Itty bitty build

[SaltyPiff]

Am new to the forums, have been lurking around awhile and have been putting a build list together. Not sure what turbo i'll be going with, but my end goal is around 500 to the wheels reliably without sleeving the block. Any different recommendations than what I already have? Plan to have the head ported, and am planning a BSD as well.

Engine build: (Revision 2)
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Pistons:
https://edgeautosport.com/manley-pla...d-6-2006-2007/

Rods:
https://edgeautosport.com/carrillo-h...d-6-2006-2007/

Main Bearings:
https://edgeautosport.com/king-beari...ion-2-0t-2013/

Rod Bearings:
https://edgeautosport.com/king-engin...ion-2-0t-2013/
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Head:
https://edgeautosport.com/supertech-...d-6-2006-2007/

Cams:
https://corksport.com/mazdaspeed-3-camshafts.html

Intake Valves:
https://edgeautosport.com/supertech-...d-6-2006-2007/

Exhaust Valves:
https://edgeautosport.com/supertech-...d-6-2006-2007/

Gasket:
https://edgeautosport.com/cometic-he...d-6-2006-2007/

Rebuild Kit:
https://edgeautosport.com/stage-3-mz...d-6-2006-2007/

Head Studs:
https://edgeautosport.com/arp-l19-he...-st-2013-2017/

Main Studs:
https://edgeautosport.com/arp-main-s...d-6-2006-2007/

Injector Seals:
https://corksport.com/mazdaspeed-3-f...tor-seals.html

Would love feedback

[Solarsurge]

First thing's first. First post should be an introduction thread, not a build thread. Second, you make no mention of what mods you already have, and you're gonna need MANY of them before you can even even think about built engines. HPFP, Intake, Exhaust, a way to tune it, motor mounts, upgraded intercooler, boost controller, 3/3.5 bar MAP sensor, etc. Now that's been said, assuming you have the REQUIRED supporting mods, here's a few thoughts:

You should check out Speed Perf6rmanc3 site for the rods and pistons. They generally have the best of everything available and their prices are good. I'm not a brand whore, but $1100 is ridiculous for ANY rods. Manley H-Tuff Rods are fine and half the price, H-Tuff Plus with CA 625+ bolts are even better and still almost half the price. Those head studs are risky, L19 or CA 625+ studs (if you can find them). If you run high boost, the ARP head studs have failed on a few speeds. Main studs are fine. Cams not necessary for 500, but you could always take the savings on the rods and roll them into Piper cams if you're set on it.

As for the rebuild kit, go to Tascaparts.com and you can literally replace every OEM internal engine component (gaskets, oil pump, water pump, VVT actuator, chains, tensioners, o-rings, bolts and washers, etc) with Genuine Mazda OEM parts for literally about the same price. While I applaud Edge's idea of the rebuild kit, you literally lose ALL "savings" there is because the head gasket is rolled into the price and you're getting the Cometic.


For the Turbo (and Turbo Manifold), right now BNR S5 is the cheapest 500HP turbo option, but a PTE 5858 is probably the most "tested and proven" option for those goals.

What you're missing from your list for 500:
1. Aux Fuel is necessary for 500. You can expect to pay $1000 for 6 port, $2000 for full port injection, not including a manifold that supports it (JMF v2, DM FoST Mani, etc.)\
2. Clutch - 500HP will require an upgraded clutch.
3. LOTS and LOTs and LOTs of shit you probably didn't even think of...like break in oil, coolant, transmission fluid, engine tools, assembly lubes, grease, machine shop fees, shop towels by the case, denatured alcohol by the gallon (to clean aluminum), about a case of Brakleen (to clean the steel), and much much more.

All exaggerations aside, you are looking at easily $6,000-8,000 just for the engine build, and totals that can easily top $20k. You sure you're ready for all that?

[SaltyPiff]

Actually to be honest everything else was already accounted for, only things that need to be determined are a few things but I can order on the fly in minutes no issue.. I was under the impression the cams were for more airflow through the head and to rev higher if im not mistaken? Everythings already pulled and disassembled just waiting for machining and to build it.

So pretty much, the only changes in my list would be the rods and those L19 head studs?

[Solarsurge]

Cams are for different purposes. There are custom cams that allow longer lift for more air flow for higher HP and there are custom cams that are ground to close the valves quicker so they don't float and crash into the pistons at higher RPMs. Upgraded valve springs alone will make 7500 RPM just fine on the stock cams. There's no need to upgrade anything else in the head unless you're looking for 700+ HP.

Also, bear in mind, higher RPM = exponentially higher stress on your engine internals...balancing the rotating assembly is 100% required...and it also increases heat drastically. You can't have reliability while simultaneously stressing the components harder than they were designed for. 7500 RPM is plenty high. Any more than that is just asking for a meltdown.

[shaneski]

Use the OEM head gasket and valves. There is 10second 1/4 mile Mazdas with around 800whp that have pretty much run stock head other than porting and dual valve springs for high RPMs...Freeks 9 second car uses OEM head gasket and OEM valves.

[SaltyPiff]

I see. Been getting much of my guidance from someone familiar on a different platform. Would recommend OEM headgasket and valves? I'm looking for higher redline, but not looking for the super costly shit that will only get you very slight improvement. So if that would hit my target i'm perfectly fine with that. I tried doing as much research as I could before posting, not trying to be one of those "I want a car at this power range build me a list"

[Fstrnyou]

I'm running the H-Tuff rods with standard ARP2000 and I believe they are rated for 700ish HP. I couldn't justify the added cost to go CA625+ bolts (aka: H-Tuff Plus). While they advertise a higher HP rating with these bolts, I think it's more to do with RPM. The only time the rod bolts are under strain is at TDC after compression / exhaust stroke.

As mentioned in a different discussion, there are upgraded wrist pins too. They have a beefier wall thickness to support more BOOM and RPM.

[SaltyPiff]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou I'm running the H-Tuff rods with standard ARP2000 and I believe they are rated for 700ish HP. I couldn't justify the added cost to go CA625+ bolts (aka: H-Tuff Plus). While they advertise a higher HP rating with these bolts, I think it's more to do with RPM. The only time the rod bolts are under strain is at TDC after compression / exhaust stroke. As mentioned in a different discussion, there are upgraded wrist pins too. They have a beefier wall thickness to support more BOOM and RPM.

Different wrist pins?

Have decided to stick to OEM valves as suggested above. Is there any preference on OEM head gasket vs a cometic one? My intention is to keep stock bore, and stock compression as long as everything is in spec with the block.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by SaltyPiff Different wrist pins? Have decided to stick to OEM valves as suggested above. Is there any preference on OEM head gasket vs a cometic one? My intention is to keep stock bore, and stock compression as long as everything is in spec with the block.

Yes. They have 2 options for the pistons. One is a .150” wrist pin, one is a .210” wrist pin. Thicker pin adds strength for higher revving engines. I’m a huge fan of Cometic, so I got one, but the OEM head gasket is fine. I also have Supertech valves, but only because one of the OEM exhaust valves melted and I needed to replace them anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SaltyPiff]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge Yes. They have 2 options for the pistons. One is a .150” wrist pin, one is a .210” wrist pin. Thicker pin adds strength for higher revving engines. I’m a huge fan of Cometic, so I got one, but the OEM head gasket is fine. I also have Supertech valves, but only because one of the OEM exhaust valves melted and I needed to replace them anyway. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What caused it to melt? Would I have this possibility of an issue? I'd rather just spend the extra couple hundred bucks on valves if anything could be a foreseeable issue.

[Solarsurge]

Originally Posted by SaltyPiff What caused it to melt? Would I have this possibility of an issue? I'd rather just spend the extra couple hundred bucks on valves if anything could be a foreseeable issue.

No clue. I bought the car with a separated head and block. The guy had it fixed with new valves but didn’t have the desire to put it back together, and I was looking for a buildable motor. After my machinist examined it, the seats were obviously done by hand and they did a pretty bad job, so I just replaced all the valves and recut the seats. If I had guess, I’d say detonation was the cause. The injectors were COVERED in crud and the one from that cylinder had a crusty tip, likely clogged and went lean. I had them sent off to be serviced.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SaltyPiff]

Originally Posted by Solarsurge No clue. I bought the car with a separated head and block. The guy had it fixed with new valves but didn’t have the desire to put it back together, and I was looking for a buildable motor. After my machinist examined it, the seats were obviously done by hand and they did a pretty bad job, so I just replaced all the valves and recut the seats. If I had guess, I’d say detonation was the cause. The injectors were COVERED in crud and the one from that cylinder had a crusty tip, likely clogged and went lean. I had them sent off to be serviced. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alright, so I guess it's safe to say unless something went wrong I wouldn't really be in the danger zone keeping those OEM valves lmao

[Fstrnyou]

I used OEM head gasket and new OEM head bolts.

I'm not opposed to you sticking with stock size 87.5mm pistons, as long as you check for proper P2W clearance.

[SaltyPiff]

Change couple things in the build list. Threw the different studs in, went for standard sized valves and some different rods. Plan on using these components, keep stock compression, port n polish head, springs, cams and a balance shaft delete. Any other suggestions towards the list?

Engine build:
-----
Pistons:
https://edgeautosport.com/manley-pla...d-6-2006-2007/

Rods:
https://edgeautosport.com/carrillo-h...d-6-2006-2007/

Main Bearings:
https://edgeautosport.com/king-beari...ion-2-0t-2013/

Rod Bearings:
https://edgeautosport.com/king-engin...ion-2-0t-2013/
-----
Head:
https://edgeautosport.com/supertech-...d-6-2006-2007/

Cams:
https://corksport.com/mazdaspeed-3-camshafts.html

Intake Valves:
https://edgeautosport.com/supertech-...d-6-2006-2007/

Exhaust Valves:
https://edgeautosport.com/supertech-...d-6-2006-2007/

Gasket:
https://edgeautosport.com/cometic-he...d-6-2006-2007/

Rebuild Kit:
https://edgeautosport.com/stage-3-mz...d-6-2006-2007/

Head Studs:
https://edgeautosport.com/arp-l19-he...-st-2013-2017/

Main Studs:
https://edgeautosport.com/arp-main-s...d-6-2006-2007/

Injector Seals:
https://corksport.com/mazdaspeed-3-f...tor-seals.html

[Fstrnyou]

Double triple check what bearing size you'll need. Measure journals, measure bores where the bearings go in the block and the rods, then take out the thickness of the bearings (listed on the bearing manufacturers website). Standard bearings in my build were too loose.

[SaltyPiff]

Originally Posted by Fstrnyou Double triple check what bearing size you'll need. Measure journals, measure bores where the bearings go in the block and the rods, then take out the thickness of the bearings (listed on the bearing manufacturers website). Standard bearings in my build were too loose.

Yea, before I buy the parts i'm going to have the head and block machined/inspected than order parts but those are the ones i'm aiming for. Hopefully everything is in spec!

[SaltyPiff]

I'm concerned about the valves. Want stock size, but the supertech with different material to withstand higher temp so no risk of heat problems. I do have a question regarding the shape. Flat/ dome shaped valve? Would you guys go with the valves I chose or a different choice??

[SaltyPiff]

Last thing, I made a huge mistake and failed to mark the order of the valvespring buckets before removing them. Thought the only thing I needed to keep track of were the cam caps....

[Fstrnyou]

If youre doing headwork, it no longer matters what bucket went where. You're starting from scratch and will need to measure clearance on each lobe and put the correct bucket in.

[5doorsoffury]

If you are going to do all this work posting and having ongoing conversations the LEAST you can do is get a fucking avatar. I hate that burning ginger its all i see nowadays.

FWIW my valve train is 100 stock with 100k miles on it from the PO block. No porting just mods in sig for 500hp on e85.