Why does your motor blow thread, look inside.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 thats all fine and dandy yes but its a band aid as i stated, there will be no meth/water injection on my car i assure you that =P its in the tune and combustion chamber design get those worked out your fine. As this thread only addresses motor not tune from what i have peruzed though. Fix the motor fix the tune, your fine. As i said its a combustion engine same properties apply as to anything else.

Just don't forget that the runners of the cly head will build up with oil and contaiminents (sp) over time. You can perform basic services to clean this from time to time but the WI would do a great job of keeping it clean all the time. If for that alone you should be able to pay for the WI kit over time due to the runner/cly head port service not being needed any longer (water works fine for this so there would be no need to add the meth to keep things clean, dropping the price even more based on the service intervals).

I agree with you that it is a bandaid but the other options are much more expensive and you could still end up needing to add a second fuel source (WI or 5th injector) in order to get the most out of the cars current set up.

I would have to say that the options do not favor going against WI and with the currect situation, WI is looking pretty good at keeping the stock motor happy. To each his own and we all have our right to share the opinions that we have.

[dadasracecar]

The engines in the Speed3/6/CX-7 are not lean burn. That is an advantage of DI but Mazda does not use it b/c the temps are extreme and would oxidize N and S in the fuel so you would get NOx and SOx from your exhaust.

[fbpem1]

I agree with you John i hear all of you yes its to each his own, but these are the only solutions out now so be it, i still stick to my guns and am agianst WI kudos for those who are for it.

Personally i wouldn't use it for its cleaning effects alone as i am a dealer tech and have constant access to the induction flush machine and chemicals, i have performed 4 induction cleanings on my car i will see if i can get my bore scope down there and snap some pics for you guys to show you what it looks like.

The one thing i'm seeing here, is your agreeing with me (i like that =D haha) but i also see overkill in this cars design, it has both cam timing and an EGR both are use for NOx reduction on emissions, whats the need for them both. I will run my car on the emissions dyno before and after a egr delete and see what the readings are, and post them up.

Tuning and Fuel injector solutions are needed along with the cylinder head design and block. I will personally be ending up with a sleeved block, rods and pistons (probably 9.5:1 static compression) and a worked over head and a large turbo once all is said and done. I know i could care less what happens with a stock motor because that is not the route i go with any car, thats asking for trouble. If you pull the head or pull the motor why not do everything else seems silly to me. Also i would love to see some valvetrain options with this car nothing like a big turbo + 9.k rev limit

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 I agree with you John i hear all of you yes its to each his own, but these are the only solutions out now so be it, i still stick to my guns and am agianst WI kudos for those who are for it. Personally i wouldn't use it for its cleaning effects alone as i am a dealer tech and have constant access to the induction flush machine and chemicals, i have performed 4 induction cleanings on my car i will see if i can get my bore scope down there and snap some pics for you guys to show you what it looks like. The one thing i'm seeing here, is your agreeing with me (i like that =D haha) but i also see overkill in this cars design, it has both cam timing and an EGR both are use for NOx reduction on emissions, whats the need for them both. I will run my car on the emissions dyno before and after a egr delete and see what the readings are, and post them up. Tuning and Fuel injector solutions are needed along with the cylinder head design and block. I will personally be ending up with a sleeved block, rods and pistons (probably 9.5:1 static compression) and a worked over head and a large turbo once all is said and done. I know i could care less what happens with a stock motor because that is not the route i go with any car, thats asking for trouble. If you pull the head or pull the motor why not do everything else seems silly to me. Also i would love to see some valvetrain options with this car nothing like a big turbo + 9.k rev limit

There are a few of us working on the higher rev limit and big turbo option. The valve train is readily avaliable for the car, you just have to know where to look.

The fuel injection solutions are all but done. There is a limit to how far you can push the DI motors, that is why everyone running the DI hard with a big turbo is running meth. You have to understand the restrictions in the parts before you just ask for a solution. 5.5mm feed line into the CDFP is not going to feed 600 WHP. There is a solution (second injector system) for the fuel but most are not going to use it due to cost and complexity. The only other option would be to run dual CDFP's and take it from there. Just because the car is a DI motor doesn't mean we can ignor the law of physics. BSFC still determines how much fuel the car will need to reach a particular HP goal. We are all bound with the shit fuel system that Mazda gave us. We are working on it as much as possible.

[Renzokuken]

I just wanted to add that I have yet to have any problems with my motor. I live in Cali and i commute it everyday to work. My car is fully modded TBE/I/FMIC/CDFP/MBC/etc. Im currently at 35K, still no issues. I drive my car everyday like I stole it. I once drove my car nonstop for 10 hours straight from Cali, through Las Vegas, through the desert during the summer, and still no issues. I dont know, maybe once you get past that 20K mark I think youre pretty safe, but still, I wouldnt put money on it.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Renzokuken I just wanted to add that I have yet to have any problems with my motor. I live in Cali and i commute it everyday to work. My car is fully modded TBE/I/FMIC/CDFP/MBC/etc. Im currently at 35K, still no issues. I drive my car everyday like I stole it. I once drove my car nonstop for 10 hours straight from Cali, through Las Vegas, through the desert during the summer, and still no issues. I dont know, maybe once you get past that 20K mark I think youre pretty safe, but still, I wouldnt put money on it.

Maybe driving the car hard all the time saves it? Hell who knows.

What boost level are you running and no tune? Seems that more then one car can live with out a tune on it.

[Renzokuken]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Maybe driving the car hard all the time saves it? Hell who knows. What boost level are you running and no tune? Seems that more then one car can live with out a tune on it.

Yeah, no tune, Im such a procrastinator. I ran 100 octane in the car pretty much till gas went down.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Renzokuken Yeah, no tune, Im such a procrastinator. I ran 100 octane in the car pretty much till gas went down.

Boost levels? Just wondering how much you were running.

[06Speed6]

Valvetrain parts are not readily available, if they were I could have them already. If you wanted to run a $1200 fully custom valvetrain that is possible, but I would not call that readily available.

[Renzokuken]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Boost levels? Just wondering how much you were running.

I have been running 18-20 PSI. Depends on how I feel. I been cutting a bit lately cause of the weather, so I kept it at 18 and the cut is pretty rare now, only if I floor the crap out of it.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 Valvetrain parts are not readily available, if they were I could have them already. If you wanted to run a $1200 fully custom valvetrain that is possible, but I would not call that readily available.

Ferrera has all the parts we need in stock. The locks, retainers, and springs are all ready for us. I don't know what the application was and there was some issues with the spring seats that would have to be worked out, but.... they have all the parts ready for us. If need be I will get the part numbers for you guys so we can get these installed in your build if need be. Let me know.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Renzokuken I have been running 18-20 PSI. Depends on how I feel. I been cutting a bit lately cause of the weather, so I kept it at 18 and the cut is pretty rare now, only if I floor the crap out of it.

Sounds good, seesm that those that beat on there cars with some extra boost don't have problems. Then again, one never knows what might happen.

[JimmyMac]

I beat my car with extra boost (20psi), over 25k on the motor, done plenty of 10hour trips from NC through the mountains to Ohio several times, and look at me now. Of course not everyone had a boost spike of 30psi either though haha. If it weren't for that spike, I bet I would be okay today.

Someone needs to make an intake manifold and fuel rail for this car so I can dump the DISI crap.

Hey PT, did you ever measure the piston pin for me?

[Renzokuken]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac I beat my car with extra boost (20psi), over 25k on the motor, done plenty of 10hour trips from NC through the mountains to Ohio several times, and look at me now. Of course not everyone had a boost spike of 30psi either though haha. If it weren't for that spike, I bet I would be okay today. Someone needs to make an intake manifold and fuel rail for this car so I can dump the DISI crap. Hey PT, did you ever measure the piston pin for me?

There was one night when I was coming home from work and I was having boost spikes of 30 PSI. It was like a random thing. I took it out the next morning and there was nothing. I looked everything over and didnt find anything out of the ordinary.

[JimmyMac]

Really? What's up with that? When did you notice the spike? Before or after the run? Mine was after I ran the car through 2 1/2 gears. How long ago was it? Octoberish? Maybe there was sun flare that made our cars have brain farts and overboost..... yeah... sounds about right... hehe.

[Renzokuken]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac Really? What's up with that? When did you notice the spike? Before or after the run? Mine was after I ran the car through 2 1/2 gears. How long ago was it? Octoberish? Maybe there was sun flare that made our cars have brain farts and overboost..... yeah... sounds about right... hehe.

It was around August I believe. It was out of nowhere. Im just gonna assume it was my boost gauge and nothing else. Only happened that one night, and never again.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by JimmyMac I beat my car with extra boost (20psi), over 25k on the motor, done plenty of 10hour trips from NC through the mountains to Ohio several times, and look at me now. Of course not everyone had a boost spike of 30psi either though haha. If it weren't for that spike, I bet I would be okay today. Someone needs to make an intake manifold and fuel rail for this car so I can dump the DISI crap. Hey PT, did you ever measure the piston pin for me?

Not yet, we have them in storage and I have yet to make it over there.

Intake manifold and fuel solution is on its way, should have something for you guys to look at before the start of the year.

[Speedie6]

I'm just wondering about a few more mundane ways of keeping engine a bit cooler. For one, AWR makes a performance aluminum radiator. Would this be of any help? Or, is it insignificant for this particular problem?

There are also options on fluid for the radiator. I can run with only a little anti-freeze as I live in Houston and it doesn't freeze too hard. I use additional anti-corrosion inhibiters. Specifically, I've used Hyper-Kuhl (from NoRosion) for years. Of value?

I've replaced my cartridge oil filter with a spin-on and using a larger filter. That adds maybe a pint of oil capacity. I have bought, but not yet installed the balance shaft delete and oil pan baffle. This will increase the oil capacity another quart or so, I'm told. So, these might keep temperatures down some, right?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I'm just wondering about a few more mundane ways of keeping engine a bit cooler. For one, AWR makes a performance aluminum radiator. Would this be of any help? Or, is it insignificant for this particular problem? There are also options on fluid for the radiator. I can run with only a little anti-freeze as I live in Houston and it doesn't freeze too hard. I use additional anti-corrosion inhibiters. Specifically, I've used Hyper-Kuhl (from NoRosion) for years. Of value? I've replaced my cartridge oil filter with a spin-on and using a larger filter. That adds maybe a pint of oil capacity. I have bought, but not yet installed the balance shaft delete and oil pan baffle. This will increase the oil capacity another quart or so, I'm told. So, these might keep temperatures down some, right?

I don't think it would help much but there could be some issues with the water pump. There is no back plate on the pump and that could be causing some issues with cavitation. Just guessing.


Yes, and that is where we are headed as well. There could be some issue with the oil cooler as well but I have yet to have this part tested and I don't think we have problems with the pump coming apart. So, I am going to stick to my widage tray and baffle idea and try to get this out to you guys ASAP.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by ptperformance I don't think it would help much but there could be some issues with the water pump. There is no back plate on the pump and that could be causing some issues with cavitation. Just guessing.

I guess you lost me. I assume this is in relation to my questions about the AWR radiator and possible changes to the fluid. But I guess I didn't quite get what you are saying here. AWR aluminum radiator bad? Less antifreeze bad?

Originally Posted by ptperformance So, I am going to stick to my widage tray and baffle idea and try to get this out to you guys ASAP.

I bought the F2 tray, but, hadn't installed it yet. Looks pretty cheap. If you come out with something better soon, I may wait. Any sort of ETA?

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I guess you lost me. I assume this is in relation to my questions about the AWR radiator and possible changes to the fluid. But I guess I didn't quite get what you are saying here. AWR aluminum radiator bad? Less antifreeze bad? Not bad I just don't see it helping that much. A lower temp t-stat would be a better option then replacing the radiator. It would have more benifits then a new radiator. I bought the F2 tray, but, hadn't installed it yet. Looks pretty cheap. If you come out with something better soon, I may wait. Any sort of ETA?

No idea on ETA but I am going to be working on this over the next week. It would require that you remove the BS assembly so it would have to be 2 kits in one type of deal. I will keep you guys posted on this and if all goes well I should have something ready in the next 2 months.

[06Speed6]

Originally Posted by ptperformance Ferrera has all the parts we need in stock. The locks, retainers, and springs are all ready for us. I don't know what the application was and there was some issues with the spring seats that would have to be worked out, but.... they have all the parts ready for us. If need be I will get the part numbers for you guys so we can get these installed in your build if need be. Let me know.

That part does not fit, not even close. I had them measure their parts and I have full measurements for the stock exh and int valves. Those valves are for the MZR engine, but I think it is for a different car.

Of course I talked to them a couple months ago, if they have something new since then I wouldn't know about it.

[Superstretch18]

Originally Posted by Speedie6 I'm just wondering about a few more mundane ways of keeping engine a bit cooler. For one, AWR makes a performance aluminum radiator. Would this be of any help? Or, is it insignificant for this particular problem? There are also options on fluid for the radiator. I can run with only a little anti-freeze as I live in Houston and it doesn't freeze too hard. I use additional anti-corrosion inhibiters. Specifically, I've used Hyper-Kuhl (from NoRosion) for years. Of value? I've replaced my cartridge oil filter with a spin-on and using a larger filter. That adds maybe a pint of oil capacity. I have bought, but not yet installed the balance shaft delete and oil pan baffle. This will increase the oil capacity another quart or so, I'm told. So, these might keep temperatures down some, right?

Just playing devil's advocate, but if water temps are an issue, wouldn't blocking the radiator with a honking huge fmic just exacerbate the situation. Also, isn't the oil cooler right in front of the radiator as well?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Superstretch18 Just playing devil's advocate, but if water temps are an issue, wouldn't blocking the radiator with a honking huge fmic just exacerbate the situation. Also, isn't the oil cooler right in front of the radiator as well?

Oil cooler is cooled by the coolant - it's not an air-oil cooler so it's attached to the oil filter housing.

[Speedie6]

Originally Posted by Superstretch18 Just playing devil's advocate, but if water temps are an issue, wouldn't blocking the radiator with a honking huge fmic just exacerbate the situation. Also, isn't the oil cooler right in front of the radiator as well?

Yes, that is true. And one reason I am sticking with a TMIC. And, I would get an upgraded radiator before considering a FMIC.

[fbpem1]

does fluidyne make one? havn't bothered looking.

[bova]

how about this reasoning......

a lot of you guys like to run high boost all the way to redline. well perhaps this engine doesn't like really high boost at higher rpm's so its better to have it taper off a good deal there. if you are running high boost all the way to redline then you could be weakening the rods or pins. and then the reason they blow at lower rpm's is because this is when the most load is on the engine so the weak spot gives way and the motor blows. this is just a theory i have thought about and have had some others agree with me.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 That part does not fit, not even close. I had them measure their parts and I have full measurements for the stock exh and int valves. Those valves are for the MZR engine, but I think it is for a different car. Of course I talked to them a couple months ago, if they have something new since then I wouldn't know about it.

one of the head R&D guys at ferrera was at PRI and he knew nothing of anything related to the 2.3L mazda when i approached him. He only spoke of the 2.3L durattech and he had no clue if they were similar or not.

[myspeedy07]

Originally Posted by bova80 how about this reasoning...... a lot of you guys like to run high boost all the way to redline. well perhaps this engine doesn't like really high boost at higher rpm's so its better to have it taper off a good deal there. if you are running high boost all the way to redline then you could be weakening the rods or pins. and then the reason they blow at lower rpm's is because this is when the most load is on the engine so the weak spot gives way and the motor blows. this is just a theory i have thought about and have had some others agree with me.

^^^+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

I do not think these cars can handle high boost all the way to redline. That is why the stock Mazda tune cuts so much toward redline.

[fbpem1]

the stock motor has problems as most do, just this cars is more noticeable, i plan to run a 9.5k redline and blow 30psi all the way till that redline once all i said and done.

This motor can't handle said amount of heat and pressure becuase of its other shortcomings causing people only to look at said part thats breaking and looking past all other things that can cause it.

someone send me a flow bench i've got my porting kit sitting beside me i'm gonna go to work lol fuck this combustion chamber design

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by 06Speed6 That part does not fit, not even close. I had them measure their parts and I have full measurements for the stock exh and int valves. Those valves are for the MZR engine, but I think it is for a different car. Of course I talked to them a couple months ago, if they have something new since then I wouldn't know about it.

There is some work that would need to be done but the spring, retainer, and locks do work. The valve can be purchased in there HD series and that would be more then enough for the DIZI motors in our cars. I think the intake head has to be cut down and they have a dual spring set up for us as well.

To get this info I just sent them a complete set of parts for them to find something that worked. If you guys want I can get those part numbers for you, let me know.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by StreetUnitMark one of the head R&D guys at ferrera was at PRI and he knew nothing of anything related to the 2.3L mazda when i approached him. He only spoke of the 2.3L durattech and he had no clue if they were similar or not.

I think that is the parts they mentioned to me. The head has to be turned down on the intake in order to fit but the length and diameters are all the same. The springs, retainers, and locks came from the MZR motor I think???? I don't have all the details but there are options out there. You can always have a custom set done up at CV products for $1500 dollars as well. Again there are options out there you just need to do the work to find it.

[ptperformance]

Originally Posted by fbpem1 the stock motor has problems as most do, just this cars is more noticeable, i plan to run a 9.5k redline and blow 30psi all the way till that redline once all i said and done. This motor can't handle said amount of heat and pressure becuase of its other shortcomings causing people only to look at said part thats breaking and looking past all other things that can cause it. someone send me a flow bench i've got my porting kit sitting beside me i'm gonna go to work lol fuck this combustion chamber design

Send us your head and we will get the CNC set up to work its magic.

[redrocketz]

just so you guys do know MZR is just a designation for ANY modern 4 cylinder engine from mazda whether it has DI or not so the 2.0, 2.3, 2.5 and DISI engines are all MZR. it bugs me when people throw that around without realizing that.

[06Speed6]

I said the valves were for a MZR, as stated on ferrera's web site. The MZR that they are designed for is not our MZR. Those valves will not work without ALOT of work. The 5.5mm valve stems that I am working on is nothing compaired to the trouble of getting those to work. Also with the valves that I have, I can reuse the old springs, locks, and retainers and save some money. Custom valves + springs + retainters + locks + head work to even get them to work... might as well get a custom $1500 set of valves and save yourself some money.

[stevessvt]

I am curious, how many 09's have popped?

[Addikted To Boost]

Originally Posted by stevessvt I am curious, how many 09's have popped?

none that i have heard of yet... i drive the shit out of mine and no probs yet at 5000 miles.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by bova80 how about this reasoning...... a lot of you guys like to run high boost all the way to redline. well perhaps this engine doesn't like really high boost at higher rpm's so its better to have it taper off a good deal there. if you are running high boost all the way to redline then you could be weakening the rods or pins. and then the reason they blow at lower rpm's is because this is when the most load is on the engine so the weak spot gives way and the motor blows. this is just a theory i have thought about and have had some others agree with me.

then explain how chris and whoosh stayed together?

[bova]

they weren't pushing the stock turbo to all out extreme's at high rpms. and when chris was he had meth to help keep the temps down.

big turbo's = cooler air at higher rpm's and with all that ron had upgraded and as well as chris they were able to probably keep their cylinder temps down avoiding any damage.

if you ever look at the load % on the dashhawk you will see if you hit the low gears right the load will be quite significant. and if you strain your engine enough with high heat then something will go with all that load in low rpms, hence why most of the people that have their engines go have done it at low rpm.

[bf360]

Originally Posted by bova80 they weren't pushing the stock turbo to all out extreme's at high rpms. and when chris was he had meth to help keep the temps down. big turbo's = cooler air at higher rpm's and with all that ron had upgraded and as well as chris they were able to probably keep their cylinder temps down avoiding any damage. if you ever look at the load % on the dashhawk you will see if you hit the low gears right the load will be quite significant. and if you strain your engine enough with high heat then something will go with all that load in low rpms, hence why most of the people that have their engines go have done it at low rpm.

i agree with you on the low rpm high load thing with our motor stock turbo, hence why i dont under 3000 ever, minimum of 3000 rpm