valve guides? valve seal? valve stem? WHAT IS BLOWN?!?!?!

[eroler1]

hi, im a noob
since its Christmas im wearing my sweater, its flame proof and bashproof.
anyways guys before i rebuild my head can i ask what are you guys opinion about this, is it valve guides? valve seals? or valve stem

history, back on december 2015 my engine was rebuild by a local shop here in hawaii "snyders machine shop" they are actaully reputable and been in business for almost 50 years or so. they built drag cars since the other island of hawaii have a drag strip, they actaully have their own "funny drag car"
anyways my build was consist of:
88m wiseco OTS piston
manley rods
Arps headstuds (was change on speedperformance CA625+ after 3 months of break in)
arp mainstuds
bsd delete (oil feed for the balance shaft was block by them i think they welded the hole)
edge autosport gasket kit stage one rebuild kit
and thats pretty much it,
head is bone stock but shop cleaned it and put it back together with the new valve seals form the gasket kit. valves stem and valve guides was reused.
also side note they used a 2006 mazda 3 guide for my head specs car is 2012 mazdaspeed (wtf)
engine was broken in with k04 and after that i moved to pte 6062 i was getting tuned by PDT when i started having this symptoms:
alot of blue smoke on cold start
oil consumption (cant tell how much since i dont use the car often but noticble)
alot of blue smoke on city driving (stop and go)
no smoke on wot tho.
at first i thought my engine blew up again so we did compression test and its 183 across the board so i was like
i cant do leak down test since local autoparts here dont rent it and shops here are just ripoffs.
my main culprit for this is i was getting tune on a wrong setup of my PCV system
i have the RP dual port pcv by rpmstore and one should have a pcv and check valve and another one have a check valve only and the valve cover breather port is VTA but no check valve but i put a check valve on that so i think i choke the engine too much on pressure that made my valve guides and seal blew up? (was copying perm tuning pcv notes) but i accidentally add check valve on that valve cover breather, so after getting my 3rd revision on pump gas i started having this problem.
now im getting ready to fix it,
my plan is to get the 55lbs crower spring/retainer, new OEM valve seals and trynna see if the super tech valve guide works with oem valves if my valves isnt shot yet. all will be purchased on speedperformance.
also is there a way to NOT remove the head on block when changing the valveseals? i dont wanna buy another head gasket and another set of headstuds. we also pulling out the motor too for this and redo some stuff. thanks guys, i saw the head seal removal instruction here and i will show it to the shop

[g00s3y]

They used an engine guide for a non turbo engine/car, to put together an engine for a turbo car?

And you say they are reputable?

[eroler1]

Thanks for the reply sir.
Im not 100% sure but when they gave me the receipt it says 06 Mazda even tho they wrote ok their notes 2012 mazdaspeed. And on my break ins it never smoke only after 2 months on precision when I started having this smoking issue. And my theory is it's prolly the wrong pcv plumbing setup.

[eroler1]

Here's the receipt I got from them
It says Mazda speed turbo and it says 22 psi because they asked me how much psi I'm gonna run because they have to adjust something on the head (maybe that's the problem now?)

[eroler1]

bump...

[Vitamin M]

i really believe before you do anything you should find a way to do a leak down test... it will tell you alot more. Blue smoke and 180 compression points to your valve seals in my opinion..


Its hard to say what is happening without more tests.

[eroler1]

Thanks for the reply sir, if only autozone or oreilly rent it would be easier, when I did my research my sysmptons all said its valve guide/seals but it's a fresh seals so maybe adjustment issue?

[eroler1]

I just did a leak down test and cylinder 1 which is closest to oil filler cap have a 2% leak regulated pressure is 90 and the cylinder 1 is 87, cylinder 3-4(near the hpfp) have 5psi on cylinder tho.
It basically don't hold pressure st this point and we didn't even tried cylinder 2

[eroler1]

Also did a compression test with the leak down, 183 across but that damn leak down test is like 90% leak and prolly one cylinder one hold pressure the rest is like a big hole, I can hear it heasing inside intake manifold too
All test was done with engine warm (150+ degrees on aceesport)

[frothy]

You turned the crank so that cylinders 3 and 4 were at TDC before testing I presume, correct?

[eroler1]

Yes sir that's AFAIK tho I was using the screw drivier to tell if the piston is up, I put the cylinder one to tdc using the tooth that was marked as tdc by the machine shop then u put the screw driver on cylinder 1 and mark it to use it on other cylinders and yes every test in on tdc sir. I'm really confused right now, I was thinking it's the valve seals because of smoke issue whenever I start it up and when driving in traffic or especially when going to stop I blow a lot of smoke but then my cylinders can't even go past 10psi on leak down test

[mituc]

If the oil consumption and blue smoke started to happen after you fitted the larger turbo there's a chance that one is getting a bit too much oil and it pours into the exhaust. Or it has some loose seals. I'm saying this because it's easier to pull the downpipe and turbo and inspect the exhaust side of it rather than pulling the head (because I'm not sure you can see anything if you just pull the valve cover).

If you want stiffer valve springs I'd go for the Crower 65lb, not the 55lb. I'm not even sure SP63 sells any 55lb springs, I guess you can find some 55lb springs from Supertech at Edge. I have the 65lb springs from SP63 but I'm still during the break-in period so I can't give you any feedback as I didn't go above 6000rpm or 18PSI just yet, but as far as I can tell the engine performs pretty much like with the stock springs during normal driving.

As a side note I think the CA625+ studs are reusable if you undo everything gently when you pull the head.

[eroler1]

Thank you very much sir, thanks for the input about the turbo I also thought about it but my common sense strike me since if it smokes on start up then the oil on turbo will take time to burn since it's still cold although my smoke starts after 20-30 seconds of start up and it really smoke on deceleration, idk if the my pte6062 is shot but it's brand new and the smoke started after like 2000 mile or even less too

Sorry for type I was talking about the 65 crower at speedperf sorry

[mituc]

Yeah, 20-30 seconds after a cold start = valve seals most probably. Make sure you use OEM seals, not OEM equivalent.

[eroler1]

Hes sir, what really suck is it's not even a year for that new seals since afaik the machine shop used he new seal on the gasket set I gave them but idk how my deal went bad hat fast? Maybe it have something to do when I did a valve cleaning with a brush and soaking the whole runner with b12 Chem while tdc

It's the gasket set from edge auto,

[mituc]

The gasket set from edge contains OEM seals. I know that because when I bought the seals individually from another reputable web store I've got some more elastic/soft/rubbery seals which initially slid tighter on the valves but when I pulled the motor 2 months ago to rebuild it those seals were pretty loose (still soft and very elastic though) and the valves were covered in a thin layer of burnt oil (required a lot of time to brush that off). I have a catalytic converter so I didn't see any smoke of any kind in any situation, but I could smell the burnt dinosaurs quite well.

So in your case because most probably you have OEM seals in our engine, there's a chance you pushed the engine quite a bit during the tuning process, with a lot of fuel and boost, but with very low timing (like there's in the factory tables for high load, like 1.8 or more, at high RPMs, 5500 or more) and that burnt the valve seals because the mixture was still burning into the exhaust.

Anyway, on your way to pulling the head you'll have to pull the manifolds and turbo first, so check the turbo as well, as new units can fail as well.

[eroler1]

Yes sir I'm very thank full for your advice I will try to pull the vband tomorrow, and you might be right in pushing the car too hard on tuning prowess it started smoking after my 3rd revision on pump gas, and there's was also an incident that my maf sensor broke and I have to drive the car for 13 miles really stupid but didn't expect it, I remember I saw 29afr on idle so I have to give it a gas while stop or on traffic at that time,

[eroler1]

Also if I remove both cams then the tension on the spring and valve will be eliminate and the valve will close right? Even tho it's not tdc, I'm planning to remove the cams and doing leak down test again, I still can't understand what is causing 95% leakage waiter I'm losing a valve or something there

[Polish_Eagle]

Originally Posted by mituc If the oil consumption and blue smoke started to happen after you fitted the larger turbo there's a chance that one is getting a bit too much oil and it pours into the exhaust. Or it has some loose seals. I'm saying this because it's easier to pull the downpipe and turbo and inspect the exhaust side of it rather than pulling the head (because I'm not sure you can see anything if you just pull the valve cover). If you want stiffer valve springs I'd go for the Crower 65lb, not the 55lb. I'm not even sure SP63 sells any 55lb springs, I guess you can find some 55lb springs from Supertech at Edge. I have the 65lb springs from SP63 but I'm still during the break-in period so I can't give you any feedback as I didn't go above 6000rpm or 18PSI just yet, but as far as I can tell the engine performs pretty much like with the stock springs during normal driving. As a side note I think the CA625+ studs are reusable if you undo everything gently when you pull the head.

Another possible issue could be that the crankcase is getting pressurized and the turbo can't drain oil (it's gravity drain). Once the oil can't drain, it needs to go somewhere and usually goes into the compressor housing which then gets blown into the intercooler and intake manifold (currently happening to me due to worn rings).

[eroler1]

That happened to me before I rebuild my motor, I think I stayed too much on redline when we doing roll race then boom

[Tokay444]

Before anything else, you need to do a proper leak test. If you're leaking 90% in cylinders 3 and 4, you have a huge problem, or you didn't test right. Where was the leak in those cylinders?

[eroler1]

It sound like the air is escaping thru intake, cuz I can hear it on intake manifold, maybe the cylinder is not fully close? I'll try removing the cams while tdc too maybe it'll help

[MD1032]

No need to remove the cams. Just make sure the cam lobes are on the base circle for the cylinder you're trying to test. Also check valve lash while you're in there...can't hurt.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[eroler1]

I'll try my best checking the lash, I didn't try removing the valve cover when I did it last time, and when I tested cylinder for and it didn't hold pressure I tried going to cylinder 1 and it did hold pressure so I know I'm doing it properly, but the cylinders that doesn't hold air must have a big hole bigger than my asshole

[MD1032]

You could have a burnt intake valve... That would suck.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[eroler1]

I'm thinking something is wrong with my valves although when I giggle burnt valve it never said smoke on start up, but I might have broken seals, guides and burnt valve all at one,

Google*

[SpoolinSpeed3..757]

TDC only ensures that cylinder 1 is at top dead center. Other valves will be open at this time. If you just turn the crank 1 time to TDC and try to test all the cylinders(which is what it sounds like reading through here)you are going to get cylinder leakage

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[eroler1]

So removing the cams will help the seal right? I read hat somewhere place before I think the thread on media blasting cleaning the valves

[MD1032]

No. When the cam lobes are on the base circle for each cylinder by definition there should be a distance between the base circle and the lifter...defined as the valve lash.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[eroler1]

Damn, now I'm more confuse on how to do the leak down test properly

[eroler1]

Any tips on how can I make the rest of the cylinder valve seal properly? I mean 95%leakage sound really like the air is being sent to portal or something

[frothy]

I'd do another leakage test. I don't think you did it right. From the response to my earlier question, it sounds as though you did get cylinders 3 and 4 to TDC, but i'm guessing you were on the exhaust stroke rather than the compression stroke.

Place a paper towel, tissue, or something similar over/in the spark plug hole of the cylinder you want to test and then turn the crank by hand. Whatever you used should blow out of the hole when on the compression stroke. Then insert your screwdriver into the spark plug hole and slowly turn the crank until you're at TDC.

Also, be aware that the pressure from your air compressor can potentially turn the engine. Make sure your e-brake is engaged (obviously), but put the car in 6th gear should you feel the need for a little extra insurance that nothing shifts.

[eroler1]

Thanks I will try that asap