Project Craigspeed, the ultimate budget speed

[zenit]

Originally Posted by satisfied There isn't a logical goal to the build. It's a girl's daily driver. You need to stop thinking we're going to break dynos for less than 5k, or bring home stance wars golden dildo of approval for $400.00. We're just going to make a mazdaspeed 3 more of a mazdaspeed 3. So maybe title change to: Project Craigspeed : 'The ultimate budget speed in some Asian girl's opinion' to avoid further confusion.

You can continue to ignore advice here, that's your prerogative.
Just know that your previous experience in the miata community does not trump the mazdaspeed platform specific advice we have to give.


Welcome to MSF.

[WetzMS3]

Originally Posted by satisfied I agree, it's tricky, and your method is QUITE a bit cheaper, The way I see it, it's an expensive part super critical to allowing a turbo to breathe. Might want to just buy it once, and have it work. If we take it to the inspection station and it doesn't work right after install (provided my target AFR isn't 12:1 @ 3600 RPM [it won't be]) , I can't imagine CS giving me a huge hassle on returning it and trying a different option. Since emissions are such tricky business and this isn't a car that should need as much attention as the race car I just want a solution that's going to work for all intents and purposes.

Good luck getting CS to take a downpipe back after it has been installed and run, simply because you don't pass emissions.

If you do some reading on this site, you'll find that the importance of an aftermarket downpipe is debated. Many feel that removing the second cat is all that is needed for a stock turbo. Others, myself included have seen gains from a catless downpipe. Something nearly everyone agrees on is that the gains from removing the secondary cat are far greater than from replacing the downpipe. Those discussions all assume a catless downpipe as well, so I imagine the gains from your catted downpipe will be less.

Also keep in mind aftermarket converters are more prone to failure, so that one time replacement may not end up being one time. Especially if your k04 decides to start depositing oil in the cat.

[anavrinIV]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Especially if your k04 decides to start depositing oil in the cat.

...which is highly likely and, IMO, should be expected sooner or later with an aftermarket downpipe.

I will vouch for the koni yellows....you're planning springs and I wouldn't match swifts with Orange shocks. I run swifts on stock shocks and would like to stop doing so. I've run yellows in the past and have nothing but good things to say about them.

downpipe is your call. You know what it costs, make the decision

[Omega]

Originally Posted by WetzMS3 Something nearly everyone agrees on is that the gains from removing the secondary cat are far greater than from replacing the downpipe.

x1000 - I'm making somewhere in the ballpark (vdyno) 310-320whp on E85 with a 6 (my drivetrain loss would put a 3 around 350whp easy) stock downpipe and a test pipe. I'd probably gain ~10whp from a DP throughout a healthy range, but not enough of an improvement to justify the cost for stock turbo...

[MSP6]

The cost or the PITA of install. I'm at a point where unless I found a DP for literally dirt cheap, like a local craigslist ad for an ebay DP for $50 I won't even bother. Even then it would sits in my garage for months and months. Not worth the scraped knuckles and my children hearing me say so many MSF words.

[frothy]

Originally Posted by satisfied We have emissions. So race pipe is a no go. Yes, we COULD return to stock for emissions, but that's no fun.

Originally Posted by satisfied CS already confirmed their long catted DP passes, so that's our ONLY option there.

The Corksport Long Catted DP is essentially a DP WITH a racepipe (replaces sections 1 and 2 in the diagram below).

Diagram from Corksport's website:



The aforementioned DP:



So the thought process that you'll fail emissions testing for a racepipe and pass with Corksport's DP is a bit absurd.

[satisfied]

So, I've got some of you guys saying the "K04 is an indestructible diamond coated turbo hewn from solid granite." Others are saying "It blows oil at the seams faster than you can fill after 500 miles."

Which is it?

I did want to do the ATP 2871R as the car does have 45k on it now, and I don't really know what the K04's true lifespan is.

Originally Posted by frothy The Corksport Long Catted DP is essentially a DP WITH a racepipe (replaces sections 1 and 2 in the diagram below). So the thought process that you'll fail emissions testing for a racepipe and pass with Corksport's DP is a bit absurd.

Corksports words. Not mine. I see a lot of assumptions, but no pass papers for WA state emissions with a race pipe. A major manufacturer (in this very state, mind you) whom I have 0 reason to doubt says I'll pass.

No one is arguing that I would get the most power per dollar by dumping a 10" exhaust under the car. It's not going to suit the build. I'm not ignoring advice, I'm following someone else's, granted that person/organization wants to make money but they're innocent until proven guilty.

I'll post here pass or fail and we'll all know for sure.

[Omega]

Originally Posted by satisfied So, I've got some of you guys saying the "K04 is an indestructible diamond coated turbo hewn from solid granite." Others are saying "It blows oil at the seams faster than you can fill after 500 miles." Which is it?

Actually, nobody said either @anavrinIV; mentioned it would start to lose oil past it's seals once you go DP - which is pretty much true, it'll be inevitable at some point... Some K04's last 150k miles, some only make it 10k. Shit my buddies has 130k on it and mine has 100k, no issues.

The point everyone was making is if you're looking for budget power, a DP is not needed, get a testpipe emissions wise it's essentially no different than the CS DP except the stock cat will be less likely to fail emissions even with a TP.

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by Omega Actually, nobody said either @anavrinIV; mentioned it would start to lose oil past it's seals once you go DP - which is pretty much true, it'll be inevitable at some point... Some K04's last 150k miles, some only make it 10k. Shit my buddies has 130k on it and mine has 100k, no issues. The point everyone was making is if you're looking for budget power, a DP is not needed, get a testpipe emissions wise it's essentially no different than the CS DP except the stock cat will be less likely to fail emissions even with a TP.

Stock cat is that good? No shit?

[Gerbilo]

Originally Posted by Omega The point everyone was making is if you're looking for budget power, a DP is not needed, get a testpipe emissions wise it's essentially no different than the CS DP except the stock cat will be less likely to fail emissions even with a TP.

Thank you!

Also, if you spoke with CS about their full DP passing emissions, you could try asking them their thoughts, or if they've confirmed that the stock DP + Race pipe passes emissions. Again, I'd have to think it would, as the stock cat should be better for emissions than the aftermarket option in the long DP.

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by Gerbilo Thank you! Also, if you spoke with CS about their full DP passing emissions, you could try asking them their thoughts, or if they've confirmed that the stock DP + Race pipe passes emissions. Again, I'd have to think it would, as the stock cat should be better for emissions than the aftermarket option in the long DP.

That was in the email chain. They said they did not know, but they have at least a few people with long catted DPs that have passed here on conservative tunes.

Take that for what you will.

[MSP6]

The tune has nothing to do with passing emissions. If you have a functioning converter somewhere in your system, you are 99% going to pass a sniffer. You don;t have to go the cheapo route and gut a stock test/mid pipe. You could buy a nice looking, stainless piece from a vendor and have the clean look, with the same power potential, none of the hassle, the same chance at passing emissions AND a 15 minute solution if you don't pass. If you don't pass with the full DP you're looking at 10-12 hours removing and then reinstalling after your retest, plus driving around with a tune that doesn't fit your system sans DP for a few days, weeks until you swap it back in.

Going by the history of this site and people in general your still going to buy the Corksport full DP. Its a nice piece and you should have no issues with it. I believe you will pass the sniffer with no problems. It's just an expense and install that you simply don't have to incur.

[satisfied]

The tune would have a lot to do with passing if say at 0 load 3600 RPM (where we keep our revs during testing IIRC) I had a target AFR of 11.5. I'm positive that would absolutely cause issues. I don't know how fueling is tuned yet on this car, but on my miata I can tune it to pass without a cat or anything. 0 load 35kPa 3600 RPM tune target AFR to 18.1, assuming the engine survives, for instance.

Good points all around. After doing a dick ton of research on the stock cat, margin of passing from some WA friends, I have to agree with the forum. BSpecifically turbo outlet flange to DP I know is generally a pain in the ass unless it's V Band. Cost vs replacement expectation, cats ARE a maintenance item after all. I'm thinking the race pipe is a better option. Just two gaskets and 4 nuts/bolts. A little PB blaster and it should be easy.

Thanks for the advice.

[Omega]

Also for what it's worth if you have E85, that with stock TMIC/Stock Cat decent intake & test pipe will get you almost to full-bolt on power levels without spending shit tons of cash.

I'd still get a different TMIC just for turbo longevity above anything, that pressure drop sucks, but it won't give you a ton of performance on stock turbo if you're already using E.

[satisfied]

Oh I know man. We looked up e85 pumps the other day, there's 1 about 15 minutes away and the next 2 are an hour, an hour and a half respectively. Not realistic enough for a take to work vehicle.

[Gerbilo]

Originally Posted by satisfied I'm thinking the race pipe is a better option. Just two gaskets and 4 nuts/bolts. A little PB blaster and it should be easy.

It is easy, if I can do it, you surely can. A few weeks before I even committed to the RP, I was doing an oil change and thought I might pick one up, so I sprayed the nuts/bolts down with PB'laster then. Sprayed them again the day of install, while I was letting the car cool down. No issues at all, which was very surprising considering the car has lived it's whole life, six years, dealing with Chicago winters.

Which ever way you go, best of luck!

[Omega]

Originally Posted by satisfied Oh I know man. We looked up e85 pumps the other day, there's 1 about 15 minutes away and the next 2 are an hour, an hour and a half respectively. Not realistic enough for a take to work vehicle.

I drive mine to work on E85 every day lol - get a bunch of cans if you have to. My E85 station is 5 mins from my house though, but even then you have to fill up sometime. Although my commute is relatively short -- 9 miles. You won't get better bang for the buck power wise.

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by Omega I drive mine to work on E85 every day lol - get a bunch of cans if you have to. My E85 station is 5 mins from my house though, but even then you have to fill up sometime. Although my commute is relatively short -- 9 miles. You won't get better bang for the buck power wise.

Yeah, that's what the crazy broad said she'd do. It's too risky. I mean, if she leaves her purse at her sister's house, what are the odds she's always going to remember to keep a 100 mile supply of fuel stocked at all times? You know?

[Omega]

It's not like you can't switch to a pump tune......

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by Omega It's not like you can't switch to a pump tune......

We went with VT, don't wanna keep the tuning laptop in there at all times.

[anavrinIV]

PB blaster sucks monkey nuts in the penetrating oil world. Buy kroil. Be forever happy.

[Dommo14]

Originally Posted by satisfied Oh I know man. We looked up e85 pumps the other day, there's 1 about 15 minutes away and the next 2 are an hour, an hour and a half respectively. Not realistic enough for a take to work vehicle.

ok for cheap speed... Intake + test pipe + E85 + intercooler

I just passed emissions in GA with a catless DP... The guy tried to look for a cat on my car gave up and just marked me as having one, we don't do the sniffers though but they are supposed to do a visual inspection. Before my s4 i had those mods and was perfectly content. If you have an iPhone download the app "AltFuel", it shows E85 stations around... its not perfect but it got me out of a couple of jams.


as someone said before... if you are going E85.. invest in 2 5 gallon gas jugs...

ORRRRR instead of e85 there is always METH!

[Speedy955]

You can also dump methanol into the tank if you get in a jam

[broda]

Originally Posted by satisfied We went with VT, don't wanna keep the tuning laptop in there at all times.

You can always load it onto a cheap Windows tablet. That's what I did.

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by broda You can always load it onto a cheap Windows tablet. That's what I did.

I was wondering about this, I tried loading Tunerstudio into a Windows RT OS for the miata, and I ran into 1,000,000 compatibility issues. I have a friend who managed to work through them on a freaking chromebook, but it literally took him 3 months with his car's battery on a trickle while he tried to get connectivity out in the garage a few times a week.

So VT works on a windows RT equipped device just fine? Those surface non-pros are uber cheap.

[broda]

Originally Posted by satisfied I was wondering about this, I tried loading Tunerstudio into a Windows RT OS for the miata, and I ran into 1,000,000 compatibility issues. I have a friend who managed to work through them on a freaking chromebook, but it literally took him 3 months with his car's battery on a trickle while he tried to get connectivity out in the garage a few times a week. So VT works on a windows RT equipped device just fine? Those surface non-pros are uber cheap.

I'm not sure if RT is compatible or not even though it's technically Windows 8, kind of.

A Windows™ PC or laptop with a USB 2.0 port running Microsoft® Windows™ Vista/7/8/8.1/10 32 or 64 bit

I bought a Windows 10 tablet and had zero problems installing or using it.

[MS3Shadow]

Originally Posted by satisfied I was wondering about this, I tried loading Tunerstudio into a Windows RT OS for the miata, and I ran into 1,000,000 compatibility issues. I have a friend who managed to work through them on a freaking chromebook, but it literally took him 3 months with his car's battery on a trickle while he tried to get connectivity out in the garage a few times a week. So VT works on a windows RT equipped device just fine? Those surface non-pros are uber cheap.

Don't get a windows RT device, at least get a Surface Pro that has Windows 8/8.1/10. Windows RT is not Windows, it's basically mobile Windows. you can find cheap 7in tablet that has windows.

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by MS3Shadow Don't get a windows RT device, at least get a Surface Pro that has Windows 8/8.1/10. Windows RT is not Windows, it's basically mobile Windows. you can find cheap 7in tablet that has windows.

Well fuck. Yeah, budget's kind of tight right now. Can't find a surface pro for under $400.00 right now. I was hoping for a non-flash based memory device. I found a ton of the flash based windows 10 tablets/netbooks around $150-200 but the flash based memory is getting torn apart in reviews, specifically for reliability and randomly erasing things, so Ideally I would like a real SSD equipped device with real windows and just can't afford it at the moment. Soon enough though.

[satisfied]

Cliff's notes for learning ECU time (20 miles according to VT) and test run.
test run was boring, no abnormalities, nothing seemed to change between learning and testing...

Max boost achieved 6.1 PSI 1st, 10.3 PSI 2nd, 16.9 PSI 3rd, 20 PSI 4th

Knock events were 1, 2.8 degrees retard in third gear at 12.2 PSI, dropped my AFR to 9.81 at this time. I'm not sure if the knock caused an ultra rich condition or if it fuel dumps as a response...

BAT average was 90 degrees, max was 149 at a stoplight

Ambient was 62 degrees, IAT was 62.2 average

CLTs were between 180-189

AFR is consistently 14.7 if no boost. It hangs onto 14.7 for too long in my opinion. Even under mild boost, 4-7 PSI it will hang onto 14.7 until 3200 RPM...

During boost AFR climbs naturally from 14.7 until 3200 to 10.81 on average during max boost. I wish it was more like... 14.7 until 2500 then climbing naturally to 11.3, but without HPFP internals and being too new to this system I don't want to make those adjustments.

Also, ordered the OBX test pipe for max savings on steel piping.

[Dommo14]

was traction control on when you did this? did you hit a bump in the road or anything?

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by Dommo14 was traction control on when you did this? did you hit a bump in the road or anything?

Yes, and quite possibly yes. How does that affect my logs? Should I only log with TCS off?

[Dommo14]

hmm yeah tc & swas dump fuel to cut power(if im correct)... most times i turn that shit off when im driving around...

[satisfied]

Originally Posted by Dommo14 hmm yeah tc & swas dump fuel to cut power(if im correct)... most times i turn that shit off when im driving around...

We usually do as well. I didn't think it would affect anything while trying to get an onramp dyno run in. I'll keep that in mind, thank you!

[satisfied]

The old HPFP internals and the HPFP itself was FULL of sticky black carbon residue...

Is this due to crankcase fumes/oil or something else? 47000 on the Odometer.

Really want to get a catchcan as I'm sure the valves are probably much worse due to the EGR.

[Dommo14]

yeah, I just installed a catch can on saturday. and i unpluged my EGR. Im sure that is the the same as a delete.... I cant really delete it because of emissions.. .

[satisfied]

Did you get Damond racing? It's just a block off plate for both the EGR tube outlet and the inlet on the manifold, right?

Does it throw a CEL?

Which catchcan did you order?

[Dommo14]

yeah I picked up a DM catch can.. And I simply unplugged my EGR.. yes it will throw a CEL but i turned it off in ATR. My county gives you one not ready, which is my catless dp code.. so I have to keep the EGR unplugged so I can easily plug it in when I do emissions...