GTX2867R build

[iwabo]

I own a 2013 ms3 with cpe top mount, hpfp, CORKSPORTPower Series Cold Air Intake with TIP, denzo one step colder plugs,cnt catted DP, cp-e stage 2 rmm. Just ordered myself a gtx2867 and 3port ebcs from justin@freektune. This is probably the bare minimum of upgrades needed to support the larger turbo, with that said I'm a bit lost where to take this build next (bov,tmap sensor,intake manifold,turbo manifold etc.). Any input would be amazing in my path for 400 whp


My hopes are to keep my internals stock and not detonate.

[GabbyChaves]

I have a very similar setup. I'm running a gtx2867r paired with the cp-e exhaust mani. Tial External west gate and cp-e downscream DP and dump tube. It sounds incredible with their exhaust mani and the EWG dumping straight to atmosphere.
If you plan on pushing the tune a bit id upgrade the MAP sensor. The CorkSport 3.5 bar map sensor is plug and play which makes life really easy for installation.
And if you really wanna go the next step then consider a Water/methanol kit too. I'm currently tuning mine and hoping to get to 400whp on stock block.

[GabbyChaves]

Pic of exhaust mani and ewg

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by GabbyChaves I have a very similar setup. I'm running a gtx2867r paired with the cp-e exhaust mani. Tial External west gate and cp-e downscream DP and dump tube. It sounds incredible with their exhaust mani and the EWG dumping straight to atmosphere. If you plan on pushing the tune a bit id upgrade the MAP sensor. The CorkSport 3.5 bar map sensor is plug and play which makes life really easy for installation. And if you really wanna go the next step then consider a Water/methanol kit too. I'm currently tuning mine and hoping to get to 400whp on stock block.

looks sick man! unfortunately the manifold is pretty far away in this build due to funding
. I'm interested in the ewg but really don't know to much about buying/installing one on this turbo (or any turbo lol) but god damn is it pretty

[GabbyChaves]

I here ya man, it's definitely a quality piece (not cheap haha) but well worth it down the road if you get to that. Cp-e usually have a pretty nice sale around xmas time. As for the ewg, there are plenty of good reads here on how to go about it and Pros vs cons worth searching thru at some point.

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by GabbyChaves I here ya man, it's definitely a quality piece (not cheap haha) but well worth it down the road if you get to that. Cp-e usually have a pretty nice sale around xmas time. As for the ewg, there are plenty of good reads here on how to go about it and Pros vs cons worth searching thru at some point.

thanks brotha i'll give it a good read when i get outa work tonight!

[anavrinIV]

you need a bigger map sensor, 3 bar is fine but any will need a tune.

[MD1032]

Your first priority should be to find a way to get some alcohol involved, either methanol or ethanol (via E85). These are medicinal for these engines, providing both a substantial power and reliability increase.

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Your first priority should be to find a way to get some alcohol involved, either methanol or ethanol (via E85). These are medicinal for these engines, providing both a substantial power and reliability increase.

i do plan on getting meth but i don't know how comfortable i feel installing it properly. it seems tricky. I'm good with bolt on parts but when it comes to drilling holes in my car and running hose from one end to another i get sweaty palms.

[iwabo]

Welp, i just ordered an Aem meth inj. kit and throttle body spacer. here goes nothing !

[GabbyChaves]

Nice, I have the AEM also with their fail safe flow gauge and so far it's been great.

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by GabbyChaves Nice, I have the AEM also with their fail safe flow gauge and so far it's been great.

are you injecting into the throttle body or ????

[GabbyChaves]

Yes about 4 inches before the throttle body. With a snow 375 cc/min nozzle. Playing around with mixes to see what the car likes best.

[SofaKingAwesome]

OP picked a good username!

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by GabbyChaves Yes about 4 inches before the throttle body. With a snow 375 cc/min nozzle. Playing around with mixes to see what the car likes best.

i bought a throttle body spacer from JMF so no drill/tapping would be needed

Originally Posted by SofaKingAwesome OP picked a good username!

lol thanks man seen them live 3 or 4 times, good show

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by iwabo i bought a throttle body spacer from JMF so no drill/tapping would be needed

Might want to do some reading on TB spacers when used with meth. I believe it was @dale_gribble; who found out he was getting knock when using a TB spacer, but no knock or very very minor without using it, and just spraying right into the IC pipe, before the TB.

I'll see if I can dig up the link, it's definitely on here though.

Here you go - Dale's meth injection fun - pre vs. post TB and dual vs. single nozzle

[GabbyChaves]

Interested in seeing the difference with the tb spacer as far as temps go. With my set up I see about 10-20 degrees below ambient when WOT

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by g00s3y Might want to do some reading on TB spacers when used with meth. I believe it was @dale_gribble; who found out he was getting knock when using a TB spacer, but no knock or very very minor without using it, and just spraying right into the IC pipe, before the TB. I'll see if I can dig up the link, it's definitely on here though. Here you go - Dale's meth injection fun - pre vs. post TB and dual vs. single nozzle

ill give it a read tonight when i get home, leaving for work right now.

[g00s3y]

Originally Posted by GabbyChaves Interested in seeing the difference with the tb spacer as far as temps go. With my set up I see about 10-20 degrees below ambient when WOT

Check out that link in my post above yours. BAT data is in there too.

[tek_88]

You will need a larger maf housing for 400whp.

[sheston]

My input, I would definitely get the MAP sensor and I'd also go ahead and get the 3.5 bar one. I got the 3 bar and now wish I had the 3.5

If you are staying on stock internals, the turbo should get you there. I agree with @MD1032; Alcohol is medicinal, I think a requirement for these engines. Not only for the added fuel (which is why it's good you went Meth spray) to get to 400 hp, but for the octane and cooling protection it provides.

As far as doing it yourself, it's just plumbing. Just make sure you clean up all the shavings when you are done taping. Those wouldn't be good for your engine Edit: I would do it off the engine to make sure you can clean it well

[iwabo]

Judging by the what i read i may have just wasted 90$ on the JMF throttle body spaced, I'm going to install the meth kit and have justin@freektune do his thing and see if it's a bad idea or not. Once i get the gtx2867 in i will decide where to mount the meth/inj location off of those numbers. I'm kind of salty i didn't i didn't do all my research first

[shaneski]

I've had the 2867 with meth on mine, you can get 400whp on a 2867, but the timing and boost needed isn't good for stock internals, the ring lands will give out especially on an aged engine.
3076 is a good choice torque comes in just right where you want it with a FWD without the rods flying out the block and doesn't need a shit load of boost or timing to get 400.

[BuddySpeed3]

Originally Posted by shaneski I've had the 2867 with meth on mine, you can get 400whp on a 2867, but the timing and boost needed isn't good for stock internals, the ring lands will give out especially on an aged engine. 3076 is a good choice torque comes in just right where you want it with a FWD without the rods flying out the block and doesn't need a shit load of boost or timing to get 400.

I know that MBT is different for every car but how much timing is too much for the ringlands?
I'm running 16* at 6k rpm on the k04 and am intentionally not going any further as I am approaching the lowest e85 mix timing curve posted in the e85 timing database thread started by @phate;

[mituc]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 I know that MBT is different for every car but how much timing is too much for the ringlands?

Timing or boost alone will not damage anything. The combination of the two (which can give you an idea about the cylinder pressure) may. Detonation will for sure, even the slightest if it happens too many times in a row on an already hot engine when the factory pistons crowns are already a bit more brittle than we'd like.

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by shaneski I've had the 2867 with meth on mine, you can get 400whp on a 2867, but the timing and boost needed isn't good for stock internals, the ring lands will give out especially on an aged engine. 3076 is a good choice torque comes in just right where you want it with a FWD without the rods flying out the block and doesn't need a shit load of boost or timing to get 400.

You literally just put me off of buying a 2867, i thought my mind was made up but not anymore :/. Is it still a 3"inlet on the gtx3076r? i guess i'll start doing more reading. But i am fancying the kit threw atp http://edgeautosport.com/atp-turbo-g...d-6-2006-2007/. Comes bolt on with the EWG which is seksi. Anyone else running this kit? let me know any pro's and cons would be greatly appreciated.

[sheston]

Doesn't the turbo choice depend on how you want to drive? Sure the 3076 "holds" off until just when you want it, but only if you are doing a pull. If you are cruising and shift and punch it, won't it take much longer to spool up and give you the power you are looking for, say about 4000 rpm. The 2867 would be almost instantaneous....

I would prefer to tune the turbo reaction to save the motor instead of picking a turbo that spools slow and saves the engine :-) Just my opinion

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by sheston Doesn't the turbo choice depend on how you want to drive? Sure the 3076 "holds" off until just when you want it, but only if you are doing a pull. If you are cruising and shift and punch it, won't it take much longer to spool up and give you the power you are looking for, say about 4000 rpm. The 2867 would be almost instantaneous.... I would prefer to tune the turbo reaction to save the motor instead of picking a turbo that spools slow and saves the engine :-) Just my opinion

i see what you're saying but theirs also more room down the road to get more power out of the 3076 if i choose to upgrade internals.

[shaneski]

Originally Posted by sheston Doesn't the turbo choice depend on how you want to drive? Sure the 3076 "holds" off until just when you want it, but only if you are doing a pull. If you are cruising and shift and punch it, won't it take much longer to spool up and give you the power you are looking for, say about 4000 rpm. The 2867 would be almost instantaneous.... I would prefer to tune the turbo reaction to save the motor instead of picking a turbo that spools slow and saves the engine :-) Just my opinion

The 3076 doesn't spool slow at all which i now have, even when it is spooling it shoves you in the seat from 3000rpm .the 2867 is more instant and rolls the rubber off....OP's goals are 400whp, a 2867 on meth on stock internals will be around 370 for the motor to last until a rebuild. 400whp you have to rape the engine...If you just want the 400whp for a dyno run then it will work, if you plan on beating on it and racing it, odds are it may not have a happy ending.

I can only go off experience running both turbos as a daily both on and off meth.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by BuddySpeed3 I know that MBT is different for every car but how much timing is too much for the ringlands? I'm running 16* at 6k rpm on the k04 and am intentionally not going any further as I am approaching the lowest e85 mix timing curve posted in the e85 timing database thread started by @phate;

Eh. I ran 20° at 6500 and 22.5° at 7000 on mine with the K04 at 100% WGDC on a 2:10 ITM mix...took the car to the track and hit 120+ MPH on the front straight multiple times on that tune. ECT's were climbing and brakes were fading during my 30 minute sessions (mostly due to my shitty driving)...engine's still perfectly fine. The K04 doesn't flow much air, even in full "hairdryer" mode, it's not putting nearly the load on your engine at the higher RPM's that even a 2867 could at full bore. On the stock turbo you can really just set it to 100% WGDC in most of the higher RPM's and then taper it down as needed to keep torque within what the stock rods can do in the lower RPM's, then use a dyno to dial in MBT. On your typical E30-ish mix, you're never going to see knock.

I have yet to experience a single GT/GTX30 turbo that could push me back in my seat at 3000 RPM's. My BNR makes 20 psi at 3000 RPM's but it's definitely not pushing anyone back in their seat until a few hundred RPM's later. Make no mistake, the larger you go, you're going to get more lag. And if you autocross your car at all, you're going to hate it.

I like the idea of the 2867 and 3067/3076 more than I like the price. At the end of the day you can pay <$1200 for a BNR that can do the same shit. That's the route I chose. There's a reason they're popular.

[sheston]

I've got a K04 that hits 31+ psi at 3000 rpm and pushes me back in my seat. I also get 400 whp at some point. Of course I've got a built engine. I was just trying to point out that various people like different feels in a car. I don't think I would like a 3076 with all the cats, and restrictions. I might if I built it like my current car.

[iwabo]

From all my readings over the passed few weeks i'm seeing more and more people saying with a stock motor it isn't wise to slap a larger turbo onto my car. The car is my DD and an engine build is ultimately out of the question. As sad as it makes me i think i will be stuck with the k04. I have the AEM meth kit and JMF Throttle Body Spacer w/ Meth Bungs otw hopefully with those mods i will be happy with the power.

[zenit]

Originally Posted by iwabo From all my readings over the passed few weeks i'm seeing more and more people saying with a stock motor it isn't wise to slap a larger turbo onto my car. The car is my DD and an engine build is ultimately out of the question. As sad as it makes me i think i will be stuck with the k04. I have the AEM meth kit and JMF Throttle Body Spacer w/ Meth Bungs otw hopefully with those mods i will be happy with the power.

Didn't you already order the turbo?

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by zenit Didn't you already order the turbo?

cancelled the 2867 for the 3076r ewg. im about to put the breaks on that

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by iwabo cancelled the 2867 for the 3076r ewg. im about to put the breaks on that

Well, time to change the title :p

sent from my Nexus 6P

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow Well, time to change the title :p sent from my Nexus 6P

agreed sorry

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow Well, time to change the title :p sent from my Nexus 6P

how does i change title?

[MS3Shadow]

I got you, bruh.. I changed it.

[iwabo]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow I got you, bruh.. I changed it.

good looks

[mituc]

For a DD the 3076 may be a bit too laggy. I have the GTX3071 and I feel it's at the limit of usability in therms of response at low RPM (which is required for a DD).

[iwabo]

All i really want to know is if it's actually a reasonable idea to buy a BT for a stock block, or am i just better off sticking with k04+meth?