MD1032’s “Catch Phrase” Small Turbo Performance Build

[MD1032]

I’m just entering the stage where my build actually gets semi-interesting. I want to document the build very thoroughly so that others can duplicate it if desired. This is the purpose of internet forums, after all.

I bought this car nearly bone stock a little over a year ago with ~37,500 miles and it currently has about 75,000 miles. The stock engine is in good condition with compression 185 across the board last time I checked a couple weeks ago. I would be a great candidate for a pop-n-drop with new pistons and rods, but there aren’t any upgraded pistons I’m aware of that can survive 100+k miles which is what I really need given that I drive ~30-40k miles a year.

Bolt-On’s

My current bolt-on’s will be maintained throughout the build: a JBR 3.5” aluminum intake, CP-E TMIC, and CP-E catless long downpipe.

Turbo

Power will be provided by a used BNR S3 I picked up for $850 with 4k miles on it. This turbo was dropped in recently and tuning is ongoing. I like it so far. It’s not perfect, but close enough for my purposes. If it outlasts the K04, which only lasted 15-20k miles or so once I tuned it on methanol, it will be a win in my book. We’ll see.





This turbo has good spool characteristics “for its size”. In some logs, I have hit 20 psi as early as 3100 RPM. It feels similar to a K04 on the stock upper and lower downpipe (both stock cats). The best things about this turbo are the ability to floor it at low RPM’s (and not worry about the turbo spooling and throwing a rod), its impressive midrange torque, and its cost. The worst things about it are its slower response and lack of “punch” compared to the K04.

Tuning

I tune on a 2:10 methanol:E10 in-tank mix using Cobb ATR. I’ve considered Versatune, but the AP V3 is far too convenient for me with its ability to live monitor 6 things at once at CAN speeds. Tuning isn’t complete, but right now I’m running a reverse taper with ~2.30 load all the way across to about 5500-6000 RPM where I have found it necessary to have a sharp dropoff (sharper than it should be) lest I knock: my stock CBE seems to be causing some backpressure issues in the very high RPM’s. I will deal with it eventually.

Let the fun begin

Methanol injection system

My methanol injection system will be loosely based on what Sari posted here and it is going to be cheap:

GE3KSPD MOTORSPORTS

I already have every part I need for this setup except for the tank, tank tap, mounting hardware for the tank and pump, and the nylon tubing (I’m still trying to figure out what wall thickness I’m supposed to use…I’m using ¼” tubing and it comes in either 3/16” or 5/32” ID). I’ll be running the solenoid option instead of the check valve.

I did buy a TB spacer, however I won’t be using it per dale gribble’s research in this thread. Instead I will buy a cold pipe and have some bungs welded onto it.

I will install the meth system and AEM failsafe and start spraying on top of running my existing in-tank mix. When that is working to my satisfaction, I will discontinue the in-tank mix. The biggest drawback of my setup will be the push-to-connect fittings, which are garbage, however the AEM failsafe will hopefully keep things under control in the event that a line pops out. I have already verified that my methanol timing map won’t knock with the BNR on spring pressure while on straight 93 gas, which is awesome – I can simply have the AEM interrupt the EBCS signal.

Inexpensive, custom, @JgamB;-inspired catback exhaust

I drive a lot and cannot tolerate a loud exhaust. I will be using the following parts:



The Vibrant ultra quiet resonator will replace the useless “bottle” resonator on the speed daddy in the stock resonator location, and the Dynomax VT will be roughly installed as follows:



Why go through all this trouble? I took a spin in Jgamb’s car at ENMWM and no exhaust setup I’ve heard even comes close. It is quieter than stock when cruising around, but when you floor it, the sound is louder, but without being totally deafening like an electric exhaust cutout would be (I considered one of those as well). When the Dynomax VT valve is open, the whole system becomes totally straight-through. The downside is that the Dynomax VT will probably start rattling after about a year due to a design flaw – I will pre-mark it before installing it so that I can screw mod it once it starts rattling to stop the rattle.

The biggest problem I have right now on this front is that the speed daddy exhaust seems to have disappeared from the market. Out of stock on their own website, even. I may need to buy a different ebay CBE or a used one and find a way to make that work. I regret not ordering it while it was available.

Suspension

Concept: Spring rates roughly double stock (ride frequency ~2.0 Hz), revalved stock-style non-adjustable Bilstein dampers, stock ride height, stock alignment specs to start with.

I am already going beyond what the stock suspension was designed to do thanks to my upgraded tires and brake pads, occasionally bottoming out under hard braking on bumpy roads or roads with changing elevations.

I talked to Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports for a while about doing a setup with him. Unfortunately, we had a falling out after I asked him for a small discount ($125) off his “consultation fee”, which represents $250 of his extremely expensive revalve service (in total, $1750 for all four dampers). He pushed back and then I told him that I would agree to pay the full price. After that, he sent a response saying that he wasn’t interested in building my dampers because I wasn’t willing to “pay for good advice” and he didn’t “feel appreciated for the unique service he provides”. A very strange situation. Well, it’s a shame we couldn’t work together, however, he did a shitload of research, sending me all of his ideas along the way, and his contributions to this build will be appreciated.

Springs: I will be using individual spring rates for each corner based on the corner weights I obtained a few days ago. The car was loaded with 300 lbs in the driver’s seat when these weights were measured (matches my weight). I personally inspected the stock suspension prior to this being performed to make sure everything was in good condition to ensure the numbers would be as accurate as possible.



Shaikh gave me a few options for ride frequency and the one I have chosen is ~1.9/2.1 Hz front/rear which he told me equates to about 440/500 lb/in springs front/rear. I did a quick calculation in excel using the following formula to make sure this was right, using Zenit's motion ratio values (inverted per the formula which has it expressed as wheel/spring instead of spring/wheel). Sure enough, it seems correct. I played with all of these numbers a little bit and none of this is ever going to be exact. The main takeaway I got was that I’m pretty sure I need at least a 50 lb/in difference between the front and the rear if I want to make sure my ride frequencies front to rear differ by around 10-20% which seems to be ideal from the limited materials I’ve read online.





It’s pretty interesting the way the difference in weights between the driver and passenger sides is almost exactly 10% both front and rear. Obviously this would change if I changed the rear sway bar. I’ll worry about that detail later.

I will purchase the springs from Ground Control. The only potential problem here will be whether this setup will work properly at stock ride height. Shaikh said I may need hyperco tender springs to keep the springs in contact when the suspension is at full droop. I will talk to ground control and see if they can get me longer springs.

@phate; was kind enough to send me info on calculating some of the above. I also got some much-needed input from @zenit; during the whole initial suspension research phase and I have to thank him for that.

Dampers: I believe I will be using the Bilstein B6’s because they have an extended rod relative to the B8’s, which will allow me to run at stock ride height without the struts limiting the suspension downward travel. I will need to have them revalved because Shaikh indicated to me that they are factory valved for the stock spring rates and sent me this dyno graph of some stock B8’s, which honestly I don’t have enough experience to speak much about:



Sway bars: The rear will probably need replacement with a stiffer unit at some point, but I won’t touch it until I’ve installed and aligned the new suspension and gotten some seat time with it.

Tires

16” or 17” Bridgestone RE71R’s wrapped around some cheap rims for off-road use. I will probably target something in the 225-245 width range with corresponding offset and width…nothing crazy. These are monster tires.

I currently use stock size Michelin PSS on the stock rims and honestly the lateral grip is “pretty good” for a street tire, but straight line grip is mediocre as these tires cannot even hold 350 wtq from my BNR S3 in 3rd gear.

Cosmetic modifications

Hell no.

Miscellaneous

Corksport injector seals will be installed. As with many others, while I definitely take issue with Brock (Tokay444) and how he conducts himself, the design is too good to disregard.

Intake valves have never been cleaned, and I may clean them when I do the injector seals, although I still believe the turbo itself will limit airflow more than dirt on the intake valves. I have no OCC’s, and EGR is still installed and functional. I may just clean the EGR tube when we pop off the IM and that’s it.

Stock NGK SILTR6A7G spark plugs will be used. I doubt I’ll need to change these.

I am Damond Motorsports “threesome” mounted already.

I use Hawk HP+ pads on stock rotors and calipers. One of my favorite mods I’ve done to the car honestly.

I will be adding an EGT gauge to the second bung on my CP-E downpipe at some point. I will attempt to acquire a dual vent pod of some variety, hopefully I can snag a blockhead one on the FS forums at some point.

That’s all for now. My current project is getting the suspension stuff ordered.

[sheston]

That's quite the write up. Can't wait to see logs

[JgamB]

@MD1032; is the kind of person that gets the absolute most from this site and meeting others - a sponge for data with plenty to infer on his own. Nice amalgamation of sources here, John.

And if you're looking for 100K mile pistons, this is currently your only option

[zenit]

Originally Posted by MD1032 When the Dynomax VT valve is open, the whole system becomes totally straight-through. The downside is that the Dynomax VT will probably start rattling after about a year due to a design flaw – I will pre-mark it before installing it so that I can screw mod it once it starts rattling to stop the rattle.

An alternative to the whole muffler install might be a manual throttle plate, installed somewhere in the system, preferably post muffler.

See apexi exhaust control valve:

Originally Posted by MD1032 Concept: Spring rates roughly double stock (ride frequency ~2.0 Hz), revalved stock-style non-adjustable Bilstein dampers, stock ride height, stock alignment specs to start with. ... Shaikh gave me a few options for ride frequency and the one I have chosen is ~1.9/2.1 Hz front/rear which he told me equates to about 440/500 lb/in springs front/rear. I did a quick calculation in excel using the following formula to make sure this was right, using Zenit's motion ratio values (inverted per the formula which has it expressed as wheel/spring instead of spring/wheel). Sure enough, it seems correct. I played with all of these numbers a little bit and none of this is ever going to be exact. The main takeaway I got was that I’m pretty sure I need at least a 50 lb/in difference between the front and the rear if I want to make sure my ride frequencies front to rear differ by around 10-20% which seems to be ideal from the limited materials I’ve read online.

On the money with this one with frequency. I'm running ~2.25&2.5 hertz and I wouldn't recommend it for DD. Most of the Juan spec'ed coilover packages run ~400/450 for ~1.9/2.1 hertz for this reason... Your car is a tad heavier than the juan though.

Originally Posted by MD1032 It’s pretty interesting the way the difference in weights between the driver and passenger sides is almost exactly 10% both front and rear. Obviously this would change if I changed the rear sway bar. I’ll worry about that detail later.

if you're doing full corner weight adjustment, you need adjustable swaybar links for this reason- but you probably knew that!

Originally Posted by MD1032 I will purchase the springs from Ground Control. The only potential problem here will be whether this setup will work properly at stock ride height. Shaikh said I may need hyperco tender springs to keep the springs in contact when the suspension is at full droop. I will talk to ground control and see if they can get me longer springs.

IMO, ZFG about tender springs.

Front springs are captive, and at the 400+ rate you'll be running, it's highly unlikely that you'll have enough rebound travel to fully unseat a front spring. Even if you go full droop up front, duke of hazard style the odds are in your favor that the assembly will go back together correctly.

Rear springs can't use tender springs, since they're compressed in an arc. See about ordering a stand alone rear spring seat/adjuster from GC or from from BC (see @phate;'s thread).

You can definitely order a variety of lengths, and I'm considering buying same rate, but an inch longer rear springs from eibach, since I have my GC rear adjusters maxed out at full height. You'll definitely need longer rear springs than what most are using with the GC kit, if you stock or a little up @MD1032;

Originally Posted by MD1032 Dampers: I believe I will be using the Bilstein B6’s because they have an extended rod relative to the B8’s, which will allow me to run at stock ride height without the struts limiting the suspension downward travel. I will need to have them revalved because Shaikh indicated to me that they are factory valved for the stock spring rates and sent me this dyno graph of some stock B8’s, which honestly I don’t have enough experience to speak much about:

I'm not sure how you plan on making this work with either the b6 or b8 since the shoulder is so much smaller on the inverted design (GC kit will not work)

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by zenit An alternative to the whole muffler install might be a manual throttle plate, installed somewhere in the system, preferably post muffler. See apexi exhaust control valve:

Like I said I thought about a cutout, even an electric version of the above device. They are too loud for my taste. After 30 minutes driving up and down the dragon with that thing open, I have a feeling I would want to die.

Originally Posted by zenit if you're doing full corner weight adjustment, you need adjustable swaybar links for this reason- but you probably knew that!

Correct, I'll be getting those whiteline ones. Local dude added them to his car and sent me a pic. They look legit.

Originally Posted by zenit IMO, ZFG about tender springs. ... You can definitely order a variety of lengths, and I'm considering buying same rate, but an inch longer rear springs from eibach, since I have my GC rear adjusters maxed out at full height. You'll definitely need longer rear springs than what most are using with the GC kit, if you stock or a little up @MD1032;

Good to know about the tender springs. I don't know if you read the whole e-mail chain from Shaikh that I forwarded to you (I'll definitely forgive you if you didn't...that guy can actually type more than me somehow, and that's saying something), but he wasn't sure I would need them.

Yeah Shaikh told me that GC could probably get me longer springs. I would try to get longer springs front and rear and use the adjuster that comes with their kit for the rear. I still haven't called them yet. I got home too late last night.

Originally Posted by zenit I'm not sure how you plan on making this work with either the b6 or b8 since the shoulder is so much smaller on the inverted design (GC kit will not work)

I don't understand what you mean here. Are you saying that because they're an inverted design, the adjuster will not fit over the shock rod? In that case couldn't I just buy a different adjuster from another company?

You know it's interesting, Shaikh had some kind of concern about the fitment of the GC kit but I dismissed it because I couldn't understand how there would be any fitment problems when both the Koni yellow and Bilstein B6 are designed to be OE replacement parts.

edit: Oh, and by the way, I really appreciate your feedback here. Also with regards to the dukes of hazzard reference...don't forget, I live in PA with some of the worst roads in the country. There is an intersection not one mile from me where I can lift all four wheels in the air if I go more than about 50 MPH or so through it (as I have done before).

[Easter Bunny]

Tl/dr

[WAMBUSHHHH!]

John is the definition of research 5,000,000 times and do the work once (with the minor exception being his DP. Ask him about it sometime..). One of the few guys that takes a genuine interest in your car and willing to help ANYONE out when it comes to the platform. Glad you're sharing all this data for anyone interested. This also serves as a warning: If you haven't already noticed John likes to write, like a fucking lot. So if you think a question is going to be a short answer, get your god damn reading glasses.

@Mauro_Penguin; seems to have a decent handle on suspension pitfalls, John. We discussed in length what he had to go through so its worth hitting him up if you haven't already to share some shit.

[Mauro_Penguin]

@WAMBUSHHHH!; you sexy beefcake!

I skimmed through the thread this morning over coffee. Reread everything in more detail now.
@MD1032; I'm glad you spoke to shaikh and have some info to start your journey with. (Kind of funny you made him angry though.) Alex shared stories about the glorious philly streets you guys have to endure, and having read the thread I have an idea of what your goals are. You want better control of weight transfer without actually lowering the car.

Bilstein dampers are a great choice. I agree with you in not swapping the rear sway bar yet until you finish tuning the car with the springs and corner balancing.

The whiteline endlinks are ok, but hunt down a good deal through vendors or amazon. They are nothing special other than being adjustable. They have a slight bit of play in their coarse threads so be sure to tighten them down well.

I understand why you were thinking of getting different spring rates for each corner based on weight, but avoid this idea all together if you are getting ground control adjustable sleeves. Based on your posted weights your delta between L and R is not much (Roughly 100 in the front and 60lbs in the rear). You can balance that with stiffer springs and 1 or 2 full turns on an adjustable collar (it really doesn't take much at all). When you swap to higher springs rates remember that they resist compression, so you won't see as much of a change in alignment and weight transfer like the stock suspension does. Although using different spring rates for each corner can be done, it would add a fuck ton of complexity and headache when trying to tune the ride. You may need to have different camber settings on each corner in order to get ideal tire contact, which will make the ride a little unpredictable when going through left and right turns due to bumpsteer or motion steer (name may be wrong). The only time I know people optimally use different corner springs are when racing on a consistent turn track like an oval shape where it's only left OR right turns throughout the whole race in order to control sway or lateral weight transfer.

And invest in a pyrometer to dial in your camber, tire pressure, and other fun stuff. But alignment will be a whole other post once you start tuning the suspension response.

[MD1032]

I talked to ground control just now and the guy on the other end was very helpful. I obtained the following information:

1) I can get any spring rates I want in increments of 25 lb/in

2) I can order them in lengths of 6, 7, or 8 inches. The standard size they send people is 6". @zenit; you may be interested to hear this)

3) Their coilover setup will physically fit the Bilsteins, however he told me that during their testing, they found the Bilsteins' internal bump stops limited travel in the compression direction, although he did not specify whether they tested with the B6 or B8. Personally I believe this will be a non-issue at stock ride height with the B6's. I will verify with Bilstein when I call them about the revalving.

Originally Posted by Mauro_Penguin I understand why you were thinking of getting different spring rates for each corner based on weight, but avoid this idea all together if you are getting ground control adjustable sleeves. Based on your posted weights your delta between L and R is not much (Roughly 100 in the front and 60lbs in the rear). You can balance that with stiffer springs and 1 or 2 full turns on an adjustable collar (it really doesn't take much at all). When you swap to higher springs rates remember that they resist compression, so you won't see as much of a change in alignment and weight transfer like the stock suspension does. Although using different spring rates for each corner can be done, it would add a fuck ton of complexity and headache when trying to tune the ride. You may need to have different camber settings on each corner in order to get ideal tire contact, which will make the ride a little unpredictable when going through left and right turns due to bumpsteer or motion steer (name may be wrong). The only time I know people optimally use different corner springs are when racing on a consistent turn track like an oval shape where it's only left OR right turns throughout the whole race in order to control sway or lateral weight transfer.

Interesting stuff. Mr. helpful ground control guy and I talked about this.

Shaikh never explained his reasoning behind running different springs on each side, he just said that when he used it in the past, customers noted that the car had a more symmetric suspension response.

My assumption was that Shaikh's logic is based around using the harder springs on the driver's side to make the ride frequency match left-to-right. Mr. ground control on the other hand said that the wheel rate is more important, and that I would want the wheel rate to be the same on both sides of the car. He said the same thing you did, that simply corner balancing the car using the spring adjusters was the way to go.

I don't understand why you think different spring rates would necessitate different camber settings, and why it would complicate tuning the ride. By adding a harder spring to the driver's side, I wouldn't have to move the spring adjusters to compensate for the weight at all...the car should in theory sit perfectly flat with me in it, and if I were to steer left and right an equal amount, the suspension would compress the exact same amount on both sides, which means the dampers would function symmetrically from side to side (since you can see above the Bilsteins use divergent valving). This sounds ideal in theory.

So basically, I'm still confused as to what really matters here.

Originally Posted by WAMBUSHHHH! John is the definition of research 5,000,000 times.

Hah...it might seem that way but in reality the gearheads are probably watching my feeble attempts at learning/doing this suspension stuff and laughing.

[Mauro_Penguin]

One or the other....

Either variable spring rates per corner

OR

Adjustable spring collars to corner balance the cars

The downside would be unnecessary complexity if you combine both, that being varied rates on adjustable perches. I'm sure you could make it all work but it would take more time than tuning symmetrical suspension. You should read more about corner balancing to see the effects of suspension travel and compensated weight.

Why I mentioned the odd behavior in handling is because..... if you run a slightly softer spring on the lighter side (let's say R side as opposed to L) that side may compress more when braking and having the momentum weight transferred to the front, which could cause the softer side to steer itself more, while the rear lifts up. (Because toe changes as suspension cycles.)

You would have to be very meticulous in choosing the correct spring rates to avoid that odd behavior. Adjusting the height or even corner balancing will prove t9 be challenging because what may take 1 full turn on one side, may result in 2 on the other due to the spring rate difference. Also don't assume that because coilovers say they are pre-adjusted that they are matching. One side might be a turn or two off which can be anywhere from 2-6mm depending on perch threads, that can vary tire temp gradient from 5-15*F if camber isn't set properly.

I could be over thinking the whole thing, I have a habit of doing that. The Nator IL guys may be better suited to dismiss my concerns. I just see it as opening a can of worms, rather than adjusting the heights at each corner accordingly to balance the car, your method involves working around this weight error and essentially not needing adjustable perches in conjunctiin with the varying spring rates. You can have a very nice handling suspension for less hassle, and less money than most would think. Your goal is good, I don't think your method to achieving it with adjustable perches and varied springs is ideal. If indeed you want to pioneer this method on the ms3, well then have it haus.... I'll be following your build thread either way.

[zenit]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Like I said I thought about a cutout, even an electric version of the above device. They are too loud for my taste. After 30 minutes driving up and down the dragon with that thing open, I have a feeling I would want to die.

look closer at the ECV valve, it's actually designed to be sammiched between a two bolt flange connection and is spring actuated, with a cable manually adjusting preload, very similarly to the VT muffler. There is no vent to atmosphere.

Originally Posted by MD1032 Yeah Shaikh told me that GC could probably get me longer springs. I would try to get longer springs front and rear and use the adjuster that comes with their kit for the rear. I still haven't called them yet. I got home too late last night.

7" or 8" springs in the rear should be the ticket, if using the GC rear adjuster. I'm using 6" provided with the kit. 8" would likely be safer since there's at least a couple inches of adjustment in the rear and you'll be running softer springs than what I'm running.

Originally Posted by MD1032 I don't understand what you mean here. Are you saying that because they're an inverted design, the adjuster will not fit over the shock rod? In that case couldn't I just buy a different adjuster from another company? You know it's interesting, Shaikh had some kind of concern about the fitment of the GC kit but I dismissed it because I couldn't understand how there would be any fitment problems when both the Koni yellow and Bilstein B6 are designed to be OE replacement parts.

The bilstiens use a much thicker "shaft" (which is actually an inverted shock) as compared to oem or koni's standard twin tube design, which means a greatly reduced shoulder, where the GC coilover sleeve rests.


Before you spend money with GC, I would call back and get specific about how they have resolved this issue and if they have any cars actually running bils with their kit.

[MD1032]

Thanks @zenit; I will call GC again tonight to confirm, although the guy I spoke to sounded pretty knowledgeable and he was sure that they would fit the Bils. Have you measured the stock springs at all? I can't find any measurements here on the forums. I want to run the tallest spring I can both front and rear without raising the car by any significant amount.

@Mauro_Penguin; I definitely see your point. You're right, braking (and also accelerating, which produces the opposite weight transfer) is one area where having different wheel rates would definitely be non-ideal, because the weight transfer easily overwhelms the relatively small difference in observed corner weights. Whether this would be enough to matter, I don't know. Let's say under braking I throw another 600 pounds on the front wheels and I have a 450 lb/in spring on the driver's side and 400 lb/in spring on the passenger side. Assuming the weight transfer was equal on both sides, the passenger side would compress another 1.500 - 1.333 = 0.167" (minus whatever residual effect remains from still having my weight on the driver's side). The only thing is, I believe having a higher spring rate on the driver's rear would actually increase the weight transferred to the passenger front, and I don't know how the math would work out there. @phate; any input?

The best route may either be going with a small difference in spring rates in the front only, or no difference in spring rates. I guess no matter what I end up with, if the setup pisses me off and feels squirrley like my current one, I can always just buy another set of springs and try again. The dampers are going to have the same valving on both sides

One thing I do wonder about is what the tolerances on these springs are. I wonder how GC can even offer 25 lb/in increments.

edit: found this relevant thread: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/une...-right.298039/

[Mauro_Penguin]

If you ever research coil spring manufacturers you'll see that most of them offer specific range sizes in 25 or 50lb increments. It's not unusual at all. I believe ground control uses eibach springs for their whole coilover catalog, so if you need extra food for thought you could probably contact eibach and ask what springs they offer in whatever ID or OD ground control bases their kit on.

[MD1032]

I am hashing out some of the suspension details with phate offline. In the meantime I spent more time planning other stuff.

Methanol injection:

I bought an extra cold pipe which I'm going to have aluminum plate welded to (per Vansquish) so I can tap threads for the nozzle and boost switch.

I pre-ordered this bitchin meth tank/pump mount from HTP.



I wasn't originally planning on having a level sensor. I should probably scour the internet and see if I can find a schematic for some kind of simple LED switch I can put together so I can use it.

Speaking of wiring, there isn't much detail on how to wire non-controller based meth kits on these boards. My original plan was to take primary wire from the add-a-fuse and just run it from the fuse box, to the boost switch, to the solenoid, to the pump, and to ground from there. I'm starting to wonder if I would run into any issues running the solenoid and pump off the same wire. Perhaps I should run separate wiring to each one from the boost switch rather than passing all the current the pump will be drawing through the solenoid, ie, run the pump and solenoid in parallel rather than in series.

Wheels/tires:




Source: https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

I think I'm gonna end up with this combo. It's about $1080 shipped. The wheels are 16x7.5, so a little smaller than the FD's, but I doubt it will matter much. The only thing that sucks about these is that I'm going to have to use hub centering rings which I just have a bad feeling about.

I was encouraged by locals to step up to a 245 on a 17" rim but I just can't justify the increase in cost honestly. Especially when I'm going to be killing these tires on probably a yearly basis.

[Helrich]

Originally Posted by MD1032 I think I'm gonna end up with this combo. It's about $1080 shipped. The wheels are 16x7.5, so a little smaller than the FD's, but I doubt it will matter much. The only thing that sucks about these is that I'm going to have to use hub centering rings which I just have a bad feeling about. I was encouraged by locals to step up to a 245 on a 17" rim but I just can't justify the increase in cost honestly. Especially when I'm going to be killing these tires on probably a yearly basis.

Bruh, grab some 22"s with the rims that keep on spinnin'.

I wouldn't worry about the centering rings, according to TireRack they're required for my wheels too but I center mine on the lugs by just being mindful when putting the wheels back on. A couple dozen autocross runs later and no fatalities.
I'd be more worried about cheap-ish cast wheels on PA roads!

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Helrich Bruh, grab some 22"s with the rims that keep on spinnin'.

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I'm not worried about potholes. The rims are so cheap that I can afford to just buy a new one if they get dented. I don't think that'll happen with a 50 ratio sidewall though.

[phate]

I'd get the widest wheel you can fit. I've stepped up in width over the years and don't see a point in narrow wheels for a performance setup (unless rules say otherwise). Aside from tire compound, wheel width is probably second most important.

Hubcentric rings are unnecessary on tapered seat lug wheels. The wheels are lug centric in that case, the rings just make it a little easier to get things started.

Colorado is keeping me busy, I'll send the spreadsheet when I have a few minutes again.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by phate I'd get the widest wheel you can fit.

I mean I could step it up to like a 17x9, 40-50ish offset rim with a 255/40/17 tire but that's going to drive up the cost of the whole package by about $500.

[phate]

Originally Posted by MD1032 I mean I could step it up to like a 17x9, 40-50ish offset rim with a 255/40/17 tire but that's going to drive up the cost of the whole package by about $500.

I know that cost increase kinda sucks, but how soon will you want more out of the car? The easiest way to get more grip (since you'll already be running a sticky compound) is to get more tire on the ground, and you'll need a wider wheel to really benefit from a wider tire. There are a lot of good options in the 245/40/17 and 255/40/17 sizes, and 17x9 wheels are pretty common for our cars.

[aackthpt]

I have the tire rack centering rings on my winter setup and they deliver them on the rims - you may never know they're there.

Are you going to DD your performance tires? Or is this set under discussion only for race car mode?

Personally I wouldn't worry about the aspect ratio because if you get unlucky you can blow a wheel at any size. All you can do is try to avoid those situations and suck it up. Two years ago Michigan put out a report that the average motorist was eating like $700 that year due to road conditions. I had one of my winter enkeis wrecked that year.. At least I came in under average. No problems since but in certain areas this year the roads are seriously starting to disintegrate. Ugh.


Tapnstalk

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by phate I know that cost increase kinda sucks, but how soon will you want more out of the car? The easiest way to get more grip (since you'll already be running a sticky compound) is to get more tire on the ground, and you'll need a wider wheel to really benefit from a wider tire. There are a lot of good options in the 245/40/17 and 255/40/17 sizes, and 17x9 wheels are pretty common for our cars.

Don't get me wrong, cost differences on simple things like this aren't a major concern to me when all is said and done. It just means I have to wait a little longer to save up the money to buy them because I don't carry a balance on my credit cards unlike I suspect most of MSFers. I'm just trying to spend efficiently. I don't mind spending an extra $500 if it's going to give me say another 20% grip. But if its only going to give me another 5% because I'm already really far into diminishing returns, it's definitely not worth the money.

But yeah I could go with something like this combo:

Rota Titan 17x9, +42mm offset, 255/40/17 RE71R, 73.1 to 67.1 hub centering rings

Amazon.com: * ROTA TITAN 17X9 PCD:5X114.3 OFFSET:42 HB:73 HYPERBLACK LIGHTWEIGHT: Automotive

Amazon.com: * ROTA TITAN 17X9 PCD:5X114.3 OFFSET:42 HB:73 HYPERBLACK LIGHTWEIGHT: Automotive
Amazon.com: * ROTA TITAN 17X9 PCD:5X114.3 OFFSET:42 HB:73 HYPERBLACK LIGHTWEIGHT: Automotive

[MD1032]

A little update...

Suspension

Hashed out some of the details with phate offline. This guy is a fountain of suspension knowledge. Basically determined, my original theories with the different spring rates are not going to work for what I'm trying to do. I think different spring rates could actually work well in some situations, like low-speed autocross events where cornering response is paramount, but not for me

Take as an example just the front "axle" - the driver's side has more weight on it, which increases cornering load on the driver's side tire during steady state cornering relative to the passenger side. Increasing spring rates individually has the same effect - increases cornering load on the tire, therefore, my plan would have actually exaggerated the differences between the sides during steady state cornering...in theory.

Moving right along...I talked to "Tim" at Bilstein in North Carolina who will be revalving my B6's. E-mailed him the info. I will be ordering 425/500 lb/in springs front/rear from ground control in either the 7" or 8" size.

I'm also thinking about ordering the Moog K160228 top hats instead of the OE for when I swap out the fronts.

Tires/wheels

I ordered some wrong-size tires that I got a killer deal on from Tire Rack. These will be good enough for now. (attached)

Still looking for used rims, 17x9's and looking to stay in the +45 to +48 offset range. Haven't found any great deals yet.

Meth injection

I got the extra cold pipe in the mail. Looking at this thing, honestly I can see two perfectly serviceable places to tap it as-is, no need to add plates. One is the nub on the top near the outlet leftover from the casting process, and one is the number plate on the backside near the outlet. Will visit by buddy nearby sometime and get this thing tapped. I'm also going to start wiring the failsafe and getting the software set up for that once my blockhead vent pod arrives. That is going to be a huge pain in the ass. I hate wiring.

[Mauro_Penguin]

Butane hand torch... ~$20
Butane can... ~$5
Acid flux... ~$2

I just recently made the switch myself while fixing a glass top stove, and trust me you will never go back to soldering irons again. Wiring will turn into a breeze.

[Mazdazilla6]

Hey John! Never realized this was you on msf. I've seen some 17x9 RPF1s floating around on some FB groups.

[phate]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Tires/wheels I ordered some wrong-size tires that I got a killer deal on from Tire Rack. These will be good enough for now. (attached)

A big thanks to @speed3 britz; on that one.

http://www.mazdaspeedforum.org/forum/foru...rs-3-a-197794/

[Helrich]

I wouldn't really call them 'wrong-size', 8.6" tread width on a 9" wheel is actually pretty nice.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by Mazdazilla6 Hey John! Never realized this was you on msf. I've seen some 17x9 RPF1s floating around on some FB groups.

I never realized you were...whoever you are, either. Lol

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Mazdazilla6]

Originally Posted by MD1032 I never realized you were...whoever you are, either. Lol Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

Hahaha, oops. It's Austin G.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Intake valves have never been cleaned, and I may clean them when I do the injector seals, although I still believe the turbo itself will limit airflow more than dirt on the intake valves. I have no OCC’s, and EGR is still installed and functional. I may just clean the EGR tube when we pop off the IM and that’s it.

When I cleaned the valves on my first MS6 at ~80K, I was blown away by the difference it made. Didn't expect it to do a damn thing.

When I was doing it on my second MS6 two weeks ago, I was telling myself that it was probably just me being a ricer the first time (3 years ago), and that it really won't make a big difference. Nope, blew me away again.

TL;DR: Clean your valves. Then your meth spray will do the rest.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx When I cleaned the valves on my first MS6 at ~80K, I was blown away by the difference it made. Didn't expect it to do a damn thing. When I was doing it on my second MS6 two weeks ago, I was telling myself that it was probably just me being a ricer the first time (3 years ago), and that it really won't make a big difference. Nope, blew me away again. TL;DR: Clean your valves. Then your meth spray will do the rest.

Interesting man. Got any before/after logs?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Mazdazilla6]

+1 on the valve cleaning. It won't make a huge difference in power but response should increase and then engine might operate a bit smoother. The most vital area in the intake tract on an engine is the space right above the intake valve. You want the air in this area to not be turbulent, and anything irregular (like heavy carbon deposits) will cause turbulence in the air as it is going into the cylinder.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Interesting man. Got any before/after logs? Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

I do not. I hardly ever log anything.

Think of it this way: Your turbo is an air pump. For any pump, flow is based on pressure, and flow restriction, hence intake manis, I/Cs, etc. Can have 50 psi, and if you have high restriction, it's not going to do a damn thing for you.

So you're going to add the bigger air pump because you want more air, and not address the smallest curtain area for flow in the whole system? And remember the valve is only open for a short period of time, while the other stuff is always open.

Think about it like that, it makes more sense that it actually does something. The crap won't be on the seat, otherwise you wouldn't seal, but it does cover some of the flow space as the valve goes down.

I'm seriously considering throwing an injection system on just to spray water during summer to keep the valves clean.

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx I'm seriously considering throwing an injection system on just to spray water during summer to keep the valves clean.

I definitely understand that. In my dream world, I would have a separate fuel cell with a port injection system spraying E85 full time to keep the valves clean (and reduce knock). That may come at a much later stage in this build.

[ChaunceyM]

Oooh, you're getting the same rims I just bought for the winter setup on the wife's minivan. You guys can be rim buddies! Wait, that came out wrong...

They should be here by Monday and on the car by Tuesday if you want to see how they look in person.

And I love reading this tread. The level of over-thinking you do makes me feel so much better about the times I slightly overthink things. SUBSCRIBE, BITCH!

[MD1032]

Yeah, ChaunceyM, I need to clean things up a little bit. Not going with the sport editions anymore...looking for a 17x9.

Yesterday and today I went over the wiring for the AEM failsafe and came up with a plan. It's obvious to me that they meant for this to work with one of their controllers. I'll make it work. I do sincerely hope my flow meter doesn't fail like dale gribble's and a couple other people on here.

Here's their diagram of the wiring coming off the back of the gauge...there is quite a lot of it.





Here's what I'm thinking:



My objective is to splice into the factory wiring as little as possible. Therefore I will run anything switched off the Add-A-Fuse. I will run a single wire to the positive battery post for the constant power. I did order some ATM fuse holders and 5A fuses as they recommend and will be using those where indicated.

The reason I'm running the injection % right off the output side of the boost switch is that it basically states in the manual that you can run it right off the pump signal...in other words, it's just looking for a % of 12 volts to show up and in my case it's either going to be reading 0% or 100% all the time.

They have some very stupid looking way of rigging the EBCS interrupt in the manual:



Instead of doing that, I'm just going to buy an NC relay and put the closed part of it in-line with the EBCS wire, then use the AEM's +12V trigger signal to open the relay.

Now I just have to figure out how I want to route the wiring through the cabin and firewall. I'm thinking simply drilling a new hole and putting a grommet on it will be easiest, but if I find something that looks usable, I'll post it up.

Attached a photo after I got my RS3's last night. Cuz racecar.

[JgamB]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Now I just have to figure out how I want to route the wiring through the cabin and firewall. I'm thinking simply drilling a new hole and putting a grommet on it will be easiest, but if I find something that looks usable, I'll post it up. Attached a photo after I got my RS3's last night. Cuz racecar.

There's a ~2.5" plastic puck for wrong hand drive behind your glove box that you can run all kinds of wiring / vac lines through with minimal fuss. Just be sure to use some edge strip protection on the exposed sharp metal where it enters the engine bay, and some loom across the back edge of the cowl. I've had my wiring through it for quite some time, and unless you're running a tubular mani, I don't see heat being a problem for the wires. (Mine are A-OK after more than a year)

[MD1032]

Minor update...As always RPM hooked me up with a killer deal on some Bilstein B6's, which are en route to Bilstein in North Carolina to be revalved...get this...$40 a corner. I cannot wait to get these things installed. I know they are going to perform well. Also have to give a shout out to RPM for providing >90% of the parts on my car at this point that I haven't bought locally.

Ground Control springs also ordered. Ended up going with 8" springs all around, 425 lb/in front and 500 lb/in rear.

Bought new front OEM top hats and bearings as well. Will likely reuse the front end links for now and replace later with whatever I decide I want.

On the methanol injection side I discovered today that the cold pipes are different between the Gen1 and Gen2, so I'm going to have to send the one I bought off MSF back and get another one (the seller didn't realize there was a difference either)...







Once I get the new cold pipe I will probably end up tapping it myself since I can't find anyone locally with a 1/8" NPT tap, and that will complete my methanol kit other than the tank from HTP.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Minor update...As always RPM hooked me up with a killer deal on some Bilstein B6's, which are en route to Bilstein in North Carolina to be revalved...get this...$40 a corner. I cannot wait to get these things installed. I know they are going to perform well. Also have to give a shout out to RPM for providing >90% of the parts on my car at this point that I haven't bought locally. Ground Control springs also ordered. Ended up going with 8" springs all around, 425 lb/in front and 500 lb/in rear. Bought new front OEM top hats and bearings as well. Will likely reuse the front end links for now and replace later with whatever I decide I want. On the methanol injection side I discovered today that the cold pipes are different between the Gen1 and Gen2, so I'm going to have to send the one I bought off MSF back and get another one (the seller didn't realize there was a difference either)... Once I get the new cold pipe I will probably end up tapping it myself since I can't find anyone locally with a 1/8" NPT tap, and that will complete my methanol kit other than the tank from HTP.

Woah, why so cheap for revalve?? They advertise at ~$100 a corner. I'll have shocks moving next week if it's that cheap.

You have the phone number/e-mail you contacted?

Edit: I think we have a couple PU coldpipes at the house. Tag wetz, and I when you put up a wtb. Don't know how the new regime is with banning

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[MD1032]

Originally Posted by xfeejayx Woah, why so cheap for revalve?? They advertise at ~$100 a corner. I'll have shocks moving next week if it's that cheap. You have the phone number/e-mail you contacted? Edit: I think we have a couple PU coldpipes at the house. Tag wetz, and I when you put up a wtb. Don't know how the new regime is with banning Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Already squared away on cold pipes, I'm buying g00s3y's old one. Thanks though.

I honestly don't know why it's so cheap. His explanation which I tried to recreate above is still confusing to me.

I e-mailed him to ask permission to share his contact info and he said "normally it is $75.00 shock and $85.00 strut - just let them know that". That's still a really good deal IMO...probably more than worth the money, especially if you're running anything significantly different from the stock spring rates. Send me a PM and I'll hook you up with his contact info.

[xfeejayx]

Originally Posted by MD1032 Already squared away on cold pipes, I'm buying g00s3y's old one. Thanks though. I honestly don't know why it's so cheap. His explanation which I tried to recreate above is still confusing to me. I e-mailed him to ask permission to share his contact info and he said "normally it is $75.00 shock and $85.00 strut - just let them know that". That's still a really good deal IMO...probably more than worth the money, especially if you're running anything significantly different from the stock spring rates. Send me a PM and I'll hook you up with his contact info.

When I checked last year it was $100/$120, or $90/$110 or something like that. You must give really good head. Good work.