Papasmurf Round #2

[PapaSmurf]

Some of you may know, some of you may not know but I recently removed my engine yet again.

It started with noticing excessive blow by, so I checked compression, all cylinders were 150 besides cylinder #3 which was 130, keep in mind, 160 is normal at my altitude.

I was also getting an excess amount of blow by, im talking about filling up one of my catch cans in one pull, so I decided to remove the engine and inspect. I also decided to go bigger and better for next season at the same time. see bottom of post for the new set up.

At the moment the engine is on the engine stand with the head removed, I still need to tear down the bottom end to inspect my pistons. As of right now I have come to the conclusion my head was def lifting, not much but it was lifting. The valves looked fine.

Cylinders two and three have slight combustion gas residue under the gasket on the block and head side and there was trace of coolant on the head gasket. I will take detailed pictures when I have time and upload them.

I still need to figure out what was causing my blow by issue, I am not sure if head lifting causes blow by or not. My guess is going to be ringlands and or rings being damaged. Seeing how much I beat on my car with no type of oil cooling besides stock, I would be willing to guess something is fried or warped on my pistons. Again, detail pictures and findings will be posted when I tear down the block some more.


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As far as my new build. I will keep as much as I can with the current build in the block, but my guess I will just be able.

I will most likely buying new pistons, still unsure which ones but it will most likely be SP pistons.

Now on to the head, I will be scraping my current head and I recently purchased a fully built/ported head from @doubleflusher; it was originally posted by @aviator79;, I have the spec sheet on my desktop at home that i will eventually attach, the head has since had SP port work. Here are some details.

•1mm oversized valves
•Ferrea Custom Valve train
•CompPlus intake and exhaust valves
•Turbo spring valve
•Titanium retainers
•Spring seat locator
•Billet Valve locks
•Custom Manganese/Bronze valve guides
•Intake and exhaust valve stem seals for custom guides
•CnC porting done to the intake and exhaust side, as well as a fair about of bowl blending and a performance valve job.

The head is complete besides buckets and cams, I am pretty set on staying with stock cams and just have them keyed. Along with keying the crank.


http://i.imgur.com/I4ueAv4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ll6KVEA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/VPrgDVW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T86eGIk.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IyxBnZC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YJsFOd2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cSbYTyi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/23OIgkQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/N1rUedN.jpg

I will also be going with a bigger turbo. I have decided on:

PTE CEA 6466 Vband Flange, .82 A/R
CPe Exhuast Manifold PTE Vband Flange
44mm EWG
SP H11 Head studs

Target is 40-45psi.

and before anyone asks what about fuel, I am running a full SP PI kit. So go fuck yourself

[CWP_MS3]

First! Heh, suck it bitches...


Good luck son!

[PapaSmurf]

Block with head gasket still on it, you can notice coolant on the gasket along with some combustion gas on cylinders 2 and 3.



Close up of water on head gasket, this was pretty much the whole head gasket.



Cylinders 3 and 4, notice combustion gas around the top side of cylinder 3( top side meaning top of picture)



Cylinders 1 and 2, again notice the combustion has around cylinder 2, top side of picture again,




This is the block sides of cylinder 2 and 3, combustion gas not as bad, but it's there.


Sent from your girlfriends tapabedroom

[PapaSmurf]

Also forgot to mention, coolant was cloudy with carbon specs in it.


Sent from your girlfriends tapabedroom

[Koke382]

Zaaaaaamn son. One beast of a build coming

sent from my peepee

[atvfreek]

Curious to see what you find with tear down. Hopefully it's just worn rings and not melted ring lands.

[Celestspeed3]

I would just run (and I did) the Supertech valvetrain, it will probably be a lot cheaper then going custom and it's already proven to work. Since you are staying with the stock cams I wouldn't bother upgrading the valve springs or any of that. The stock cams run out of steam and the redline shouldn't be raised to more then 7500rpm anyway which makes no sense on the stock cams.

Edit: never mind the head already has all that done, I need to learn to read slower.

[Matrix311]

awesome!

[rtabagaboy]

Papasmurf when you built your engine the first time what type of engine break in did you do?

[speed3sailor]

good luck man. im looking forward to new race videos! blu pu dominating EVERYONE!

[ABolewski]

Hell yea, sounds like a legit build. Going to put down some serious numbers.

[4G63]

This is a serious question and not to poke fun, why are these blocks so unreliable even when built? Just seems like I see more REBUILDS after someone has gone full bore on a build. Unlike other cars that when built take multiple seasons and tons of track passes and then it's just replacing rings, maybe rod bolts/head studs kinda thing

Build looks good man that 6466 is beast

[Voltron]

Good luck with the new monster build Rob. Between you and Bryce, you guys are taking Pu's to the next next level!

[spd6demon]

Badass build, looking forward to seeing the numbers your pu makes. 45 psi will be insane

[timjs]

Sorry if I missed it or should know.. but what kind of head fasteners did you use last round?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by Celestspeed3 I would just run (and I did) the Supertech valvetrain, it will probably be a lot cheaper then going custom and it's already proven to work. Since you are staying with the stock cams I wouldn't bother upgrading the valve springs or any of that. The stock cams run out of steam and the redline shouldn't be raised to more then 7500rpm anyway which makes no sense on the stock cams. Edit: never mind the head already has all that done, I need to learn to read slower.

I have to do some more research on cams, but i might get a custom grind considering how awesome this head is. i think it might be a waste to use stock cams. I am honestly looking for 650-700 uncorrected at my altitude.

Originally Posted by rtabagaboy Papasmurf when you built your engine the first time what type of engine break in did you do?

Used unconventional penzoil oil, always was changing rpms, never let the car sit at the same rpm even if it was at idle i would slowly rev up and down.

100 mile oil change
500 mile oil change
850 mile oil change

checked compression and it was 160's across all cylinders.

Boosted

Originally Posted by 4G63 This is a serious question and not to poke fun, why are these blocks so unreliable even when built? Just seems like I see more REBUILDS after someone has gone full bore on a build. Unlike other cars that when built take multiple seasons and tons of track passes and then it's just replacing rings, maybe rod bolts/head studs kinda thing Build looks good man that 6466 is beast

well most built engines that have failed have all been because of the ARP 2000 headstuds, which are only rated to 400-450wtq, they arent even specfically made for our car. They are made for an N/A 3. now that we have a way better option with headstuds I think you will see less issues.

Now my blow by issue im still unsure of, but if it is a ringland/ring problem then I would totally put fault on myself for not running an oil cooler. We put these engines through some serious heat along with the oil and yet hardly anyone runs an aftermarket oil cooler. @djuosnteisn; noticed oil temps sky rocket before installing his oil cooler. I think not having an oil cooler had a direct influence on my blow by.


My blow by could have also been effected from the head lifting and combustion gas getting into the oil ports? Not sure if blow by is something that can happen with head lifting? Anyone chime in on that?

Originally Posted by timjs Sorry if I missed it or should know.. but what kind of head fasteners did you use last round?

Standard ARP 2000's

[rtabagaboy]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf Used unconventional penzoil oil, always was changing rpms, never let the car sit at the same rpm even if it was at idle i would slowly rev up and down. 100 mile oil change 500 mile oil change 850 mile oil change checked compression and it was 160's across all cylinders. Boosted

So In that order? Did you check compression and start boosting after the 850 miles or before that @ like 100miles. Varying the RPMs, yes, but did you load it up much in the first 100-500-850 miles or just after.

Good luck on the new build!

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by rtabagaboy So In that order? Did you check compression and start boosting after the 850 miles or before that @ like 100miles. Varying the RPMs, yes, but did you load it up much in the first 100-500-850 miles or just after. Good luck on the new build!

In that order, I did not boost at all until after the compression check and I had synthetic oil in it.


Sent from your girlfriends tapabedroom

[ms3blackmica]

Best of luck Rob.

Looking forward to seeing a monster!

[PapaSmurf]

Ok I am really interested with sleeving my block since its already bored out .020 over.

My question is, has anyone on here done it? If so what was your experience with?

What are the options besides:

ERL
Darton

One of the local guys I know is a benson dealer so he can get me a decent price on getting the block sleeved by them, the only thing is I dont think they have ever sleeved an MZR.

Dan Benson Racing - Aftermarket Performance Sleeve Installation

[jdmage_mx5]

@btstarcher; is sleeved maybe he can chime in.

[Matrix311]

LA SLEEVE?

[Realgib3]

I'll chime in on the blow-by issues.

It is most likely directly related to your head lifting. Your compression numbers are most likely related to the same thing. That's exactly the symptoms (along with other symptoms) that I saw every time I've lifted a head.

On another note... I'm fucking pumped to see someone else run this turbo and can't wait to see what you and Dustin can do with this thing.

[PapaSmurf]

So the local guy I talked to who owns CamTuning, mainly subaru based can get me a pretty good price on Sleeves and to Oring the block.

I think the total is around $1400 and that includes return shipping.

They are dry sleeves.

Keep in mind Cam runs the same sleeves on his sti swapped wagon and pushes 800whp.

I guess benson was the first to have hondas running 50+psi too.

[SpeedLife]

Subbed ! Good Luck Rob this will be a record breaker !!! ( Even tho it already was ) lol

[atvfreek]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf So the local guy I talked to who owns CamTuning, mainly subaru based can get me a pretty good price on Sleeves and to Oring the block. I think the total is around $1400 and that includes return shipping. They are dry sleeves. Keep in mind Cam runs the same sleeves on his sti swapped wagon and pushes 800whp. I guess benson was the first to have hondas running 50+psi too.

I was talking to another member a few months ago about sleeving, and I honestly think that will be the future of high HP builds. My machinist says it's no problem to do them and has done them in a couple duratec engines.

That is a very reasonable price quote that you got too.

[btstarcher]

My block was sleeved last time, machinist had a hard time finding sleeves but eventually found some straight ones that fit. Not sure the dimensionsbut I'm .020" over, and the sleeves were very cheap, something like $50 each. I think the total rebuild cost was a hair under $1k.

[PapaSmurf]

Mega/Supa head came in today.

thanks @doubleflusher;

Here is a quick difference between stock and ported

[2012FailWheelDrive]

Originally Posted by PapaSmurf Here is a quick difference between stock and ported

[Lex]

That bad boy will flow! What's been done to the exhaust side?

[PapaSmurf]

Originally Posted by Lex That bad boy will flow! What's been done to the exhaust side?

Im pretty sure this is the original SP "supa" head.

It has Intake/bowl/Exhaust side porting. The exhaust side doesn't look as noticeable as the intake side.

[msantana101]

Posted up to see a monster.


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[Matrix311]

Wow

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[Roddiy]

Damn this build is gonna be insane. Good luck, first of all.



and make sure you come down to sea level and put down 1000whp when you get this thing done

[btstarcher]

Oh I want one!

[Voltron]

That head is insane. That is the original supa head. I really wanted it but monies issues said not this time lol.

Im pumped to see your numbers.

[Easter Bunny]

Originally Posted by Voltron Locos That head is insane. That is the original supa head. I really wanted it but monies issues said not this time lol. Im pumped to see your numbers.

I wish you were getting a ported head.

[GARRETHEXTREME]

Man! This is sick build to come! Your built engine is already a beast, and now this?

Our next nator nm meet, I have to check up your car when it's finished!

[PapaSmurf]

well I finally stopped being lazy and broke the block down.

My findings.

Spun rod bearing - cylinder 3

Cracked ring - cylinder 3

Warped ringland - cylinder 3

Bad scratching on the top sides of all pistons (Above rings)

Scratching on all Cylinder walls

All oil squirters were getting slightly hitting my pistons, not much but the tips of the oil squirters had some metal shaved off.


see attached pictures.

Now as far as the scratching on the pistons, has anyone seen this before and what could be the cause or is the cause? Ive never seen it, but then again this is my first motor I have ever built.

Maybe because the pistons where hitting the squirters it caused the scratching?

[Easter Bunny]

Tough to tell on my phone but it looks like it could be detonation