Joe's Monster Gen2 Build

[Soto]

thats a shit load of parts

make genpu crowd proud.

[Speed3eak]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 in for fail 1. cpe core is too small for that turbo 2. even the best port jobs still wind up with creep on that turbo w/ iwg on this car 3. where's the rest of what u need to push more cyl pressure? injector seals? rv upgrade? oh well guess all that will be covered in the 6k labor.... how much was spent on the brianstorming for the name? 1k?

Damn, you could cut the hate with a knife in here.

1.) New cp-e core is massive - dimensions are 24” x 9.5” by 3.25”, what size would you say someone would need for a stock-flange 3071 (out of curiosity)?
2.) What about driver311? 801ms3 (or something similar)? They're both running IWG 3071 bolt-on turbos and seem to be having success with them - do you have links to the guys with port jobs with uncontrollable boost creep? Not meant to be an attack or anything, I just was interested in the proposition of a 3071 with IWG and would like to read as much as I can on it.
3.) This is true about the injector seals, wasn't aware about the inadequacy of the rail valve. Are you speaking of the high pressure rail valve that silverdemon, jumpingjackson and others are running? I wasn't aware that you needed an upgraded rail valve if you're only going to be requesting stock pressure (~1650-1800 psi) - do you have to request higher pressure for big turbos (1900 psi +)?

If $6k includes a PnP job for the IM and Head, I partially understand it. Then again, that is a ton of $$$ just to have anything installed. Idk, I'd say go for it if you have the money to spend.

I hope this guy does hit 400whp but I doubt it'll happen on the stock ex-mani and without some PnP work, and without WMI. But if you have 32k to spend on a car and you don't want to wrench it yourself, I don't see why a BT ms3 like this is a bad proposition. I'm sure he'll have some kinks to work out, but that's true of any big turbo build.

[Fatguy729]

I can't believe this. Of all the crazy shit I've seen on Msf, including sfw.... I made a simple, mildly funny comment about how decals suck and no one here cares about your stickers... Please just talk about more power!... And my post gets deleted? WOW!

[dizzydtrain]

@Speed3eak
You make some great points and I won't even get involved in the technical aspect of all his parts. I guess I am viewing this 10k upgrade from my own perspective instead of Op's. 32k for a speed3 that probably won't hit 400whp and still needs a few parts to run safely and hit that number just does not seem like a reasonable way to spend that money (yes, I know it's his money and as long as op is happy..yada yada).

I am just curious why he chose to pursue this route rather than some other options that are clearly within that 32k and probably will be less of a pain to deal with and work on.

[cpolly69]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Damn, you could cut the hate with a knife in here. 1.) New cp-e core is massive - dimensions are 24” x 9.5” by 3.25”, what size would you say someone would need for a stock-flange 3071 (out of curiosity)? 2.) What about driver311? 801ms3 (or something similar)? They're both running IWG 3071 bolt-on turbos and seem to be having success with them - do you have links to the guys with port jobs with uncontrollable boost creep? Not meant to be an attack or anything, I just was interested in the proposition of a 3071 with IWG and would like to read as much as I can on it. 3.) This is true about the injector seals, wasn't aware about the inadequacy of the rail valve. Are you speaking of the high pressure rail valve that silverdemon, jumpingjackson and others are running? I wasn't aware that you needed an upgraded rail valve if you're only going to be requesting stock pressure (~1650-1800 psi) - do you have to request higher pressure for big turbos (1900 psi +)? If $6k includes a PnP job for the IM and Head, I partially understand it. Then again, that is a ton of $$$ just to have anything installed. Idk, I'd say go for it if you have the money to spend. I hope this guy does hit 400whp but I doubt it'll happen on the stock ex-mani and without some PnP work, and without WMI. But if you have 32k to spend on a car and you don't want to wrench it yourself, I don't see why a BT ms3 like this is a bad proposition. I'm sure he'll have some kinks to work out, but that's true of any big turbo build.

i didn't know the new cpe core was bigger - guess they took notes from cobb and changed it

driver311 still creeps - he just lives with it - same for rodrigo - as long as exhaust flow is good - that turbo is gonna creep - ewg is the light

increased pressure does nothing - it's the ability to sustain the max pressure (around 1800) that's needed - w/ a better pump the stock relief valve just keep cycling the more you crank the power - w/ out a mod fp will not stay steady -

i've seen the results to turning a car over to folks w/ little experience w/ the platform, so yeah i'm a bit skeptical of anyone doing it...

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Damn, you could cut the hate with a knife in here. 1.) New cp-e core is massive - dimensions are 24” x 9.5” by 3.25”, what size would you say someone would need for a stock-flange 3071 (out of curiosity)? 2.) What about driver311? 801ms3 (or something similar)? They're both running IWG 3071 bolt-on turbos and seem to be having success with them - do you have links to the guys with port jobs with uncontrollable boost creep? Not meant to be an attack or anything, I just was interested in the proposition of a 3071 with IWG and would like to read as much as I can on it. 3.) This is true about the injector seals, wasn't aware about the inadequacy of the rail valve. Are you speaking of the high pressure rail valve that silverdemon, jumpingjackson and others are running? I wasn't aware that you needed an upgraded rail valve if you're only going to be requesting stock pressure (~1650-1800 psi) - do you have to request higher pressure for big turbos (1900 psi +)? If $6k includes a PnP job for the IM and Head, I partially understand it. Then again, that is a ton of $$$ just to have anything installed. Idk, I'd say go for it if you have the money to spend. I hope this guy does hit 400whp but I doubt it'll happen on the stock ex-mani and without some PnP work, and without WMI. But if you have 32k to spend on a car and you don't want to wrench it yourself, I don't see why a BT ms3 like this is a bad proposition. I'm sure he'll have some kinks to work out, but that's true of any big turbo build.

I think 400whp is unrealistic on a 3071 at this altitude (Denver area). I would think you need at least a 3076 and be FULLY bolted on WMI to have a shot at 400whp. Many of the dynos around here give way over inflated numbers on power output for turbo cars. Technically you COULD put down 400whp on a dyno here on a 3071 but it wouldn't be close to reality.

[Mizzle]

This will not hit 400 hp and I'm disappointed this thread exists only for false-joy.

[Speed3eak]

Originally Posted by cpolly69 i didn't know the new cpe core was bigger - guess they took notes from cobb and changed it driver311 still creeps - he just lives with it - same for rodrigo - as long as exhaust flow is good - that turbo is gonna creep - ewg is the light increased pressure does nothing - it's the ability to sustain the max pressure (around 1800) that's needed - w/ a better pump the stock relief valve just keep cycling the more you crank the power - w/ out a mod fp will not stay steady - i've seen the results to turning a car over to folks w/ little experience w/ the platform, so yeah i'm a bit skeptical of anyone doing it...

Oh gotcha - I hadn't looked at any of their datalogs. I knew rodrigo used a MBC with his, didn't know what driver 311 was using. I agree that ewg is the light for that particular turbo, but different companies make better/worse IWGs - holset and borg warner both have great IWGs that flow enough to prevent boost creep even at the power levels this guy is looking to achieve.

If I were spending $10k, I'd definitely wait and get one of the EFR setups from full race.

As for the relief valve, I know phate pressure tested his in the thread he made about e85 - IIRC, it held pressure all the way to 1900 psi. The people that have blown the OEM out that I know of (dougefresh and bmorrisj) have done so because their pressure was way too high, even at part throttle conditions.

I seem to remember reading about a tuning technique where you overwhelm the rail valve enough at WOT that the lowest pressure you see is the point at which it opens. But, for part throttle conditions, you keep it low enough that the rail valve stays closed all the time.

In ATR I've raised up my pressure targets for all loads above 1.2 and RPM above 2.5k to ~1850. Hopefully my rail valve holds, but if it doesn't at least I'll know what caused it and it'll be good info to have at any rate.

Thanks for clarifying on all that stuff.

Originally Posted by dsmluck I think 400whp is unrealistic on a 3071 at this altitude (Denver area). I would think you need at least a 3076 and be FULLY bolted on WMI to have a shot at 400whp. Many of the dynos around here give way over inflated numbers on power output for turbo cars. Technically you COULD put down 400whp on a dyno here on a 3071 but it wouldn't be close to reality.

Didn't socks make his 392 whp at the cp-e dyno on a 3071? I know it won't be the same at your altitude, but here on the east coast (aka near sea level), I think the 3071 is perfectly capable of an honest-to-god 400 whp if you have the supporting mods. That includes an exhaust mani, t3 flange and a 3" v-band exit for the turbo from what I can tell.

I was thinking about how tits a twin-scroll 3071 setup would be - kissing 400 whp with spool time like a 2871. Actually, you could have better spool than that and more power with the new GTX turbos from garret, and a divided housing with t3/v-band connections.

And yes, I've lost a significant portion of my life fantasizing about a twin-scroll GTX3071R setup.

[bertrand_CX_7]

Sounds already like a $1000 for 1 HP thing so 10 HP total.... fail

[bertrand_CX_7]

Originally Posted by MS33SM This is how i imagine it..... A 10k build should have 9k in parts and 1k in pizza,beer & hookers for your local Nator group during install.

Oh dang, I didn't read this one. This forum is really funny. Muss visit the forum each day before going to bed....

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by MS33SM This is how i imagine it..... Parts installed & on the dyno tuning Only achieving 350hp Continues to up boost Uncontrollable boost creep An Injector seal pops WGDC is maxed out Crazy boost spike Lean condition #3 rod is ejected out the bottom of the block Brownie donates to make a part out thread Dibs on your FP &.....well thats the only part in your build that's worth a damn A 10k build should have 9k in parts and 1k in pizza,beer & hookers for your local Nator group during install.

I don't think our local Nator is very organized. JP@edgeautosport.com was trying to get it going. I would help install shit for free. No pizza or hookers needed. Although i wouldn't turn down a HJ/BJ from said hookers.

[memoriesmazda]

You got to admit, all them parts look sexy tho

[JP@edgeautosport.com]

No posts were deleted because of their content. We didn't want this to be yet another blow up of you can't do this or this isn't going to work. I love this forum for what it is and I appreciate all of you donating to have a platform like this. However, this is unacceptable in our forum. Our section is not meant for bashing. It is educational, helpful, and a place where you can get excellent customer service on the parts that make your cars go faster. That's it.

We appreciate all of the input and there is nothing personal about this post. All future posts that are not helpful to our section will be deleted.

Thank you.

[dizzydtrain]

was really confused for a second here. Almost thought this was cp-e vendor section.

[bertrand_CX_7]

^^^^^ dizzy, you gotta be killing

@jp-edgeautosport-com: don't take it so personal... It's been quiet around lately beside: "Hey I blow up please check my logs" or "can I do Cobb DP with SLK AMG CBE" :bighlaugh: Let it pass men after the excitement you should see some nice post on this thread.

Hope you guys didn't forgot the AP.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak And yes, I've lost a significant portion of my life fantasizing about a twin-scroll GTX3071R setup.

I am not gonna lie. I fantasize about anything that starts with GT and doesn't spell K04.

[MS33SM]

I'm bashing falcon, not edge autosports. Falcon's mindset and mod path are fail. GTFO with mach 3. Your car isn't made by gillette. That also means a few guys on here are at mach 20.

I haven't bought anything from edge but you guys seem like a quality vendor. I've got nothing but love & leg humping for quality vendors.

[rfinkle2]

First I have to write that I know JP has excellent pricing, so if the owner of the MS3 spent $10k, there is NO DOUBT in my mind, that he is getting his $'s worth.

JP has given me nothing short of EXCELLENT service and pricing on anything that I've bought from him, and I've done a few $'s worth of business through him also.

LET ME SAY.... AS A FAN OF EDGE, and JP... Thanks for helping the OP with his build, making a solid attempt @ being a quality vendor, and best of luck with the build, power levels, and everything in general.

[Monotonous ONE]

We appreciate your efforts in big terboh genpu

But it is not us who need to understand anything.

You sir, need to understand that this is MSF. This is not some watered down <insert name of some bullshit mazda forum here>. There are things on MSF that you will HAVE to deal with if you choose to do business here. Take it or leave it. But I assure you that deleting posts, WILL leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.

CP-E couldnt take it. Now they no longer post here and i assure you they have lost a lot of business because of it.

But its entirely up to you.

[08.5MS3]

We are big and tough. We are the hardcore of Mazda performance.

Man, people need to get off their high horse.

This build is headed in the right direction. Keep it up.


Tapawhat?

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Monotonous ONE We appreciate your efforts in big terboh genpu But it is not us who need to understand anything. You sir, need to understand that this is MSF. This is not some watered down <insert name of some bullshit mazda forum here>. There are things on MSF that you will HAVE to deal with if you choose to do business here. Take it or leave it. But I assure you that deleting posts, WILL leave a bad taste in peoples mouth. CP-E couldnt take it. Now they no longer post here and i assure you they have lost a lot of business because of it. But its entirely up to you.

I just ask everyone to try and remember that JP is trying to strike a balance in this thread between a customer's personal parts preference / selection, and running a successful business.

[MS33SM]

Originally Posted by 08.5MS3 This build is headed in the right direction. Keep it up.

Yeah, it's headed towards fail.

[alien_sporez]

subbed for fappage... or part out

[rfinkle2]

First of all, there are MANY internally wastegated turbos that are good for well in excess of 400 hp.

Second, the customer has $, and we don't know of all of the parts going on the car.

Third... as long as the tune is sound, there is no reason to expect any fail.

Would some of us choose a different upgrade path, maybe, but why shit on this guys build?

[Abu Zib]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Would some of us choose a different upgrade path, maybe, but why shit on this guys build?

X2 good luck with build!! Can't wait to see the outcome!

[MS33SM]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 First of all, there are MANY internally wastegated turbos that are good for well in excess of 400 hp. Second, the customer has $, and we don't know of all of the parts going on the car. Third... as long as the tune is sound, there is no reason to expect any fail. Would some of us choose a different upgrade path, maybe, but why shit on this guys build?

Looks like the fun police have shown up. Can't we bash a brownie and not get interrupted by the brownie messiah?

[Monotonous ONE]

i think he should put in an order for a Steedspeed bro

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MS33SM Looks like the fun police have shown up. Can't we bash a brownie and not get interrupted by the brownie messiah?

Put yourself in JP's position and see how a thread like this is "fun" to you.

Besides that, will you show up and eat your words if this car puts down decent #'s on a dyno?

[MS33SM]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Put yourself in JP's position and see how a thread like this is "fun" to you. Besides that, will you show up and eat your words if this car puts down decent #'s on a dyno?

I am trying to help him not have an unsatisfied customer. Now is his chance to make changes.

He's gonna have a pissed off customer who spent 10k for <400hp. What is this brownie gonna do when his mach 3 build only hits mach 2?

This is brownie bashing, not vendor bashing.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MS33SM I am trying to help him not have an unsatisfied customer. Now is his chance to make changes. He's gonna have a pissed off customer who spent 10k for <400hp. What is this brownie gonna do when his mach 3 build only hits mach 2? This is brownie bashing, not vendor bashing.

I'm sure JP would appreciate any suggestions you might have toward the build.

Again, we don't know all of the parts on the list, who is tuning the car etc.

I find most of the "suggestions" so far (not all) misdirected jealousy toward the owner of the car to have a lump sum of $10k for a build.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Put yourself in JP's position and see how a thread like this is "fun" to you. Besides that, will you show up and eat your words if this car puts down decent #'s on a dyno?

I am sure the car will be fast. But the numbers at altitude uncorrected will not hit 400whp. You are looking at a 40-50 horsepower drop for this elevation. I bet it will get in the upper 300's uncorrected with a good tune. I am interested to see what it can do because I want to go 3071 myself.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by dsmluck I am sure the car will be fast. But the numbers at altitude uncorrected will not hit 400whp. You are looking at a 40-50 horsepower drop for this elevation. I bet it will get in the upper 300's uncorrected with a good tune. I am interested to see what it can do because I want to go 3071 myself.

Very true.

I don't know that JP promised the owner 400 hp, although I see the owner is expecting it.

Regardless, it puts JP in a tough position.

I'd bet both JP and the owner will be happy after the build is finished and the car is tuned and dyno'd.

[16-driver]

I'm confident that this build will be successful, but I'm basing this only on faith and the OP's deep pocket. I'm sure he'll do whatever he can to hit his plan and target. Plus, I'm an optimist.

Good luck!

[MS33SM]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I find most of the "suggestions" so far (not all) misdirected jealousy toward the owner of the car to have a lump sum of $10k for a build.

No jealousy. My 10k lump sump didn't go towards my car.

Anytime I spend 10k I do a lot of research regardless of the purchase. It would have been wise for this brownie to join MSF and pick the brains of our current BT members. Do you really think any of them would have suggested those mods? For 10k I would like to see a exhaust mani, V Band down pipe, 3076 or 35r Turddddbo and for fucks sake at least a EWG.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

If he hits 400hp on a dyno I'll be glad to eat my words. Car won't last very long but I will eat my words.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MS33SM No jealousy. My 10k lump sump didn't go towards my car. Anytime I spend 10k I do a lot of research regardless of the purchase. It would have been wise for this brownie to join MSF and pick the brains of our current BT members. Do you really think any of them would have suggested those mods? For 10k I would like to see a exhaust mani, V Band down pipe, 3076 or 35r Turddddbo and for fucks sake at least a EWG. A fool and his money are soon parted. If he hits 400hp on a dyno I'll be glad to eat my words. Car won't last very long but I will eat my words.

Your build ideas are limited to suggestions on msf.

There are some very high hp cars running internal wastegates.

As a matter of fact, most turbo upgrades for other platforms are internally wastegated.

[MS33SM]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Your build ideas are limited to suggestions on msf. There are some very high hp cars running internal wastegates. As a matter of fact, most turbo upgrades for other platforms are internally wastegated.

We aren't talking about other platforms. We're talking about the MZR motor and known issues with his part selection.

Excuse the crappy webcam pic and work plate & utensils. He will not hit 400HP.


Post the dyno #s

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MS33SM We aren't talking about other platforms. We're talking about the MZR motor and known issues with his part selection. Excuse the crappy webcam pic and work plate & utensils. He will not hit 400HP. Post the dyno #s

Turbocharging is turbocharging. The general rules and principals apply to all platforms.

Every time I read that the MZR is some sort of anomaly in some way, I wonder where people get that idea.

All platforms have their quirks.

Running an ewg on the street is in most cases, not only illegal, but impracticle for a DD.

Suggesting that missing the 400whp mark is what was meant by "fail" earlier in the thread is dishonest.

[MS33SM]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Turbocharging is turbocharging. The general rules and principals apply to all platforms. Every time I read that the MZR is some sort of anomaly in some way, I wonder where people get that idea. All platforms have their quirks. Running an ewg on the street is in most cases, not only illegal, but impracticle for a DD. Suggesting that missing the 400whp mark is what was meant by "fail" earlier in the thread is dishonest.

You're an idiot.

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by MS33SM You're an idiot.

I see the above as a last resort.

[16-driver]

Originally Posted by MS33SM We aren't talking about other platforms. We're talking about the MZR motor and known issues with his part selection. Excuse the crappy webcam pic and work plate & utensils. He will not hit 400HP. Post the dyno #s

You're left handed?

Just curious because of the placing of the knife and fork.