it.

4. so to reiterate... some of cobbs tunes are looking great, and some still are on the drawing board. what dont you get? either way fuel cut coming 1 full second and 60 revolutions after a load calc has been exceeded isnt gonna save shit on the engine.

you dont even know what the hell it is cpe has even done, but you speak as if your an expert on the ecu as well as a product liability attorney. why dont you just stfu.

[superskaterxes]

wow i think we need to chill here. its over guys.......


P.S. im loving JJ's new avatar. its the lego version of randys old one haha

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Also, thats is called compression surge not overboosting because all your blow off valve does is let off pressure built up in your intake tract when your throttle plate is closed so you dont get compression surge caused by the pressure hitting your *closed* throttle plate which damages your turbo, not your engine. If your boost source for your wastegate solenoid pops off the ECU has no way of controlling boost other than a boost cut by forcing the throttle plate shut Here I made a nice diagram for you

gerbers for the baby.

i boost 30psi...i say oh fuck. i lay off the throttle.... the bov blows off the fucking cold pipe. THE POINT IS.... dumbass.... that there wasnt any cut to save me. this all started when YOU claimed that a cut would save you if a hose blows off. IT DOESNT. your foot saves you. a built bottom end saves you.

get into the time machine and go read your posts. that way you can see what the hell it is im responding to, when i write back. geez.... im done here. goofball city.

[bova]

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Also, thats is called compression surge not overboosting because all your blow off valve does is let off pressure built up in your intake tract when your throttle plate is closed so you dont get compression surge caused by the pressure hitting your *closed* throttle plate which damages your turbo, not your engine. If your boost source for your wastegate solenoid pops off the ECU has no way of controlling boost other than a boost cut by forcing the throttle plate shut Here I made a nice diagram for you

i'm going to have to go ahead and say its not called compression surge because if he is boosting so much the bypass valve will be shut and if there is enough pressure it could blow it off the flange, you wouldn't need compressor surge to do that which is when the pressurized air causes the turbine to spin the wrong way, but i'm sure you already knew that. i'm not picking a fight, i'm just trying to clarify on the way i see it.

[superskaterxes]

btw did u break the bolts off the BOV flange to get it to come off? i dont understand how u could have so much working pressure that u would blow it off. haha

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes btw did u break the bolts off the BOV flange to get it to come off? i dont understand how u could have so much working pressure that u would blow it off. haha

c clip snap ring. do a google search so you know what im talking about. i dont feel like drawing a diagram, or giving a seminar on bovs.

[JumpingJackson]

So by stating my OPINION that i believe completely removing the engines ability to cut fuel is dangerous Im attacking CP-E as a company and their product? I dont agree with that. I believe i can form an opinion on a particular feature of a particular product without attacking it as a whole and while doing so encourage productive debate on a product.
Arent potential customers allowed to form opinions and state them? Stating my opinion is not attacking CP-E yet you keep on saying that it is? Instead of overreacting why didnt you just reply saying you disagree with me and why?

Jordan answered and responded to my post without blurting out and attacking Cobb for no reason. I really dont see why you needed to do so other than perhaps you feel "bullied" by other posters here that i have no association with or or what i perceived to be your need to bash cobb so you can sell more CP-E Parts. I dont necessarily agree with the behavior of the people you mentioned earlier either and i do my best. You unfairly grouped me with those guys who do antagonize you. That was *never* my intent.

There is no argument that cobb's previous maps needed work but thats not what we were discussing in that thread. When i made that comment in your thread it had nothing to do with cobb or making CP-E or their product look bad and everything to do with my stating my opinion and gathering information. I wanted feedback from CP-E about my post in hope that Jordan would clarify(which he did). I made that post to get more information / other peoples opinions and to have a discussion. Not to piss on your cherrio's or CP-E's.

A troll is someone who makes off-topic posts with the intent to ellicit a negative reponse from people who read it. Your "cobb tune is shitty" post was Off topic and it certainly seemed like to me you were trying to make them look bad and piss people off. That is why i called you a troll.

I dont claim to be an expert but you have yet to prove me why im wrong. I'd love to discuss this with you or anyone without people making attacks on other companies/people and to have a civil discussion.

I concede removing the fuel cuts entirely may prove useful to some people in the pursuit of maximizing performance from their engine because of overzelous nature of the stock ECU's boost cut.

But take this scenario i mentioned earlier into consideration so that you may see my point of view as to why i believe it is potentially dangerous

Boost source line to wastegate pops off,causing boost pressure to spiral out of control:
Now 2 things can happen depending on your setup:

A. ECU detects overboost and shuts the throttleplate closed. IE: a boost cut (Stock/Cobb car)
B. ECU detects overboost but has boost cut disabled and you continue to overboost until you let off the gas or your engine explodes. Pretty good chance to damage your engine here (FullControl Flash / Standback with boost cut disabled)

or possibily
C. I remember jordan saying that since the standback is controlling boost if it sees boost totally out of whack of where it should be it will induce a cut. I could be wrong but i think of this as a good thing / benefit of the standback if true.
But if you only have the FCF with no standback you would still be back at B.

Now tell me how B. is less or equally dangerous to A. or if my scenario is flawed someway, i'd love to hear your or anyone elses input on this.
THAT is why i believe removing the boost cut is potentially dangerous.

Oh and calling me a dumbass is real mature BTW, and not conducive to a civil debate / mending relations. And pretty much the only people who makes tunes for AP's IS Cobb or cobb authorized tuners.. So when you refer to a "shitty cobb tune" You are pretty much attacking them as a company. (And only Haltech and one other place makes tunes for AP)

And by definition my opinion cannot be slanderous. Because its what i believe, i did not state that as fact.

slan·der
(slān'dər) n.

1. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Deadman you said dread, did you mean dead? or deadman? or me?

no...dread. youve got issues with me personally, but i dont recall you trolling cpe stuff. i know guys arent gonna like me if they lean towards cobb. that doesnt bother me.

its when misinformation is spread about the products i sell where i take great exception.

complain about the ic being off center, complain about the cdfps being too expensive, complain about our personalities. but just dont say shit like this....

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson I have no doubt Christian could do that, although i dont think it would be a very wise thing to do with the ECU controlling boost. Imagine your boost source line going to your boost control solenoid popping off.. overboost and your engine throws a rod. Definately not for everyone.

and shit like this, in a cpe section

Originally Posted by JumpingJackson Although this definately isnt for everyone, i would make anyone who has this done sign a disclaimer/waiver if i was selling it.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by bova80 i'm going to have to go ahead and say its not called compression surge because if he is boosting so much the bypass valve will be shut and if there is enough pressure it could blow it off the flange, you wouldn't need compressor surge to do that which is when the pressurized air causes the turbine to spin the wrong way, but i'm sure you already knew that. i'm not picking a fight, i'm just trying to clarify on the way i see it.

It may not be compression surge but its not overboost either.. Atleast not overboost in the engine as the boost pressure is not inside of the compression chambers at that point.

My point was having the line pop off of your blow off valve is not nearly as dangerous as having the line pop off your turbo that goes to your wastegate.

[Deadman]

half my shit is from cp-e lol, and im sure if we met in person it would be different i just cant take your damn biased thoughts on the i-NET! <3 I dont care what you say you sell for cp-e, it's your job to sell that product. Therefore i see you as biased =D

good thing ron gave me a centered intercooler!

[phailerider]

jackson...stating your opinion can OF COURSE be construed as trolling. what the hell do you think everybodys issue with me has been?

im stating my opinions. and to cobb guys, im trolling. ESPECIALLY if i do it in a cpe section, in a vendor subforum. state your biased opinions here.

you got to be kidding me. this is like arguing with a second grader.

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider no...dread. youve got issues with me personally, but i dont recall you trolling cpe stuff. i know guys arent gonna like me if they lean towards cobb. that doesnt bother me. its when misinformation is spread about the products i sell where i take great exception. complain about the ic being off center, complain about the cdfps being too expensive, complain about our personalities. but just dont say shit like this.... and shit like this, in a cpe section

Once again thats my opinion, not a fact. Im allowed to have an opinion right? Like what i believe to be true? If you disagree with my opinion prove me wrong. You dont have to get pissed off and get butt hurt.

Its not misinformation. You very easily could throw a rod due to overboosting.
Fact: I personally blew off the tube going to my wastegate this summer and my Cobb flashed ECU DID boost cut which i believe saved my engine. Once i put the tube back on and secured it the cut went away. How is stating my belief based on personal experience misinformation?

[JumpingJackson]

Originally Posted by palerider jackson...stating your opinion can OF COURSE be construed as trolling. what the hell do you think everybodys issue with me has been? im stating my opinions. and to cobb guys, im trolling. ESPECIALLY if i do it in a cpe section, in a vendor subforum. state your biased opinions here. you got to be kidding me. this is like arguing with a second grader.

Im not a troll just because i think disabling the boost cut is dangerous and i post about it in order to get more information / clarification / correction.

I WOULD Be a troll if I made an Off topic post in thread in such a way to specificaly get people riled up. My post was neither off topic OR intended to ellicit a negative response. ^-- GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD

You were a troll when you attacked Cobb for no reason? No one even mentioned them or their product. No one was attacking CP-E or their product. I dont know why you continue to believe this.