The Guardian Angel for your motor

[Lex]

Some of you may know this - but I own a small company where we build tuning solutions. Our focus so far has been with older vehicles and Megasquirt - the name is Stratified Automotive Controls. You can check out the site if you like at Stratified Automotive Controls.

When Joe (FORZDA) blew his motor due to a boost spike while tuning, I came up with an idea for a product that I feel can benefit the MS community. We built a prototype and are testing on the MS3 and I want to test the waters before going with a full on production.

The Guardian Angel is an electromechanical device that prevents boost spikes or uncontrolled boost. It attaches to the BOV, has a threshold that you set (up to 44psi) and will release the BOV if you go above that threshold. It resets itself automatically once the boost has left the "danger zone."

There are several nice things about this:
- This will save your butt from all kinds of boost spikes and uncontrolled boost - saving your motor in the process. We know boost spikes cause detonation and detonation pops motors.
- Wastegate mechanical failures such as popped off lines are averted
- Boost controller failure
- Tuning failures or distractions
- Perfect for tuning with the AP where changes are not in real time or when E-tuning
- Cold temps causing boost spikes etc
- This will work with stock and aftermarket valves
- If you're running a recirculating valve, the cut will be a soft one compared to the stock spark/fuel cut. So it won't be like hitting a wall which is nice if you're in the middle of passing or merging.
- There will be an LED that lets you know the system has been tripped so you don't sit there over-spinning the turbo.
- The valve will react very quickly - much quicker than our OEM cut does - especially since most of us set load cut much too high to help in the event of a spike

Essentially, I can pull the wastegate line off my super fast spooling K04, floor it, and this will save my butt and motor. Video of this coming up ... for now here's a short log showing how the car won't make more than 8psi at 80% wastegate duty cycle when the Guardian Angel is set to 8psi.



EDIT: Here's a short and not so exciting video

Don't mind the wires, that's just temporary for testing purposes.

The log above is from one of these pulls. I hit the threshold, it holds the limit (you can hear the turbo spooling), and I get off the throttle so the device is reset (LED goes off).

Notice how smoothly the car limits boost, my camera guy in the back moves around more because of the bumps in the road. No backfires or harsh cuts.

** I realize you don't see the boost gauge this is why I included the log **

#x202aGuardian Angel Prototype Road Test 2&#x202c‏" target="_blank">YouTube - &#x202aGuardian Angel Prototype Road Test 2&#x202c‏

#x202aGuardian Angel Prototype Road Test 2&#x202c‏" target="_blank">YouTube - &#x202aGuardian Angel Prototype Road Test 2&#x202c‏

Who is interested in a "save my ass, I fucked up, but at least it won't be a fail" device like this? Comments welcome and appreciated. If we go into production and offer it here, we'll setup vendorship as needed.

[PunjabiPlaya]

subbed. looks really interesting. I'll come back when in a better state of mind.

[Speed3eak]

Subbed, very interested.

I'd also like something that cuts throttle when you see over 2* of knock for more than a few seconds.

edit: but that could be achieved via tuning much more easily.

[SRTie4k]

Attaches to which BOV? A lot of them have different designs, so would it only work on a specific model?

[Z-Indy]

Originally Posted by Speed3eak Subbed, very interested. I'd also like something that cuts throttle when you see over 2* of knock for more than a few seconds. edit: but that could be achieved via tuning much more easily.

My car would have throttle cut all the time while I'm cruising around in 3rd or 4th gear if I had something like that.

Now if it only cut throttle if throttle was wide open... that would potentially be useful.

[bova]

obviously it is probably inline on the vacuum line that attaches to the bypass valve so it can be used with any.

[TRex]

very intereseted

glad you thought about recirc for those that have the stock system or are still using recirc with an aftermarket system

i see it as just bpv to dump more when your current one cant react fast enough or cant dump enough

[kmac]

U sir are an innovator

[superskaterxes]

well done lex, cant wait to see more results!

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by Lex Who is interested in a "save my ass, I fucked up, but at least it won't be a fail" device like this? Comments welcome and appreciated. If we go into production and offer it here, we'll setup vendorship as needed.

Subbed for pricing...

[retrobmx63]

Originally Posted by Lex The Guardian Angel is an electromechanical device that prevents boost spikes or uncontrolled boost. It attaches to the BOV, has a threshold that you set (up to 44psi) and will release the BOV if you go above that threshold. It resets itself automatically once the boost has left the "danger zone."

A clarification question Lex. So let's say for example you only run 15-18psi, but you constantly spike to 21 psi after shifts. I install a Guardian Angel and set the threshold to idk, 20psi. So as I shift and approach 21psi, the Guardian Angel triggers my BPV to release pressure.

Does this mean I effectively cannot accelerate with boost anymore? Or is that once enough pressure is lost my BPV closes again and I resume rebuild pressure pretty quickly/seamlessly?

Is this example too minor? Or is this device really for devastating boost spikes that we should lift our foot and stop accelerating altogether?

[ridenfish39]

Great idea!

Subbed for pricing also......

[JacksonMS30]

Very interested in this. Are you gonna market it to other platforms as well?

[Nazarite]

So Lex, BT application question here. Will this prevent boost creep running BT's IWG? Because that could be a huge answer to prayer for a lot of guys here, and would definitely nudge me towards that route again.

[bova]

i dont think it will prevent the boost creep but it will prevent it from going over what ever psi level you don't want it to creep over

[Nazarite]

Originally Posted by bova80 i dont think it will prevent the boost creep but it will prevent it from going over what ever psi level you don't want it to creep over

That's what I meant, thanks for clarifying.

[dizzydtrain]

Originally Posted by Nazarite That's what I meant, thanks for clarifying.

Interested as well. Subd

[Ziggo]

Great idea/product. Subbing.

[trf5000]

Subbed, as I want this!

[DaleNixon]

Man if I still had my MS3 I'd be all over this!

[speedypollard]

Great idea...wish I woulda had this on my last Evo which blew up cause the tuner let the boost spike to 36psi on the dyno!

[vdgmcool]

Very Interested!! Subbed

[Lex]

Woah, lots of responses - thanks for this guys. Here's some clarification.

This *can* be used to control boost but you wouldn't want to use it as a boost controller in the long term since the turbo will work harder than it has to. It is a safety device, a safety net that will guard against mechanical, electrical and tuning issues should they get out of hand.

I will be posting a short video here in a few minutes in my MS3. You will see that once ~10psi (it was actually 8) is hit in any gear, boost won't go beyond this. Because my BOV is recirculating to the intake, the transition will be smooth and as you can see in the graph above the AFRs are maintained and safe. No harsh fuel and spark cuts.

If your BOV vents to atmosphere, it will still work but it will be more abrupt as the AFRs get richer since already metered air is escaping. This is what happens when you shift with an atm BOV anyways.

When setting this you want to experiment a little and set it above any "normal spikes" you're likely to see. So if you spike to 21psi, set it to around 23, or just a notch above your normal spike level. You can just do a few pulls and set this via the LED.

I want to set this up that once it's tripped, it will reset itself once the car is in vacuum once again.

Depending on how much air your turbo can push, once its tripped, you may see a drecrease in boost or boost staying the same. In any case, that boost spike will be stopped dead.

We plan to make this available for other platforms as well but want to start on the MS3 first because it is a prime example where fast turbo spool and spikes has caused the Boom Boom.

[fywdyl]

This is awesome, def interested.

[Lex]

Ok here's a short video of this in action. Don't mind the wires, that's just temporary for testing purposes.

The log in the OP is from one of these pulls. I hit the threshold, it holds the limit (you can hear the turbo spooling), and I get off the throttle so the device is reset (LED goes off).

Notice how smoothly the car limits boost, my camera guy in the back moves around more because of the bumps in the road. No backfires or harsh cuts.

** I realize you don't see the boost gauge this is why I included the log **

YouTube - ‪Guardian Angel Prototype Road Test 2‬‏

YouTube - ‪Guardian Angel Prototype Road Test 2‬‏

[DaleNixon]

Wow I finally get to see what Lex looks like!

[SofaKingAwesome]

Originally Posted by DaleNixon Wow I finally get to see what Lex looks like!

Surprisingly, he's not a muscular kitten. Subbed for progress!

[Nitr0EngiE]

wow such an awesome idea and sounds really simplistic should not cost very much at all.

are you guys gonna test this with actual higher psi levels like upwards to 30 psi and see if all the different BOV can vent enough to be safe with all turbo setups, and if someone has a SSQV BOV aren't those much more restrictive and flow less ?

[Fobio]

great idea, esp for guys who are going to BT and dealing with boost control issues...I'd like to help distribute this in Eastern Canada!

[Lex]

Well there's certainly enough support from what I can see here that we'll go ahead, finalize testing and development, and get a product out the door. I will update here with progress.

Fobio, I'll be in touch once we've got some units on hand. At that point we'll set up vendorship here as well. I've got another couple of ideas for the MS market

[BlueStreak]

Is there a way to modify/add to this unit to cut boost if meth stops spraying? A simple voltage checker at the pump, perhaps?

That would be awesome.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak Is there a way to modify/add to this unit to cut boost if meth stops spraying? A simple voltage checker at the pump, perhaps? That would be awesome.

Already working on an integration with a WMI or NOS system that has a failsafe output.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by Lex Already working on an integration with a WMI or NOS system that has a failsafe output.

Would buy this combo in a heart beat!

[Dano]

Originally Posted by Lex Already working on an integration with a WMI or NOS system that has a failsafe output.

I actually quit using my actual FS boost cut sol due to the fact it slowed spoolup to much. I now simply rely on the FS controller to power my lights in the dash. Big red light comes on = lift bitch! hahah

This would be a great integration option for the guardian!

There are actually at least two types of output on FS controllers. One provides a 12v signal at fault and the other [mine] provides a 12v signal UNTIL there is a fault.

You would need to have inputs for both types or just use an SPDT relay, which is what I do to trigger my red light when 12v signal is lost. I am sure there are other more elegant solutions to this.

[TRex]

pics of implementation?

or worried about thieves?

patten this shit yo....

[Lex]

Originally Posted by TRex pics of implementation? or worried about thieves? patten this shit yo....

Nah, not too worried about thieves, it's just messy and strapped on with a bungy cord inside the engine bay. Not much to look at for now.

[AZSPEED3]

Awesome news, thanks Lex. Can't wait to see more development and the final product.

[wankular]

Great idea.

Is it going to come with a red beret?

[themytb]

subbed for pricing, I want it

[maxed_out_saloon]

this is an awesome idea. cant wait for the final product to be out