New Product GI: How much is a WMI failsafe worth to you?

[Lex]

Guys and Gals,

WMI in these cars is a fact of life - whether it's to increase octane, lower BATs, provide additional fueling.

Most kits on the market today and installations are prone to failure. Whether it's the pumps, controllers, clogged nozzles, etc. As we rely more and more on these auxiliary systems to fuel and cool the engines, it becomes more and more important to monitor that they're indeed doing their job.

It's always bugged me that we can't get a proper failsafe for WMI.

Sure you can buy the SafeInjection from Snow (around $180) but it seems to be failure prone. The root cause are flow sensors that are either:

a) too expensive
b) don't get along with methanol, swell, and seize.

I have a few ideas about getting a proper failsafe out there for WMI. It would be robust, detect leaks, clogged nozzles, failed pumps, be a clean installation and be reliable.

The problem is, the cost is not going to be too low. For a barebones system I can build we are looking at $300 - perhaps a bit more.

For me, this is well worth it. Perhaps not for everyone and this is why I am gauging interest. Is a $300-400 proper methanol failsafe system worth it for you? Don't even ask if it can be cheaper because the answer is no, not for a properly engineered and working one.

[Todd98SE]

Lex I'm curious what your thoughts are on the AEM Failsafe solution?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Todd98SE Lex I'm curious what your thoughts are on the AEM Failsafe solution?

There is a good chance their sensor suffers from high methanol mixtures as well. I got off the phone with their tech and they said they recommend only 50/50. They said they didn't do lifetime testing on 100% methanol. Not that we have to run 100% but if a sensor is not going to be happy at 100%, it may just be a longer period until it's not happy at 50/50.

Did a little digging and found this:

AEM Failsafe Fail Registry - Page 2 - Subaru Impreza WRX STI Forums: IWSTI.com

AEM Meth Failsafe gauge - NASIOC

[TiGraySpeed6]

On it's own, a safety is a great idea!
Worth every penny twice over when compared to the cost of something going wrong.

Packaged with a DO and/or Snow to create a full kit, and maybe priced about $550ish plus shipping, and you've got a real winner at a price point that keeps it safely separate from the 5th port single injector packages.

One stop shopping FTW

[Lex]

Originally Posted by TiGraySpeed6 On it's own, a safety is a great idea! Worth every penny twice over when compared to the cost of something going wrong. Packaged with a DO and/or Snow to create a full kit, and maybe priced about $550ish plus shipping, and you've got a real winner at a price point that keeps it safely separate from the 5th port single injector packages. One stop shopping FTW

Yes there plans for adding more pieces to the puzzle but the focus here is the failsafe. I feel a reliable failsafe is something the WMI market is in a lot of need of.

[2.0t03speed]

How would this compare to the fail safe features that you get from using an Aquamist Hfs-4 system (the one that is made to use with DI motors)? It seems like your fail safe system + a DO progressive kit would be in the Aquamist price range.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by 2.0t03speed How would this compare to the fail safe features that you get from using an Aquamist Hfs-4 system (the one that is made to use with DI motors)? It seems like your fail safe system + a DO progressive kit would be in the Aquamist price range.

Goal is to keep the price below that and offer similar (if not better) failsafe capabilities.

To my knowledge the Aquamist is around $1000.

On top of this you have to remember that a lot of people already have running systems without failsafes. installed.

[2.0t03speed]

Originally Posted by Lex Goal is to keep the price below that and offer similar (if not better) failsafe capabilities. To my knowledge the Aquamist is around $1000. On top of this you have to remember that a lot of people already have running systems without failsafes. installed.

The Hfs-4 is $850, and i definitely understand the need for a fail safe unit like this that current wmi owners can just add to their existing system. i was just curious for people like me that are looking at getting wmi in the future at how it compares to high quality kits like the Hfs-4. I'm sure what ever you put out it will be quality just like your other products.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by 2.0t03speed The Hfs-4 is $850, and i definitely understand the need for a fail safe unit like this that current wmi owners can just add to their existing system. i was just curious for people like me that are looking at getting wmi in the future at how it compares to high quality kits like the Hfs-4. I'm sure what ever you put out it will be quality just like your other products.

I have some good ideas about how to implement the failsafe in a way that other companies have not. However when working with liquid and methanol sensors of any kind become expensive and that's the big hold up.

I am going to be prototyping this and seeing where it ends up.

[Lex]

As it turns out Aquamist does have a standalone failsafe for $350 which is a similar ballpark price.

Aquamist DDS3v10 Water Flow Monitoring System - Modern Automotive Performance

[2.0t03speed]

Originally Posted by Lex As it turns out Aquamist does have a standalone failsafe for $350 which is a similar ballpark price. Aquamist DDS3v10 Water Flow Monitoring System - Modern Automotive Performance

nice i totally forgot about that. now you have something to compete with!

[BigRedSpecial]

I'd definitely be down... as much as I want a GA, I see a much higher level of fail from epic knock or hydrolocking than I do from overboost

[Dimenus]

I'd be interested. I have (very)eventual plans to go BT with a TMIC and a failsafe would definitely be a nice addition as meth is in the plans as well.

[Novej]

Hmmmm sooo is this why you always ignore my comments about installing my meth kit???? hahahahah I'm running your EBCS, your boost dial, your Guardian Angel with YOUR TUNE......In fact I have quite a few tunes from you.....I'd say well over $500 worth.......HA and you ask me if I'd be willing to pay $3-400 for a WMI failsafe......Well I say HA (back).....SILLY CANADIAN................................Of course I would, DUH!!!!

Only thing I'd like to know more about (as Im not completly familiar with what exactly Fail safes do).....without getting into the how, can you give us some more information on WHAT exactly your failsafe would do if it detects a failure.......

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Novej Hmmmm sooo is this why you always ignore my comments about installing my meth kit???? hahahahah I'm running your EBCS, your boost dial, your Guardian Angel with YOUR TUNE......In fact I have quite a few tunes from you.....I'd say well over $500 worth.......HA and you ask me if I'd be willing to pay $3-400 for a WMI failsafe......Well I say HA (back).....SILLY CANADIAN................................Of course I would, DUH!!!! Only thing I'd like to know more about (as Im not completly familiar with what exactly Fail safes do).....without getting into the how, can you give us some more information on WHAT exactly your failsafe would do if it detects a failure.......

A failsafe should detect as many possible issues with flow as possible. In other words it should detect too little flow (blocked line), or too much flow (ruptured line).

A lot of the failsafes out there trigger the WG solenoid to lower boost to spring pressure. However this would of course trigger the GA as well

Finally, yes, the entire goal is to have this 100% compatible with methanol and outlast the injection kit itself.

[uncorked11]

It's one of the worries I have about finishing my meth install. Now that my gremlins are worked out. The issues with failure I have read are holding me back. I think this is a great idea.

[IMASA]

I'd be down, please make it fully compatible with 100% meth.
I didn't buy the Snow or AEM ones because the reviews said it didn't work well once you go over 50/50.

Also, when the failsafe kicks in, does it trigger the GA to cut boost or the ECU to cut boost/timing?

[ms6_nate]

Im down. Personally I dont need anything more than 50/50 capable, but I support Stratified Auto over some of the generic companies, and Lex has treated me great so far!! Especially if this is a more simple install by chance. I have enough damn lines/wires/hoses running in that engine bay now lol.

[SleeperHatch]

Would this be a pretty easy install with meth kit already installed? How would it hook up?

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2

[bcmountainspeed]

You would hook it up according to Alex's complete and comprehensive instructions which are supplied with all the top quality Stratified tuning devices we have all come to know and love.

[ms3rick]

You get what you pay for in the tech world... If you can pull this off I can see this being big for the mod world if its not mazda only.

:-) good luck lex you silly canadian genius

[Lex]

Thanks everyone, glad to see some encouragement for this idea. Hard to say at this moment about the final implementation but it shouldn't be harder to install than a Guardian Angel.

[Dimenus]

Any more news on this front @Lex;?

Thanks!

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Dimenus Any more news on this front @Lex;? Thanks!

Still in the works It's taking a bit of time as I have been swamped.

[DSIT995]

Don't know how I missed this thread but I like it! My self and some of our NatorCT guys were toying around with a DIY failsafe but it never took life...

I'm very interested in a stratified failsafe, and I've been slowly gathering parts for a 5 nozzle setup down the road( ported/bunged Manifold, nozzles, new pumps) There is absolutely NO way I'd run a multi port setup without a failsafe in place.

At this point I have no desire to do a 5th port setup so this is something I will be waiting for eagerly

[wake2011]

Preventative maintenance has always been a + in my book and at the end of the day I think we all want increased reliability as well as power. A system like this would ultimately help in both cases. As of right now I have an AEM kit installed on the car. With the cost of just the system, and then to add the flow/failsafe gauge would put it in the $500's. If you're able to piece together a proper system (if not JUST the failsafe) I'd be in.

[DSIT995]

Any updates on this?

tapping....

[Lex]

Yes, in the pipeline ... drop date I don't want to infer on. It has just been extremely busy (which is great) and I am building up a team of people so that we can handle more projects and customers but this doesn't happen overnight.

[Koke382]

Originally Posted by Lex Yes, in the pipeline ... drop date I don't want to infer on. It has just been extremely busy (which is great) and I am building up a team of people so that we can handle more projects and customers but this doesn't happen overnight.

Im available for hire and or testing just saying. Lol
Meth kit is coming in the mail.

sent from my peepee

[DSIT995]

Originally Posted by Lex Yes, in the pipeline ... drop date I don't want to infer on. It has just been extremely busy (which is great) and I am building up a team of people so that we can handle more projects and customers but this doesn't happen overnight.

I'm installing a new cooling mist controller and working on a direct port setup but that won't happen for a couple months... I can wait ;-)

tapping....