AEM WMI Failsafe Output

[achulz]

I know I’ll get a lot of slack for this but I’m using AEM’s MAP based WMI as aux fueling, 100% methanol. I will eventually switch out the stupid push to connect fittings for proper fuel lines (probably just switch to full port injection since I have the manifold for it already), but in the mean time I would like to hook up the ground output that acts as a failsafe. Currently I’ve just been keeping the tank more than 1/2 full but in the rare event that the methanol runs out and I’m in boost I’d like for my engine to not tear itself apart.

Question is where do I splice this 12V ground output to? My car is a 2013. And before someone says ‘search’ the only threads I’ve found say to get a Guardian Angel, and I’m not even running a BPV so that’s not an option for me since the Guardian Angle controls the BPV as a failsafe.

[Ds_06_Speed6]

Soooo, Mazda made the 2013 Speed without a BPV? Or you removed it?

[achulz]

Originally Posted by Ds_06_Speed6 Soooo, Mazda made the 2013 Speed without a BPV? Or you removed it?

Blocked it off since it started leaking pretty bad and I haven’t gotten a new one. I don’t really care if it ‘can damage the turbo’ like all the internet mechanics say because a 6466 is going in soon enough.

Can we get back on topic please? I’m not spending $250 on a GA when it already has a failsafe built in.

[Jeff23spl]

be carefull not to mix different things.

Your meth output isn't made for the same purpose of a GA.

Unless you have the full AEM failsafe system with the flow gage and extra stuff, the standard unit only trigger On when you are low in fluid or when the pump is dead. This isn't a fail safe but more a fault output. IT won't see a broken pipe or a plugged jet....
The most common way of using this kind of output is to wire it to a relay and have the relay wired to cut your EBCS signal.
Since the output give negative, you connect the other side of the relay coil to any fused 12v+ and then you wire both side of the NC contact of it to one of the wire going to the EBCS. This way, when AEM give grounds, the relay get activated and it's NC contact open and remove any wastegate duty to your EBCS to drop boost (return to mecanic wastegate spring boost)

The GA protection is made to protect against an overboost condition and use the BPV to make a good leak to drop boost. The Ga has an input to connect your meth fault output into it instead of playing with the EBCS wires but you need a BPV installed...

I won't argue with you for the benefit of a BPV but if you don't get this, you may still read a bit more before buying a 6466.

[achulz]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl be carefull not to mix different things. Your meth output isn't made for the same purpose of a GA. Unless you have the full AEM failsafe system with the flow gage and extra stuff, the standard unit only trigger On when you are low in fluid or when the pump is dead. This isn't a fail safe but more a fault output. IT won't see a broken pipe or a plugged jet.... The most common way of using this kind of output is to wire it to a relay and have the relay wired to cut your EBCS signal. Since the output give negative, you connect the other side of the relay coil to any fused 12v+ and then you wire both side of the NC contact of it to one of the wire going to the EBCS. This way, when AEM give grounds, the relay get activated and it's NC contact open and remove any wastegate duty to your EBCS to drop boost (return to mecanic wastegate spring boost) The GA protection is made to protect against an overboost condition and use the BPV to make a good leak to drop boost. The Ga has an input to connect your meth fault output into it instead of playing with the EBCS wires but you need a BPV installed... I won't argue with you for the benefit of a BPV but if you don't get this, you may still read a bit more before buying a 6466.

Thanks for the info. I’ll end up using my port injection manifold and a Split Second controller when the 6466 goes in, just wish there was a better way to control methanol injection. Might have to get an additional Split Second controller and just run another injector with 100% meth along with the other 4 additional injectors instead of messing with the AEM controller.

[Jeff23spl]

Are you planning fuel port injection or meth ? IMO The best and probably mandatory with a huge drag racing turbo is to inject gas and maybe from a secondary tank filled with race fuel.
I didn't see anyone with a split second driving methanol injection but maybe....
IMO the best methanol kit available : Aquamist HSF4.
---- 806-065 ----- HFS4-v3.1 system for DI engines The most advanced system to date. - aquamist-direct.com

There is other advanced methanol controller like the one i use:
https://torqbyte.com/products/torqbyte-cm5-lt

Or similar from snow
https://www.snowperformance.net/product-p/sno-70000.htm

There is no limitations about how much fuel you can use from methanol but it would be hard to come close to the reliability and control of gas port injection.

[achulz]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl Are you planning fuel port injection or meth ? IMO The best and probably mandatory with a huge drag racing turbo is to inject gas and maybe from a secondary tank filled with race fuel. I didn't see anyone with a split second driving methanol injection but maybe.... IMO the best methanol kit available : Aquamist HSF4. ---- 806-065 ----- HFS4-v3.1 system for DI engines The most advanced system to date. - aquamist-direct.com There is other advanced methanol controller like the one i use: https://torqbyte.com/products/torqbyte-cm5-lt Or similar from snow https://www.snowperformance.net/product-p/sno-70000.htm There is no limitations about how much fuel you can use from methanol but it would be hard to come close to the reliability and control of gas port injection.

Full port injection with 4 1000cc injectors. I have been considering adding another injector for methanol since the cooling effect is very helpful.

[Jeff23spl]

Ok i bet you mean gaz injectors when saying it, not 4x meth nozzles (Both are port injection)

And the best cooling effect is when meth is mixed with water.

[5doorsoffury]

Originally Posted by achulz And before someone says ‘search’ the only threads I’ve found say to get a Guardian Angel, and I’m not even running a BPV .

Originally Posted by Ds_06_Speed6 Soooo, Mazda made the 2013 Speed without a BPV? Or you removed it?

Originally Posted by achulz Blocked it off since it started leaking pretty bad and I haven’t gotten a new one.

Sorry but i stopped reading the thread after this part. LMFAO maby you should not go near wot until this is solved...... Maby you should "search"... There is a way to make a fail safe with a relay, EBCS and a 12$ boost switch......

[shaneski]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl Are you planning fuel port injection or meth ? IMO The best and probably mandatory with a huge drag racing turbo is to inject gas and maybe from a secondary tank filled with race fuel. I didn't see anyone with a split second driving methanol injection but maybe.... IMO the best methanol kit available : Aquamist HSF4. ---- 806-065 ----- HFS4-v3.1 system for DI engines The most advanced system to date. - aquamist-direct.com There is other advanced methanol controller like the one i use: https://torqbyte.com/products/torqbyte-cm5-lt Or similar from snow https://www.snowperformance.net/product-p/sno-70000.htm There is no limitations about how much fuel you can use from methanol but it would be hard to come close to the reliability and control of gas port injection.

Meth port injection - Setting mine up at the moment with split second controller and 4x1700 ID injectors AEM 350 LPH inline pump. A few cars are already running it. Justin from Freektune pretty much came up with it for his Silver Gen 2 - You can run what ever type of fuel in the Aux tank.

[Jeff23spl]

Originally Posted by shaneski Meth port injection - Setting mine up at the moment with split second controller and 4x1700 ID injectors AEM 350 LPH inline pump. A few cars are already running it. Justin from Freektune pretty much came up with it for his Silver Gen 2 - You can run what ever type of fuel in the Aux tank.

Nice!

Are you using fuel injectors to control meth ? Similar to a gas setup but the tank is filled with meth ?
Is it hard to find stuffs with seals that handle full methanol content ?

I bet you no longer use quick connect pipe?

I really like that route!

[5doorsoffury]

Originally Posted by shaneski Meth port injection - Setting mine up at the moment with split second controller and 4x1700 ID injectors AEM 350 LPH inline pump. A few cars are already running it. Justin from Freektune pretty much came up with it for his Silver Gen 2 - You can run what ever type of fuel in the Aux tank.

I bet you can use the stock feed and dump it into that meth rez and make a under hood surge tank for the entire fuel system if you wanted to fun ethanol or hell even in tank meth. looks awesome now if you just painted it black!

[shaneski]

Originally Posted by Jeff23spl Nice! Are you using fuel injectors to control meth ? Similar to a gas setup but the tank is filled with meth ? Is it hard to find stuffs with seals that handle full methanol content ? I bet you no longer use quick connect pipe? I really like that route!

The injectors in the port rail (injector dynamics 1700's) spray the meth via Split controller that is tuned to kick in via MAF voltage...The fittings are all AN and braided hoses...The inline pump runs constant with a return line back to the Aux tank to keep it circulating and pressurised...It will only spray when needed similar to a traditional meth kit but this set up can supply 400hp worth of Aux fueling.

5doorsoffury the tank will be coated black as well, it's just dummy fitted at the moment to get all the fittings etc right. The under bonnet tank running meth via the JMF rail and injectors are an individual system with a return line and inline pump (no surge set up needed)..The standard fuel tank uses stock fuel system and pump gas.

[Jeff23spl]

Perfect it is what i tough.
The precise injectors and pulsing controller is hard to be compared to a cheap traditional meth system. One start and stop a pump to spill methanol in the intake path while trying to adjust pump speed based to an incoming signal...Precision is inexistant, it lag at start and keep feeding for a second when it should stop...Not to mention the risks of leaks from the plastic lines and quick connect.
Yours is more like a reliable oem injection system from the 90s that remain in open loop
I really like it.