Odd sound

[Last_Loser]

Just installed my GA and the Tial Q BOV. When I went to take it for a test drive to ensure that the GA was working correctly. While driving I started to get on it a little bit and let off the BOV would do its little flutter but immediately following the flutter I would hear a really horrible sound almost like a crashing sound. My only explanation was that it was the GA slamming the BOV shut. Is this possible or should I start looking for a serious problem?

[ms6mil]

Aren't the Tial BOV's a pull type valve? (Maybe the older ones were) Not sure of the Q version, but if it is I remember reading on the Stratified instruction page...

@Lex; would know better

[Last_Loser]

No its a push type I talked to lex I think when I bought it the only ones that dont work are the hks and I think the synapse

Finger Blasted

[ms6mil]

Ah good. I read a couple threads on other forums talking of the tial being a pull type. Hope you get it sorted out.

[Last_Loser]

Yeah i really think its what I said but the sound is just not normal and scares the shit out of me

Finger Blasted

[Lex]

A couple of first things to check:

1. Is the plumbing on the GA correct? It should be like this Manifold -> BPV IN -> BPV OUT -> BPV vacuum port.
2. Does the LED turn on and then shut off after a couple of second when you turn the ignition on?
3. Is the GA in VTA mode?
4. When you're driving what is the LED doing?

[Last_Loser]

Oh everything is fine plumbing wise, in vta mode and the light comes on at low load and idle after I start going it turns off. Everything seems to be working fine its just that noise it sounds so bad

Finger Blasted

[Last_Loser]

Just went out and lubed the BOV see if that helps....probably should have done that in the first place but the excitement got to me. When the rugrat wakes up im gonna strap the car seat in and go for a drive see if anything changes.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Last_Loser Just went out and lubed the BOV see if that helps....probably should have done that in the first place but the excitement got to me. When the rugrat wakes up im gonna strap the car seat in and go for a drive see if anything changes.

Let me know. The GA should not cause terrible noises. There might be some slight flutter in VTA mode but only very slight.

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex Let me know. The GA should not cause terrible noises. There might be some slight flutter in VTA mode but only very slight.

well I hear the slight flutter but immediately following is that clacking sound like I said. I dont think it is necessarily the GA but more the BOV. Tried to go for a drive but the baby was just not happy so it may not be until the wife piece gets home that I get to test drive it again. Was also think about taking it out of VTA mode to see if my spring is strong enough to overcome the vacuum.

[Last_Loser]

here is a couple videos I tried to get of the sound. now this very well could be the sound the BOV is supposed to make seeing as though I have never had one I dont know for sure but al the ones I have heard its very obvious. Especially since I get the flutter and the metal on metal grinding sound. Lemme know what you @Lex.

The second video you can really hear it at the end youll hear a little flutter then the noise.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Last_Loser here is a couple videos I tried to get of the sound. now this very well could be the sound the BOV is supposed to make seeing as though I have never had one I dont know for sure but al the ones I have heard its very obvious. Especially since I get the flutter and the metal on metal grinding sound. Lemme know what you @Lex. The second video you can really hear it at the end youll hear a little flutter then the noise.

Can't really tell from the video but to check how it's supposed to sound like bypass the GA with a hose directly to the BPV. Yes it will run rich at idle but you will be able to still drive it to test.

[Yatta]

Crap that sounds horrible, do you have a stock BPV? if you do, replace it and disassemble the one you are using, if it is metal on metal it should be obvious, thinking a tension nut/screw or something else is loose inside it. I wouldn't test the current valve on car as it sounds, it does sound like metal on metal and that is the last thing I want in my intake tract.
also, Lex, reading this, synapse BPV will not work at all or will not work in Pull mode?

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Yatta Crap that sounds horrible, do you have a stock BPV? if you do, replace it and disassemble the one you are using, if it is metal on metal it should be obvious, thinking a tension nut/screw or something else is loose inside it. I wouldn't test the current valve on car as it sounds, it does sound like metal on metal and that is the last thing I want in my intake tract. also, Lex, reading this, synapse BPV will not work at all or will not work in Pull mode?

Synapse BPV will work only in push mode.

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex Can't really tell from the video but to check how it's supposed to sound like bypass the GA with a hose directly to the BPV. Yes it will run rich at idle but you will be able to still drive it to test.

Ok I will give it a test here in a bit with the GA bypassed.

Originally Posted by Yatta Crap that sounds horrible, do you have a stock BPV? if you do, replace it and disassemble the one you are using, if it is metal on metal it should be obvious, thinking a tension nut/screw or something else is loose inside it. I wouldn't test the current valve on car as it sounds, it does sound like metal on metal and that is the last thing I want in my intake tract. also, Lex, reading this, synapse BPV will not work at all or will not work in Pull mode?

I havent taken it apart since I got it I just rubbed her down with some gun lube and went on my way and I definately agree it sounds horrible. scares the shit out of me to drive it with that sound and cant find any clips of what im hearing.

[Lex]

Could it be something like the intake or piping hitting something as the engine rocks from letting off?

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex Could it be something like the intake or piping hitting something as the engine rocks from letting off?

Honestly dont see that being it nothing got moved or worked on other than the battery box to run the wire for the led. Then the BOV was put on and hose ran. Im about to go bypass it right now and see how it sounds if still horrible ill take the Tial apart and see whats up on the inside.

[Last_Loser]

Ok so its definitely the BOV and the GA. The BOV is what is making the noise and in a way is supposed to sound like that. However what seems to be happening is that the BOV wants to relieve the pressure but the GA is doing its job and almost forcing the BOV closed because this is what the BOV sounds like with GA bypassed. While I could really give a shit about how it sounds should I really run it in VTA mode or get a stronger spring to keep the valve closed and run the GA in normal mode. I have seen and read the threads on here about people running the Tial Q normally without the GA int VTA mode.

[Lex]

The GA will close the BPV in VTA mode as well as limit for how long it stays open. If you are getting fluttering with the GA in VTA mode, then a softer spring is needed. Very mild fluttering is not a problem. That is the only sound that it should be making "out of the ordinary."

If you put the GA in normal mode and get a stiffer spring you might actually get more fluttering because the spring is to stiff and slows down the opening time as well as the amount it opens.

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex The GA will close the BPV in VTA mode as well as limit for how long it stays open. If you are getting fluttering with the GA in VTA mode, then a softer spring is needed. Very mild fluttering is not a problem. That is the only sound that it should be making "out of the ordinary." If you put the GA in normal mode and get a stiffer spring you might actually get more fluttering because the spring is to stiff and slows down the opening time as well as the amount it opens.

Ok sounds good man I just ordered the white spring its a little softer than the one that I have in now when it ships and gets installed I let you know how it goes man I appreciate it.

[Lex]

Keep me posted.

[Last_Loser]

Ok so got the white spring in the mail on monday got it installed yesterday and took it for a drive....This time instead of fluttering and making the awful noise it just makes the noise....Called Edge and they are sending me out a black spring which is the softest that they have. If all else fails I will just get the yellow spring and not run the Guardian Angel

[Lex]

PM sent!

[XerocX]

Hello @Lex; @Last_Loser; did this problem get solved? I ordered a Tial qr and would like to have the option of running vta, just wanted to know if there is anything else I need to do to run it this way? My Tial will have the white spring which is I believe 8 PSI? Thank you

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by XerocX Hello @Lex; @Last_Loser; did this problem get solved? I ordered a Tial qr and would like to have the option of running vta, just wanted to know if there is anything else I need to do to run it this way? My Tial will have the white spring which is I believe 8 PSI? Thank you

Honestly man I gave up trying to run it in VTA mode I just went with the yellow spring and 2 shims Im not sure what the Qr springs go up to but the yellow on the Q is for -22in/hg. So that spring and a couple shims and it works perfectly. Haven't decided what to do with the GA yet, either I sell it or I hook it back up and run in normal mode.

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Last_Loser Honestly man I gave up trying to run it in VTA mode I just went with the yellow spring and 2 shims Im not sure what the Qr springs go up to but the yellow on the Q is for -22in/hg. So that spring and a couple shims and it works perfectly. Haven't decided what to do with the GA yet, either I sell it or I hook it back up and run in normal mode.

Never a bad idea to have it as an overboost protection. Do you have any surge with those springs on the Tial valve?

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex Never a bad idea to have it as an overboost protection. Do you have any surge with those springs on the Tial valve?

Yeah I actually kept getting it with all of the springs. And even when I went to the supercharger springs it actually hit a point where the GA would let go of holding it closed under a low load and the spring wasnt able to keep it closed so it would crack open and cause the car to be unable to drive with such a boost leak

[XerocX]

Originally Posted by Last_Loser Honestly man I gave up trying to run it in VTA mode I just went with the yellow spring and 2 shims Im not sure what the Qr springs go up to but the yellow on the Q is for -22in/hg. So that spring and a couple shims and it works perfectly. Haven't decided what to do with the GA yet, either I sell it or I hook it back up and run in normal mode.

Hmmm, the springs for the qr are the same for the q. Do you have the unpainted spring? So far I have run the GA with other bov's with no problems, hope it works for me. I am thinking of ordering the unpainted spring though. Would you happen to know what the vac is on the ko4 or are they all different for each car? Thanks

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by XerocX Hmmm, the springs for the qr are the same for the q. Do you have the unpainted spring? So far I have run the GA with other bov's with no problems, hope it works for me. I am thinking of ordering the unpainted spring though. Would you happen to know what the vac is on the ko4 or are they all different for each car? Thanks

Each car is different I ran the unpainted with 4 shims and it worked fine with the GA not connected at all but I just went with the yellow and 2 shims since I kept buying a different spring to try to run the GA in VTA mode. The problem with the GA and the Tial BOV is that the spring aids in keeping it closed and you have multiple strengths of springs so what was happening in my case was that the GA would shut the valve as its supposed to but the springs also do that so with them both working in unison it would close too quickly causing it to barely crack open making a shreaking sound and flutter. I posted videos of what it does its a little hard to hear but at the end of one of the vids you hear it pretty decent.

Don't get me wrong the GA does exactly as it should its just trying to get it to work with this BOV is a pain.

[Lex]

The Focus ST controls the BPV via a solenoid and people are also having issues with the Tial valves on those cars. We are not having any issues on our cars but they seem to be hit and miss with these valves.

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex The Focus ST controls the BPV via a solenoid and people are also having issues with the Tial valves on those cars. We are not having any issues on our cars but they seem to be hit and miss with these valves.

What are you guys doing with the tial q to run it in vta mode

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Last_Loser What are you guys doing with the tial q to run it in vta mode

The car is speed density so it doesn't care on the Focus. However people do prefer to keep the valves closed at idle and run the OEM control solenoid. Some that have surge just run it off the manifold.

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by Lex The car is speed density so it doesn't care on the Focus. However people do prefer to keep the valves closed at idle and run the OEM control solenoid. Some that have surge just run it off the manifold.

I mean on our cars the speeds

[Lex]

Originally Posted by Last_Loser I mean on our cars the speeds

It's not a common valve on the Mazdas unfortunately. If you can get a stiff enough spring to keep it shut at idle and still vent without surging it's the simplest solution. How is it running now?

[XerocX]

Thanks guys for the info, @Last_Loser; where did you purchase the unpainted spring from? I think I'm going to go with that spring instead of the 8psi white spring.

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by XerocX Thanks guys for the info, @Last_Loser; where did you purchase the unpainted spring from? I think I'm going to go with that spring instead of the 8psi white spring.

I bought all my springs from Edgeautosport if they dont have them in they will just drop ship it from TiAL for you do some research and see if you can use the Q springs because I may have mine still ill look when I get home

[Lex]

If going with a GA then it's best to get a softer spring. If trying to do it without a GA, you will need a much stiffer spring. It's too bad the valve is not adjustable.

[XerocX]

Thanks again fellas! @Last_Loser; yes they definitely are the same springs good sir

[Last_Loser]

Originally Posted by XerocX Thanks again fellas! @Last_Loser; yes they definitely are the same springs good sir

Cool lemme find mine and pm me your address ill send it to you