E85 Remedy with HPFP Hardware modifications

[littleloogy]

Well it is officially time for the next phase in our seemingly ever-going E85 project. This thread is going to focus mainly on hardware solutions.

Here are the possible hardware fixes I have been contemplating. Please feel free to suggest ideas; I will add them to the list if I feel that they are a plausible solution that I am willing to attempt.

1.)Affix a spring directly to the Solenoid needle and to the push button assembly
2.)Mill out our metal fastener in the HPFP and install an oil scraper and PTFE shaft seals
3.)Mill Spill valve Collar and install a PTFE Washer
4.)Route the bleed off Fuel back to tank for cooler operation

I do not have a lot of spare time on my hands, so progress on these projects may be slower then we all would like to see. Oh well,


Please note that I am investing a lot of my own time and money on this project and these pumps are not cheap! Donations to the site are a great way to show your appreciation. I am also risking my daily driver to preform these tests, so I will make sure everything is well thought out and tested before anything is installed.

[Tokay444]

I have no e85 access, but it like were this is going.

[littleloogy]

1.)Affix a spring directly to the Solenoid needle and to the push button assembly
Here is some pictures of the springs being crimped to the Solenoid and to the push button needle





Theoretically speaking...
As the solenoid energizes it will have enough power to pull the needle up, and when it is not energized it will push it back down regardless of gummy residue.

I installed this modified SV assembly in my pump last week and it holds pressure fine. I have had 178 Miles of sticky free operation thus far. and I am feeling pretty good about this simple yet affective Modification.

Thoughts or Comments?

[sidekick]

How much ethanol are you running with the modified spill valve?

[Bratschist]

I know you are also working on fixing the cause of the problem, e85 in the pump, but do you think that if that is unattainable, the spring/solenoid you have already done will be enough to allow us to use full e?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by sidekick How much ethanol are you running with the modified spill valve?

100%... Broke 200 miles on tonights drive.

Edit: Well, whatever % ethanol winter E85 is here in our own sunny happy cow California.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Bratschist I know you are also working on fixing the cause of the problem, e85 in the pump, but do you think that if that is unattainable, the spring/solenoid you have already done will be enough to allow us to use full e? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I ask myself everyday. This simple fix seems to be working for now. however, I foresee the gummy substance building up over time. I do not know how it will affect the reaction time of the solenoid. I have about 9 gallons of straight E through the pump thus far, and I just topped off my tank again this evening.

[Enki]

For #1 , again I don't personally think you really need to affix the spring to the top part of the solenoid, just the spring to the needle should suffice; the magnetic force should yank that fucker right up anyways.

As for the button, the spill valve spring mod should be plenty, considering it's probably damn close to 10x the force of the stock spring.

Otherwise, fingers are crossed.

[sidekick]

I'd say this is the most headway anyone has made toward running full ethanol in a while, I'm very interested to see how this goes. Full ethanol on stock turbo = win.

[Bratschist]

Originally Posted by littleloogy This is what I ask myself everyday. This simple fix seems to be working for now. however, I foresee the gummy substance building up over time. I do not know how it will affect the reaction time of the solenoid. I have about 9 gallons of straight E through the pump thus far, and I just topped off my tank again this evening.

Right, my thoughts too. I figured that if left unchecked the black thingy would build up until a point of fuck up. But the other question is how much can it build up anyways? Do you see what I see? Kind of following what Enki said, the movement of the parts might just clear it if it builds passed a point and flush that gunk down. Not that it would be ideal, but I'm just trying to visualize what would follow. I'm also hoping for a full solution, but if that is not possible, you may already have found the next best thing


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[sidekick]

Originally Posted by Bratschist Right, my thoughts too. I figured that if left unchecked the black thingy would build up until a point of fuck up. But the other question is how much can it build up anyways? Do you see what I see? Kind of following what Enki said, the movement of the parts might just clear it if it builds passed a point and flush that gunk down. Not that it would be ideal, but I'm just trying to visualize what would follow. I'm also hoping for a full solution, but if that is not possible, you may already have found the next best thing Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's possible this could get us at least to the point where we can run E85 and simply add some naphtha to the tank once in a while to clean the build up. Only time will tell. Running almost a full tanks worth of pure E85 is a pretty big step forward.

[Enki]

Originally Posted by Bratschist ...the movement of the parts might just clear it if it builds passed a point and flush that gunk down...

Unfortunately, black death will still be an issue unless a specific brand/type of oil prevents that. If it doesn't, then pump cleanings or a seal change in the retention nut will be the end all fix.

Originally Posted by sidekick It's possible this could get us at least to the point where we can run E85 and simply add some naphtha to the tank once in a while to clean the build up. Only time will tell. Running almost a full tanks worth of pure E85 is a pretty big step forward.

I still think this will depend on oil. At one point, I had less than a quarter tank of E and dumped in not only a full bottle of MMO, but also a gallon (yes a full fucking gallon) of Naphtha into the tank; no dice with T6.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Enki For #1 , again I don't personally think you really need to affix the spring to the top part of the solenoid, just the spring to the needle should suffice; the magnetic force should yank that fucker right up anyways. As for the button, the spill valve spring mod should be plenty, considering it's probably damn close to 10x the force of the stock spring. Otherwise, fingers are crossed.

Yes I agree, I will start modding another spill valve with the same mod, except I will not be attaching the spring to the solenoid. I will also be securing the spring to the needle in a more permanent manor. But I want to run another 200miles or until it sticks before changing the spill valve out.


Sent while not cleaning my spill valve anymore...

[phate]

Originally Posted by sidekick It's possible this could get us at least to the point where we can run E85 and simply add some naphtha to the tank once in a while to clean the build up. Only time will tell. Running almost a full tanks worth of pure E85 is a pretty big step forward.

Back in the day, how long I could go on full E85 before it would gum up and drop pressure could vary from 10 miles to thousands. I'd give it a long while before considering anything is conclusive.

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by phate Back in the day, how long I could go on full E85 before it would gum up and drop pressure could vary from 10 miles to thousands. I'd give it a long while before considering anything is conclusive.

I could not agree more. This is why I have other goals for the pump then just the needle mod.

[sidekick]

Originally Posted by phate Back in the day, how long I could go on full E85 before it would gum up and drop pressure could vary from 10 miles to thousands. I'd give it a long while before considering anything is conclusive.

Damn, I always thought that it pretty much gummed up within the first few miles of a tank with full E.

[Enki]

Nah that was just my terrible luck. LOL

[SparkySparks]

Really looking forward to results from this. I've been running a low 35% mix and Pennzoil Platinum to limit any gunking along with switching back to 93 every 6 months for about a month. No clue if that actually does anything but it allows me to make sure my 93 tune is still dialed in for if I ever have to switch due to lack of E.

Would love to be able to just fill up with E and be done with mixes. Keep up the good work!

[Koke382]

Subbed for results. I would love to just fill 100% someday.

If only vendors were working ona solution like you are. Maybe u can open their eyes and together find a solution. Good luck and I mean it. The whole forum is watching no pressure lol jk.



sent from my peepee

[abiezerf]

Originally Posted by Koke382 Subbed for results. I would love to just fill 100% someday. If only vendors were working ona solution like you are. Maybe u can open their eyes and together find a solution. Good luck and I mean it. The whole forum is watching no pressure lol jk. sent from my peepee

I agree with this guy. Some of our major vendors should look into this. They have more time and R&D money available, and this would definitely sell.

@CorkSport;
@www.cp-e.com;
@jbarone;

Just to name a few...

[Koke382]

Cpe says "2 weeks"

sent from my peepee

Lol

sent from my peepee

[littleloogy]

Well I guess if my work is not good enough for you. You can all wait for the "trusted vendors" to come up with a fix. In the meantime I'll keep my finding to myself. I'm not going to let vendors get rich off someone else's ideas.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

[sidekick]

Yea, please don't let CP-E touch your idea... They will tell us they have the solution and make us wait two years to even give us any info on it. Then it will be overpriced and made by another company anyways...

[Gr8Speed]

Yeah if you're doing the work, taking all the risk, and sharing your findings with us why should a vendor take the profits and the credit?

[Koke382]

I think u got my post mixed up. I said good luck as in im really hopping for u to find a fix. I also said I wish vendors were looking for a fix like u OR WITH YOU along side because they have moneyz and time. Didnt say that u should not try to find a fix or that your fix is not as food as a vendors fix. I rather find cheaper solutions than to pay a company.



@Gr8Speed; no one said anything about taking credit. But imagine if he was to find a fix and gets a contract with a vendor for his design? Then he would be able to make money off his solution. Unless he wants to mass produce this solution because I sure damn well know a big group of people willing to pay for a part to be able to run 100% e85 lol.

Good luck op. I will be waiting for a solution to this since I want to run 100% like I said before.

sent from my peepee

[abiezerf]

Originally Posted by Koke382 I think u got my post mixed up. I said good luck as in im really hopping for u to find a fix. I also said I wish vendors were looking for a fix like u OR WITH YOU along side because they have moneyz and time. Didnt say that u should not try to find a fix or that your fix is not as food as a vendors fix. I rather find cheaper solutions than to pay a company. @Gr8Speed; no one said anything about taking credit. But imagine if he was to find a fix and gets a contract with a vendor for his design? Then he would be able to make money off his solution. Unless he wants to mass produce this solution because I sure damn well know a big group of people willing to pay for a part to be able to run 100% e85 lol. Good luck op. I will be waiting for a solution to this since I want to run 100% like I said before. sent from my peepee

This guy ^^ . That is what I meant. Vendors need to work with members like this guy to get things going. Unless you have a big money pit and a LOT of time, it will be hard to mass produce ANY solution. Either way, all the props will go to @littleloogy; as he is the mastermind figuring this out.

[Koke382]

Yup. Were all rooting for u bro.

sent from my peepee

[littleloogy]

I guess its about time to post up some logs. The first one is my start up before my drive last night Nothing to exciting. The second is doing an on ramp to a freeway at the 200 mile mark. Nothing to report as of yet which is a good thing.

SVM Start up 178 miles.csv

SVM 200 mile Pressure test.csv

By the way everyone, I am not in this for the money. I am doing this to better our cars and expand our knowledge on this platform. I cannot take credit for anything really. This has been a team effort since @phate;'s thread about flow issues, to @Enki;'s thread about e85 and oil. Any company would have to have a big set of balls to steal an idea that MSF Came up with, then turn around and try to market that idea.

[Enki]

So far as I know, the spill valve mod detailed in this thread is your idea; I daresay simpler and more elegant than my own regarding spill valve modding.

Credit where credit is due dude.

[Koke382]

That looks good and doesnt seem to have any pressure loss at all. Im hopping it stays that way. What kind of oil are you running again?

sent from my peepee

[PapaSmurf]

Good luck!

Subbed


Sent from your girlfriends tapabedroom

[Bratschist]

I honestly think you have nothing to worry about. US laws regarding copyright on intellectual property is quite broad for this reason. Since there is proof (threads on this forum) and witnesses (we) to support that you are the one to credit this idea to, companies not only have to have big cojones but also money to spend with lawyers bc a lawsuit is plausible, possible, probable, and so on. As for you not looking for money, props to you. If only more people in the world took that stand. Yes, i do agree that some company should have done this, not bc they would do it better but bc that's how it's always been: they make, we buy. But as I said, should have done, as in a long time ago. If they chose not to do it now it is our (yours littleloogy actually) turn.

Keep up the great job, at your own pace, in peace. We're all rooting for you. Cheers


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[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Koke382 That looks good and doesnt seem to have any pressure loss at all. Im hopping it stays that way. What kind of oil are you running again? sent from my peepee

I have been on Pennzoil Ultra since day one. I change it religiously every 3,000 miles.

Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

[Koke382]

Originally Posted by littleloogy I have been on Pennzoil Ultra since day one. I change it religiously every 3,000 miles. Sent while cleaning my spill valve again...

Good to know. I use the same oil. That and mobil one.

sent from my peepee

[snailD]

Originally Posted by Koke382 Good to know. I use the same oil. That and mobil one. sent from my peepee

ditch the mobil 1 and just use pennzoil

[littleloogy]

Here is a peek of progress towards the scraper project. This is the oil scraper I am thinking about using to scrape the oil off the piston. I am using the same design I used when I sealed my RC car shocks. O-rings on both sides, scraper in the middle.

[Koke382]

Originally Posted by snailD ditch the mobil 1 and just use pennzoil

Fo sho. Guess I won't be using that walmart shit people rave about. Whats it called again?

sent from my peepee

[littleloogy]

Originally Posted by Koke382 Fo sho. Guess I won't be using that walmart shit people rave about. Whats it called again? sent from my peepee

I can understand why people like the Walmart oil, (Rotella) its cheap! My oil changes cost me $15 for a K&N filter and another 60 Washingtons for the oil. Also, an additional $25 for Blackstone analysis report. To me, it is a small price to pay, for piece of mind. Especially with the abuse my engine has seen.

[udntknw]

Have you been to apr's site (company cpe uses for pumps)? They have an exploded diagram as a picture somewhere in the main pages that shows what looks like o rings and scrapers. I thought I also read somewhere in the many threads here that the cp-e pumps seem handle e85 better. Any known truth to that?

Just tapa it in.

[2011speed]

Anyone have gunk issues with 5050?