Because Build Threads Are A Thing
 

So far, mostly stock as I've just recently started my build. I don't have a lot of cash flow right now, so mods are few and far between. The pace should pick up some when my divorce is final. Ha.

Mods so far in the order of purchase:
CS LED fog lights
CS LED light kit
JBR boost tubes and recirc hose (black)
JBR EGR block off & valve - not installed yet
CS RMM - ordered a month ago and should have it soon.
- cancelled CS mount. Ordered DM RMM
CS MZR bypass valve
JBR PMM 70 duro - coming back off. Might try AWR 70 for less vibes
Is Versatuner a mod? Sure, why not.

Planned mods: in somewhat of an order
Possibly AWR TMM if I try and like the PMM
HPFP - Autotech probably
Injector seals when I swap in a clean set of injectors
Intake TIG and TB coolant bypass or TB TIG
OCC kit of some kind
Diff mount & RSB
JBR Tru-3.0 Wide Path silicone intake. Maybe 3.5 - kinda depends on if my end goal changes
L2A intercooler
EBCS if needed
Possibly CS turbo upgrade
WMI if my end goal changes
Better clutch if the OE takes a crap
Still up in the air if I want to do exhaust or not.
Possibly catted DP
4 piston calipers or larger (really just for looks) w/ braided lines
Slotted rotors maybe
SPC ball joints
Maybe a set of coilovers w/ adjustable dampers if one day I decide to hit the track.

I may have missed a few things but you get the gist.

Short log of what I consider to be high BAT's for a 77 degree day.

Continuation of the other thread, I stand corrected about 140+ BATs. That log was when I didn't have the OE TMIC shroud. Locating a shroud and getting it on dropped the BATs by about 10 degrees by end of log.

Your list is an almost perfectly upside down "go fast" shopping list.

I've seen that shroud difference, too. Couldn't believe it, but data don't lie.

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I don't want to go fast first. I want to set the foundation to go fast.
This is my DD, so I can't afford to turn the power up then break something that is known to be weak. So I'm replacing the weak links first.

Just going forward, there are more things i personally like to see in a log for tuning purposes, and im sure that goes for the professionals out there as well.

Try including:

Time
Accel pedal position
AFR / lambda
boost
boost air temp
load
coolant temp
HPFP pressure (actual, not desired)
injector duty cycle
intake temp (ambient)
VVT advance
knock
Short term and long term fuel trims
MAF voltage
G/s MAF airflow
RPM
Spark advance
Vehicle speed
Wastegate duty cycle.

This will just help give a more complete idea of what is going on in the car.

For example, when i pulled my copy of speed6 ATR and reference the BAT vs ECT table we can see that at 130+ BAT it will be trying to pull timing depending on what your ECTs are, but since coolant temp is not in that log we dont know if that was the case or not.

There are a lot of smart people on this forum, so when posting logs you want to try to give them as much information as possible. Props for actually doing a log though haha, that's usually a tough first step to get some folks to do.

I have several logs that include almost all of that data but not all in the same log. With only 50 PID/s, I was wanting to limit it to 10 items for good resolution. The nearly 20 items you list would result in data points about 0.4s apart.
If I recall correctly:
MS6 has 50 pid/s
Genjuan has 100
Genpu has 200

I always log rail pressure if I make a change that would increase fuel requirements.
I haven't logged inj DC because I'm too close to stock to worry about it.
I don't log APP anymore because it's always 100%
I don't log fuel trims anymore because I'm all stock.
I don't log vehicle speed because I'm always in 4th gear.
I didn't think to log ECT, I'll try that out.
I stopped logging WGDC because my boost is pretty steady. Tapering, but following the tables.

Don't read that wrong. I'm not refusing to log what you ask for, I'm just saying I would prefer to only log what is required for a specific diagnosis so resolution is as high as possible.

I hear ya. Really sucks when those stock fog lights crap out because you're going too fast.

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Touche'
I couldn't stand having yellowish fog lights with white HIDs. Unfortunately I didn't anticipate that the fogs would be blue. So they still don't match.

So you're taking the engine out and replacing the rods?

Currently, I don't plan on going past 350whp as a DD.

However, once I acquire a spare vehicle, I have plans to start building a spare motor in the garage I don't yet have.

I can't tell if you can't read, if you read too much, or you have selective comprehension. That seems to be going around.

If you have any intention of going "fast" in an MS6 you NEED internals, rear diff mount (the wide one towards the rear), RMM, and a tune(r) first. That makes you ready for 350whp by whatever means you choose to get there.

At that power level, stop screwing around with various side mounts (then commenting on reduced cash flow). Just put a spare stock PMM on the shelf, and enjoy the lack of vibes.

Word on the street is DM is making a FMM

I use the term "fast" in a relative sense.
Initially, I'll be getting a new PMM from rock auto to hold me over for a while.
I already mentioned my intent to upgrade the diff mount. Although I failed to specify the "wide one towards the rear" because I thought it was obvious.
I already ordered a RMM a month ago from CS but they were out of stock and were just starting their next production run. So I've patiently been waiting.
By NEEDING internals, I'm assuming you're referencing HPFP. Yes. That has also already been laid out in my plans listed above. Also, I thought I made it plainly obvious that I won't be making power mods until I have internals installed by way of putting it at the top of list.

There seems to be a disconnect on most car forums as to what constitutes a "build" and "build thread".

Installing HID fog lights and silicone plumbing isnt 'building' anything. Replacing engine internals, swapping to a larger turbo, etc. is a 'build'.

What your doing is modding you car, which is great and a lot of fun, but calling it a build is inaccurate.

/grumpy rant.

We could argue all day about semantics. For the purposes of this discussion, swapping out rubber boost tube for silicone is no different than swapping connecting rods. They are both mods. The only difference is the cost and level of difficulty. It seems you have fallen victim to the disconnect. I am building something. Just because I'm in the very early stages doesn't exclude me from that category.
This sub forum is called Build Diaries, a bit feminine but w/e. No diary starts off with "look what I made over the last 2 years." It starts at the beginning. Where I am. With piddly little shit like lights that annoyed me, a TMIC shroud that was missing, an OE shift knob that was tore up, a rearview mirror that was fucked up, etc etc. I'm not one to drive around in a hacked up POS. I've spent more money fixing broken shit than I have "mods". Right up until I bought Versatune, which turned that argument upside down.

"Replacing engine internals, swapping to a larger turbo, etc. is" modding. Get over yourself.

In for future boost leak caused by failed JBR boost tubes.

What kind of discussion are you having????


The parts I told you that you NEED were an effort to save you time, and money since you mentioned you're hurting for cash flow. Skip the side mounts, and the other shit that is "performance oriented", because you don't need it. All that other stuff is unnecessary until you decide what path you're taking for power, which you haven't, yet.

I absolutely understand having nice things in the car. I have 2-3 times as much audio and 'nice' things in my daily MS6 as I do performance. That doesn't change that you're doing some things stupid. This section also gives no shits about your mirror or leds.

Apparently discussing the disconnect on what constitutes a build vs modding when they are synonyms in this context.

Almost everyone has a limit to their cashflow. Mine being somewhat small by comparison to what I've assumed others have in various threads here. I'm not necessarily hurting for cash like a college student. I have money I could spend, but I'm hoarding most of it until I get that final bill from my lawyer when my divorce is over.

I'm not set in my ways. I'm open to suggestions. The items you said I need, I agree with you! They are either already on order or at the top of my to-do list. I listed internals and diff mount before a simple intake for Christ's sake. I'm not trying to make 350whp tomorrow. As the sub-title says, Canadian molasses slow style. 1 step at a time as funds become available. And each step doesn't necessarily have to be HP related. I don't have a shop. My driveway is broken up asphalt, gravel, and a strangely placed small but smooth patch if concrete that I utilize as much as possible.
I listed RSB along with the diff mount, because why not? I don't want to pull that shit out twice. I want to put in a set of clean injectors, so while I'm in there..new injector seals and a TIG. Do I NEED a RSB or TIG? Fuck no, but I'll be dammed if I don't go ahead and do those things while it's already apart. That is saving time.
A good amount of my wishlist doesn't specify a vendor. I'm open to suggestions on what to avoid. I'm certainly open to suggestions on proven components. I apparently didn't read or ask enough regarding JBR mounts. I saw many many posts saying the vibes weren't that bad and it gets better after break-in, yadda yadda. So I buy it. Then I post that it's too harsh and everyone's like, "ya, JBR is the worst." WTF? Where we're you guys when I was researching what mount to get? Getting the right part first saves money. Skipping aftermarket engine mounts other than the RMM, saves money. Thank you. Getting internals before an oil catch can, for example, DOESN'T save money. Those upgrades are unrelated and I will be having both in the end anyways. Suggesting internals before a turbo upgrade, THAT will save money.

Flame away.

They arent semantics though. Poke through the 'build diaries' section. Its all about engine internals, bit turbo setups, complete engine overhauls, etc. Not fog lights, boost tubes, and the like.

Like I said, there is noting wrong with modding a car, but calling it a build to a bunch of 'real enthusiast' shows you're wet behind the ears.

125k miles on a MS6, before you even do anything else, you should be checking compression.

This on a 6 with 125k.... It is like someone betting blind man to pee in a cup on the floor. You know whats going to happen. A big mess that every one watching was waiting for.

You have little time. Once i hit 300hp 350tq i knew i wanted more but also knew what would happen of i did. It took me over a year and a few thousand bucks but i have my block waiting for me. Only then have i started to buy go fast shit. Learn from others mistakes. A hole in the block makes it unsellable and unbuildable so that slaps 500 to 1000$ on your build you werent expecting.

You will either blow up your daily and cry while selling everything and buy a Genesis. Or you will build the motor with the parts you were going to spend on all that crap above.

Stock mazdaspeeds average 100k to 150k miles. As soon as you modd them the sooner you need to build. :wizard:
Inbeforeihave200kmilesandididntblowresponses. :dance:

180, 180, 180, 185

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that you were the honorary build thread police with rules based entirely on personal preference influenced by what you 'typically' see around the board.

The insignicant items, that I listed once but everyone keeps harping about, are insignificant enough that I didn't feel a need to put them in my sig. Unlike you. For some reason you think AWR endlinks are important enough you want everyone to know anywhere you post. Who the fuck cares. I listed every non-stock item for full disclosure of what I've done. I didn't list it to spark meaningless arguments about how important you think it is...or isn't.

Again, I'm not looking to make that kind of power any time soon. Certainly not with the K04. The turbo upgrade is listed almost dead last. It could be 2 years, maybe longer, before I take that step. Until then, I'm fairly limited to 280-300whp. At some point before I'm ready for that step, I should have...at the very least...started building the back-up motor.

How would you know anything about boost leaks? Oh, wait... There's a reason I've got your stock boost tube.

crapatalk, yes it sucks for free.

@WetzMS3; I prefer this sort of fight.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...26018372a5.jpg

crapatalk, yes it sucks for free.

If you want niceness, I also highly recommend the TRS HID projector retrofit kit. That's a must, in my opinion.

That's as nice as I get. I'm outtie.

Very nice. Thank you sir. All good points.

My OE recirc tube had a crack in it, which is understandable considering it was probably the original 10 year old piece. If it weren't for that, I'd still have that OE tube and boost tubes.

I still have the OE BPV. If the CS version gives me fits, I'll swap it back over.

I already ordered the OE PMM from Rock Auto. Fingers crossed it fits.

I read a little blurb in another thread that my injectors are probably all caked up with gunk with this many miles. So I figured there wouldn't be any harm installing a set of cleaned ones. Although now that I think about it, LTFT's weren't off by more than 5% I think. Eh, worst case, I'll have a set of clean injectors/seals on stand-by.

Right now as a daily driver, the suspension is stiff enough for the roads around here. The calipers/rotors/coilovers are really only if I decide to track my car one day. I grew up in racing, so it's probably inevitable the 6 will see some turns.

Really like that HID kit too. I will certainly consider that if/when the stock HIDs go out. I can see quite well at night right now.

I AM into the car remaining "nice". No gauge pods. No color changing interior accent lighting. No loud exhaust.

Latest log from this evening. Added several parameters per the above suggestions. Versatuner will only allow me to log 16 parameters at a time right now. Not sure if there is a setting to allow more. Also, I overlaid 2 prior runs over tonight's run in VD for shits and giggles. Same stretch of road. Looks pretty dead on consistent.

Due to unforseen delays shipping the CS RMM, I cancelled the order and should be receiving a DM RMM shortly.

Never thought I'd be so excited to receive an OEM part. PMM going in tomorrow.

Upon visual inspection, the Rock Auto mount appears exact to OEM with exception of the bolt. I'll reuse the original bolt.

Picture upload issues.

All the more reason to strengthen my hatred for Apple products. Not being able to rename images on a device from a supposedly superior company is mind boggling.

JBR PMM out, OEM in.
OEM RMM out, DM in.

Noise is much better. Still plenty of vibes, but it's a different type of vibration due to the different location. Idle is smooth and quiet. Cruising is smooth and quiet. Accel and decel is what transfers the vibes now. The JBR PMM would vibrate worse and with more noise as the revs increased. All in all, it's better than before.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yqyLS6xyEog

This past weekend, replaced the TMM with OEM, deleted the EGR valve, and blocked off the EGR tube.

More importantly, had a present on my front porch this evening.

And lastly, the gift within the package. Ah the little things. Thanks @CorkSport; for the laugh, and touche. Backstory, because I was ordering the internals, I put "Got gas?" in the comments section on the order page.

Nearly a month after getting them...intrenals going in today.

Done and done. Easy peasy. Had to buy a vise though, but no biggie. Car's been idling for about 30min now. Holding steady at 430psi. After about 5 minutes of idle, a blip of the go pedal bumped it to 1649. So it looks like all is good.

The clickety clack of the CS internals are BARELY louder than stock. Almost negligible.

About 30 miles in, I gave it some low RPM WOT and it barely broke into the 1800's. I'll put more miles on it tomorrow and then get a log to make sure everything is kosher.

If there are any out there still wondering if it's true, minimal removal of parts was needed.
1: Pull CIRCUIT fuse. Run engine until it stalls out. (Still had pressure in the hard line, but w/e. Prob because there was a decent amount of time between running it and loosening the hard line, IDK)
2: TMIC shroud off.
3: Unclip PCV line from intake pipe and rotate up and back to rest on the firewall.
4: Unclip brake booster line I think and pull it over out of the way.
5: Start removing fuel lines, electrical connector and the 3 bolts. Skipped the hassle of trying to zip tie the hard line. Just shove a rag down there.
6: Remove pump. This proved to be the hardest part. Took quite a bit of tugging, wiggling, and prying to get it out. (insert standard instructions for swapping internals here) Going back in was easier, but still took some wiggling and playing with it. I was fortunate that the engine stopped where the pump wasn't on a lobe. It was nearly fully seated without pushing on it. Light pressure allowed me to seat it and thread the crews in all the way by hand. A little more turning with a clicker and done. Took all of 2 minutes to attach the hard line, 2 soft lines, electrics, brake booster, PCV, TMIC shroud, and reinstall the fuse. Wash up.

Cycled the key a few times to prime the fuel. Then, with gas to the floor, cranked for about 10 seconds. Let sit for about 10 seconds. Repeat with gas to the floor. After 5 seconds, while still cranking, foot off the gas completely to let it start. Checked for leaks. All looks good. Had it idle for quite a long while (long enough for my BAT sensor to soak all the way to 195). Went for an easy 20 min drive which included about 10 miles of 3k rpm on I-77. After all, it was dinner time and since my buddy let me use his shop, he was due a free meal (I reserve pickle tickles for MSF VIP members only) and I needed the opportunity to put some miles on these internals.

I've had a CS midpipe sitting around for a short while. Time to put it in. Grabbed a pair of "before" 3rd gear logs. 1 with current tune, 1 with WGDC @ zero (but the WGDC max increase is still set to 20%).

Will post comparisons later today.

Took slightly under an hour. More work to do as I didn't have the appropriate gasket for the back side. Snugged it up and drove to Advance. I traced the flange before installing, so I handed the guy my trace and he went to the back. Came back with a gasket that is remarkably similar to the CS flange diameter. Will only have to redo the holes and I'm set.

Once installed....it was clear this gasket wasn't going to work. The stock flange wasn't designed to do any sealing, so it's not even close to being flat enough to seal with a thin gasket. I'll have to give Corksport a call on Monday to see if they can ship me the gasket they include with a new pipe.

Until then, it's time for some data:
Don't look at the actual numbers. I just found a repeatable location. Road was not flat.
Compared the two 0% WGDC logs from before & after. The issues are: it was 32 degrees this morning with a 1/2 tank. The "after" log, it was 44 degrees with about a 1/3 tank. Same stretch of road...hit the gas as soon as I passed a street sign. Applied SAE correction for temperature. Sorry the starting RPM isn't exactly the same either. Even with all that, there was a measurable HP difference. Strangely though, the CS graph started at an earlier RPM but the boost appears to come on slower.

Got my WGDC dialed in now, but there was a patrol car stationed where I was getting logs. So I'll wait until later when the temperature is back down into the low 30's...and hopefully the five-o is somewhere else.

And the verdict is....blah

Installed JBR Tru-3.5 Silicone intake today. Zero'd out WGDC before trying to MAF cal.

First off, what a tight freaking fit. Hindsight says I should have gone with the metal intake. Several places with contact that will most certainly result in problems. I'm fortunate I had a 51r battery laying around. NO WAY the stock size battery would fit. I even had to trim quite a bit from the battery tray to clear the intake.

Second, man does that tiny K04 make some noise now! BPV makes plenty of noise too. Not sure why anyone would want to go atmosphere BOV.

Third, once the MAF cal was done (less than 1% LTFTs and WOT AFRs within .005 lambda...a little on the rich side), I figured it was time to allow the ECU to put some WGDC back in it. Quickly found that I'm reaching load targets (1.864 @ 3500) at 14psi when it used to take 18psi. With the intake, it was tapering off to 13psi by redline, so I did a few more runs trying to get it to hold 14psi all the way up.

Not sure if I want to let this tune ride for a bit or maybe get back to stock boost levels. I have some maintenance things to take care of before I really start to push it. Not sure if I want to mess with installing the CS downpipe. It's been collecting dust, but this K04 spools so fast now, I'm having to pull throttle at low end to keep from overshooting load targets. Granted, my load targets from 2250 to 3000 are less than stock tune values.