Going BIG

[Celestspeed3]

Here is a shot of the intake port work, I forgot to post it.



Engine 2012-05-14 at 17-30-33 by Celestial View, on Flickr


The valve seats are done with a bowl cut and the valve seats were ground down on the back side to improve flow further. The margins on the intake valves were cut as tight as safely possible which allows the valve to perform like an oversized valve of about 0.5mm, this was done to match the exhaust valves of +1mm.

[Snotrocket]

Img Fail! A lot of your images in this thread are showing as unavailable from my end..

[Celestspeed3]

just click the link underneath them. Flickr is stupid sometimes.

[silvapain]

Hmm.. Larger exhaust valves you say?

@GLORIFIEDBOZO

Let's do this.

[silvapain]

@Celestspeed3 I see you posted the valve guide P/N: LFY1-10-281, but I didn't see a P/N for the actual valves. Do you happen to have that?

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Can't see the pics at work but will definitely check this out when I get home. Thanks OP!

[Celestspeed3]

The valves are the supertech inconel duratec valves.

SUPERTECH01-MAEVI-2304

I got the supertech valve seals as well, I don't recall the part number.


Their full valve train fits as well, I just didn't see the benefit of the extra cost.

You can do their spring kit which comes with titanium retainers and everything but the machine shop said raising the redline to 7000rpm didn't need the upgrade. It couldn't hurt though but if you do get the spring kit the beehive 40lb one is the one to get.

[Ezekiel81923]

How'd you decide on that turbine housing? I'm planning / doing my build (stock block) soon and had pretty much decided on a the GTX3071 but your build...as most do...is getting me thinking.

I'll continue to follow this one.

[Celestspeed3]

I wanted something that was a good compromise in a turbo, with the ported head the GTX3076 "should" give me the spool of a 3071, and the power of a GT35.

I decided on the .82 turbine housing simply because it was in the middle range. If I want to shift my powerband I can go with the .63 or the 1.02 housings.

[duappleganger]

For the CP-e pistons, I read they were really designed with the spray pattern of the eco boost engine injectors in mind. I'm sure you know more than me but did you take that into consideration when picking the pistons?

[Celestspeed3]

The cpe pistons to my knowledge are basically the same as the stock gen2 pistons but forged. At the time of purchase that was the only way to get them.

After seeing how the gen1 and gen2 take to tunes it was clear the new piston design is worth the extra money. Be it purchased from cpe or from wiseco directy.

[djuosnteisn]

I might be confused, but i'm under the impression that there's 3 versions of wiseco pistons available for us: the flat top, the dished top, and the happy face.

Here's my thoughts on them:


- The flat top.



It works, haha. Been running it in my 6 for several thousand miles, and making decent power. Nothing fancy about it, and probably not ideal with the injector spraying in the chamber, but meh... it works. It was all that was avail when i built.


- The dish.



A new design closely modeled after the new gen pu piston. This is the one to get IMHO. The dish will help catch and re-direct the fuel spray some, away from the bore wall, and help with blow by / wall washing. I'm a little curious about how it affects the forces on the piston during combustion, like if there is more lateral loading than with the traditional flat top... but i'm sure mazda switched it over for a reason.


- The happy face.



IMHO, this is not intended for the mazda disi mzr. I feel it's more geared towards direct injection cars running stratified lean burn strategies, not full time homogeneous fueling like us. With a stratified burn strategy, the ecu will fire the injector multiple times, initially to create a very lean mixture for the full combustion chamber during the intake stroke, and then again during the compression stroke, as the piston nears the spark plug. The small pocket will essentially act as a miniature combustion chamber within the combustion chamber. That final squirt of fuel will bring the pocket up to a more stoich AFR so the plug can light it off and start the combustion process. It's intended to be extremely efficient during cruise...

But... when used on our motors (where the fuel injection is more like traditional PI cars), i have to wonder what that pocket would do to the afr mix. I kinda feel like it would create some rich and lean pockets in the cylinder and promote sloppy burn. We know we already have that issue as is with DI from all the soot out of our exhaust... but this could make it even worse.

I think there would be enough tumble and turbulence during normal light load, that it wouldn't make too much difference, but at wot, when the injector is spraying closer to TDC... it could have a much different effect.



Ugh, i guess i should work now...


@Celestspeed3, which pistons did you go with again? The regular dish design, right? Some of your flickr's are broken on my comp and i couldn't tell.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn - The happy face. IMHO, this is not intended for the mazda disi mzr. I feel it's more geared towards direct injection cars running stratified lean burn strategies, not full time homogeneous fueling like us. With a stratified burn strategy, the ecu will fire the injector multiple times, initially to create a very lean mixture for the full combustion chamber during the intake stroke, and then again during the compression stroke, as the piston nears the spark plug. The small pocket will essentially act as a miniature combustion chamber within the combustion chamber. That final squirt of fuel will bring the pocket up to a more stoich AFR so the plug can light it off and start the combustion process. It's intended to be extremely efficient during cruise... But... when used on our motors (where the fuel injection is more like traditional PI cars), i have to wonder what that pocket would do to the afr mix. I kinda feel like it would create some rich and lean pockets in the cylinder and promote sloppy burn. We know we already have that issue as is with DI from all the soot out of our exhaust... but this could make it even worse. I think there would be enough tumble and turbulence during normal light load, that it wouldn't make too much difference, but at wot, when the injector is spraying closer to TDC... it could have a much different effect.

Initially I agreed entirely with this, however I am not so sure any more. I believe that even though idea comes from a stratified direct injection system it is not entirely lost on our cars and rather then see a sloppy burn pattern it would cause a more efficient burn pattern. Cars that switch between stratified and homogeneous direct injection use these types of pistons without seeing negative effects. I haven't looked into whether there is a difference in the homogeneous spray or not though. And of course we know that the multi hole direction injection(homogenous) uses them with a positive effect. I do agree that gen2 style piston and is the safest bet since it was designed by Mazda for our cars and has been used in them.


Edit: I know @phate has talked to chris at InjectorRX about this, and may have soe more input.

[djuosnteisn]

I would love to read some more input. My comments are purely MHO and completely a shot from the hip. Perhaps the pocket helps induce even more tumble and turbulence that it actually helps... but i just kinda find it hard to believe.

I love being proven wrong, but i still kinda feel like this subject will be largely subjective. Without some significant modeling and experience, it's difficult to say how the mix in the chamber will behave for various load / rpm / injection styles. And even more difficult to define piston loads and hot spots.

DISI is sloppy regardless (at least at wot). So it may be that it just has no real effect whatsoever, be it positive or negative.

I wish wiseco would chime in on it some. Maybe i'll give em a call one day soon and chat. They're quite nice.

[Jackis]

Dustin, what is the code for both new-style Wisecos?

From what I know, K640M875 is not revised at all from the beginning. And what I put last spring in my motor - is still looking exactly like that:


PS: TS used CP in his build, by the way.

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn I would love to read some more input. My comments are purely MHO and completely a shot from the hip. Perhaps the pocket helps induce even more tumble and turbulence that it actually helps... but i just kinda find it hard to believe. I love being proven wrong, but i still kinda feel like this subject will be largely subjective. Without some significant modeling and experience, it's difficult to say how the mix in the chamber will behave for various load / rpm / injection styles. And even more difficult to define piston loads and hot spots. DISI is sloppy regardless (at least at wot). So it may be that it just has no real effect whatsoever, be it positive or negative. I wish wiseco would chime in on it some. Maybe i'll give em a call one day soon and chat. They're quite nice.

In an attempt not to complete jack this awesome build thread, I will post a couple of the inital papers I read in pablo's smiley face thread when I hit a slow spot in work today. IIRC one of them goes into tumble effects. Chris at InjectorRX might be a better subject matter expert, however the guys at Wiseco are super cool.

Originally Posted by Jackis Dustin, what is the code for both new-style Wisecos? From what I know, K640M875 is not revised at all from the beginning. And what I put last spring in my motor - is still looking exactly like that: PS: TS used CP in his build, by the way.

The only part number Wiseco has for us right now is the one you listed, everything else has to be done custom.

[djuosnteisn]

Or purchased through cp-e i think, right?

[GLORIFIEDBOZO]

Originally Posted by djuosnteisn Or purchased through cp-e i think, right?

Correct. There may be another company doing the same thing as CP-e and outsourcing through Wiseco also here soon, if there isn't others already.

[DaDoggi]

Hello, I am from Germany. Since you are running the Inconel Supertech Exhaust valves, I would like to know if you also used the original Valve clearance? So for the outlet 0.30mm? Sorry for my English .



greets Olli