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10-08-2014, 11:52 AM
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(Thread Starter) |   Not Ranked : 0 score  (REVIEW) Damond Motorsports TB Meth Injection spacer This past weekend I had a chance to install and test out the new Damond Motorsports Meth injection throttle body spacer. Now that I have had a chance to get a few revisions in with Rob Finkle and get in a good amount of miles, I will share my thoughts with you all. (Wall of text incoming) Looks and build quality first impressions: This one is easy. The spacer is a beautifully CNC machined piece of aluminum. The bolts are extended versions of the stock bolts and seem to be of great quality (If I recall correctly they are grade 6). Matt included a set of both Hex head and Allen head bolts for me to try. Ultimately I opted for the Allen head bolts, but I will talk about that later. The spacer also comes with a nice Allen head plug for each of the ports. Overall, the build quality is top notch and I couldn't ask for more. Ease of installation: My case may be a little bit different than most people who buy this. I installed a new ported intake manifold and new injector seals on the same day I installed the spacer. So needless to say it was super easy for me to install since I had the manifold and throttle body on the bench. All of that aside, if you can take off your throttle body, then you can install this spacer. I estimate it to be a 30 minute job. That includes removing any top mount or front mount stuff that is in the way and reinstalling it. There is one downside to running a spacer and that is of course the possibility that you may need to trim one of your intercooler couplers. If you are running a front mount you can probably get away with just sliding the TB coupler further down the cold pipe. On the other hand, if you are running a TMIC, you will need to trim your cold side boost tube to make everything fit nicely. Luckily I had a stock boost tube lying around so I didn't have to cut my JBR one. Basically I trimmed off a section of the boost tube that was slightly skinnier than the spacer itself, using the clamp as a straight edge. Since adding the spacer adds another mating surface between the manifold and spacer, you need to add a second TB gasket. I used an extra one that I had lying around, although Matt will be offering an extra gasket in his kit. This works perfectly and seals nice and tight. I mentioned before that I had 2 sets of bolts to try out. One set with Hex heads and the other with Allen heads. In the end I went with the Allen head bolts because I am a fan of the cleaner look and I have the correct Allen head sockets to easily remove the TB. I could see these bolts being an issue if you only have a set of T-handles and aren't a tool hoarder like myself. The hex head bolts are great and have a slightly bigger head than the stock bolts. I believe in the final product the regular Hex head bolts will be included. All said and done, I think this is a very simple install. Setting up the meth nozzles: This is the fun part. The version of the spacer I have only has 4 ports. Two ports on two neighboring sides. This proved to be a problem. Since I have my Oil catch can hoses running behind my TB I can't use the ports on the back side. And of course a portion of the throttle body that has gears for the stepper motor sticks out on the front side. That leaves the bottom side and possibly the top side to put nozzles in. Since the ports were on neighboring sides this meant I could only use 1 pair of ports. (Note: The production version of the spacer will have 6 ports. 3 pairs. This will eliminate the problem completely.) Luckily this was not a big deal for me as I was just planning on running 2 nozzles with a combined flow between 9 and 10 GPH and I like how stealthy the bottom ports are. With both ports run underneath the throttle body the meth lines are almost completely hidden and it is a very clean look. I used a Y connector right after a check valve into two Snow Performance nozzle holders. Gains and benefits: Now this is the one that everyone cares about. Unfortunately since I did install a ported manifold and replaced leaky injector seals it is impossible for me to give any numbers as far as gains as the manifold and seals would greatly skew the results. Plus I think Rob let pickles do the revisions this time.  (For those of you that are curious, according to VD I have gained 20 to 30 HP and 30 or so lbft. That's comparing pre install manifold/injector seals/TB spacer to after install with a few revisions on my tune) What I can tell you is my BATs are always super low and after spraying they have been at 32 degrees which I know is mainly because the temp sensor is saturated in methanol. But I can say that with my previous nozzle location (in the side of my TMIC cold pipe) my bats never dropped that far. Going from cruising at 80 and 90 degree to 32 degrees after getting into boost is pretty awesome. The car is much happier now. Final thoughts: If you are running a methanol injection setup, you should buy this. It is cleaner looking, more convenient, more easily flexible and it locates the nozzles in the best possible place. (short of a nozzle in each runner. Which isn't without its own downfalls) Be sure to checkout @Farhan@DM; thread HERE to follow the release of this awesome product. More importantly Click HERE to pre-order/buy this thang. Thanks @Matt@DamondMotorsports; for letting me test this and Thanks @rfinkle2; for the guidance.
__________________ JBR Air Dam JBR Short Shifter JBR Solid Shifter Bushings JBR RMM TRZ TMM Damond PMM Damond P/S Cooler Damond Vented OCC JBR OCC JBR .250 Competition RSB 3SpeedsGarage PnP intake Manifold Cobb APV3 H&R Sport Springs Treadstone TR8 FMIC HTP 3.5 inch intake Snow Performance Progressive Controller and Safeinjection Module TWM Big Type-R Weighted Shift Knob Wiseco Forged Pistons XS Power Tubular Manifold UR DP UR TP Autotech HPFP Internals NGK 6510's Koni Yellows Stoptech SS Braided Lines and street pads GFB TMS Respons BOV Borla Cat-Back BNR S4V2 Eagle H-Beams ACT 6 puck clutch and flywheel Last edited by BigO; 10-08-2014 at 12:09 PM. |
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10-08-2014, 11:57 AM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score You take prettier pictures than me. I tested this spacer as well and would agree with everything written above. The single challenge in this install is figuring out/deciding where to locate nozzles, and even that is not bad at all. I believe the final version has 6 ports total, 2 ports on 3 sides. So that should make it slightly easier to find a port that has clearance to work for just about any set-up.
__________________ 2013 MS3 Black Mica SLUGGISH RUGGISH BONE SLUNTWORKS SPEEDSHOP |
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10-08-2014, 12:35 PM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score Thanks to suggestions from both of you and our third tester we have changed from 4 to 6 ports for more mounting options. All pre-buy parts will have 6 ports. Also, thanks to suggestions we are including 6, not 5, pipe plugs. Use the last one to close off your old port, if needed.
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10-08-2014, 12:40 PM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score My man Owen. Very nice review man.  |
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10-09-2014, 12:56 AM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score Nice review - thanks for the great pics too . Question regarding the check valve's - What brand are yours and is there any details on what their cracking pressure is? I tried to run 1 solenoid (pre-distributer) and 4 check valves for my port injected methanol setup (as pictured) and found that the engines negative vacuum pressure would still crack the check valve and siphon the methanol through it. I have since changed over to twin solenoids which not only works much better to keep the lines primed, but also gives the shortest possible distance from nozzle to solenoid/check valve. I am interested in the TB-spacer as it is a much cleaner look, but since the nozzles are located Post-TB i am worried it will have the same effect as when i tried it and will siphon the methanol through the lines under high engine vacuum conditions.
__________________ 05 MPS 6 - Self Tuned Borg Warner EFR T4 Twin Scrolled, Forged Block, Snow Performance S3 WMI, 5th/6th Port Injection, CPe: Ex Mani, Custom intake 3.75" MAF, CPe HPFP, Injector Seals, REM, SURE: Rear Diff Front mount & Brace, TIG's; Tial EWG, HDI FMIC, Custom 3" TBE, 3.5-Bar MAP sensor, AWR SEM, SouthBend S4 Clutch, Custom Head Unit, Car-LED Tails, 6000K HIDs, Auto Head-light Kit, Mugen Visors, LED conv., BC Coilovers, SPC Ball Joints, Brembo BBK Last edited by Rayd; 10-09-2014 at 01:21 AM. |
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10-09-2014, 08:00 AM
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I have posted this video before, but I believe this is what is going on with your set-up and why your dual solenoids are working well for you..
BigO likes this. Last edited by rfinkle2; 10-09-2014 at 08:00 AM. Reason: MSF Database - Automerged Doublepost | ||
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10-09-2014, 08:02 AM
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I pull similar max vac numbers to Rob.
__________________ 2013 MS3 Black Mica SLUGGISH RUGGISH BONE SLUNTWORKS SPEEDSHOP | |
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10-09-2014, 06:51 AM
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(Thread Starter) | Not Ranked : 0 score I'm using a devils own check valve. Also one of my nozzle holders has a check valve built in, but i pretend it doesnt. I have had no issues with it so far. As far as cracking pressure I believe it is 16psi. I think @rfinkle2; could probably give some advice here. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk rfinkle2 likes this.
__________________ JBR Air Dam JBR Short Shifter JBR Solid Shifter Bushings JBR RMM TRZ TMM Damond PMM Damond P/S Cooler Damond Vented OCC JBR OCC JBR .250 Competition RSB 3SpeedsGarage PnP intake Manifold Cobb APV3 H&R Sport Springs Treadstone TR8 FMIC HTP 3.5 inch intake Snow Performance Progressive Controller and Safeinjection Module TWM Big Type-R Weighted Shift Knob Wiseco Forged Pistons XS Power Tubular Manifold UR DP UR TP Autotech HPFP Internals NGK 6510's Koni Yellows Stoptech SS Braided Lines and street pads GFB TMS Respons BOV Borla Cat-Back BNR S4V2 Eagle H-Beams ACT 6 puck clutch and flywheel |
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10-09-2014, 06:53 AM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score Yeah the check valves i used in those pictures are devils own also, hmm will sub for further long term results.
__________________ 05 MPS 6 - Self Tuned Borg Warner EFR T4 Twin Scrolled, Forged Block, Snow Performance S3 WMI, 5th/6th Port Injection, CPe: Ex Mani, Custom intake 3.75" MAF, CPe HPFP, Injector Seals, REM, SURE: Rear Diff Front mount & Brace, TIG's; Tial EWG, HDI FMIC, Custom 3" TBE, 3.5-Bar MAP sensor, AWR SEM, SouthBend S4 Clutch, Custom Head Unit, Car-LED Tails, 6000K HIDs, Auto Head-light Kit, Mugen Visors, LED conv., BC Coilovers, SPC Ball Joints, Brembo BBK |
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10-09-2014, 07:03 AM
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(Thread Starter) | Not Ranked : 0 score Did some napkin math. Theoretically, If the check valve cracks at exactly 16psi, your engine would have to be pulling 33 in of mercury in vacuum before the check valve cracked. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk rfinkle2 likes this.
__________________ JBR Air Dam JBR Short Shifter JBR Solid Shifter Bushings JBR RMM TRZ TMM Damond PMM Damond P/S Cooler Damond Vented OCC JBR OCC JBR .250 Competition RSB 3SpeedsGarage PnP intake Manifold Cobb APV3 H&R Sport Springs Treadstone TR8 FMIC HTP 3.5 inch intake Snow Performance Progressive Controller and Safeinjection Module TWM Big Type-R Weighted Shift Knob Wiseco Forged Pistons XS Power Tubular Manifold UR DP UR TP Autotech HPFP Internals NGK 6510's Koni Yellows Stoptech SS Braided Lines and street pads GFB TMS Respons BOV Borla Cat-Back BNR S4V2 Eagle H-Beams ACT 6 puck clutch and flywheel |
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10-09-2014, 07:08 AM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score 33 in of mercury is 16.2psi And my boost gauge shows that while engine braking its pulling more than -16psi of vacuum which explains the (albeit slow) siphoning. its frustrating when the lines arent primed.
__________________ 05 MPS 6 - Self Tuned Borg Warner EFR T4 Twin Scrolled, Forged Block, Snow Performance S3 WMI, 5th/6th Port Injection, CPe: Ex Mani, Custom intake 3.75" MAF, CPe HPFP, Injector Seals, REM, SURE: Rear Diff Front mount & Brace, TIG's; Tial EWG, HDI FMIC, Custom 3" TBE, 3.5-Bar MAP sensor, AWR SEM, SouthBend S4 Clutch, Custom Head Unit, Car-LED Tails, 6000K HIDs, Auto Head-light Kit, Mugen Visors, LED conv., BC Coilovers, SPC Ball Joints, Brembo BBK |
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10-09-2014, 07:14 AM
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(Thread Starter) | Not Ranked : 0 score I think there are check valves that crack at higher psi. Devils own specifically advertises a "low cracking pressure" Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
__________________ JBR Air Dam JBR Short Shifter JBR Solid Shifter Bushings JBR RMM TRZ TMM Damond PMM Damond P/S Cooler Damond Vented OCC JBR OCC JBR .250 Competition RSB 3SpeedsGarage PnP intake Manifold Cobb APV3 H&R Sport Springs Treadstone TR8 FMIC HTP 3.5 inch intake Snow Performance Progressive Controller and Safeinjection Module TWM Big Type-R Weighted Shift Knob Wiseco Forged Pistons XS Power Tubular Manifold UR DP UR TP Autotech HPFP Internals NGK 6510's Koni Yellows Stoptech SS Braided Lines and street pads GFB TMS Respons BOV Borla Cat-Back BNR S4V2 Eagle H-Beams ACT 6 puck clutch and flywheel |
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10-09-2014, 08:06 AM
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My block is 0.02" over running OEM 9.5:1 CR , however im looking into this more since im about to drop in a 10.6:1 built block which means (as @rfinkle2 said) the vacuum pressure will increase further. Could also be that the checkvalves are actually cracking at a lower pressure than advertised?
__________________ 05 MPS 6 - Self Tuned Borg Warner EFR T4 Twin Scrolled, Forged Block, Snow Performance S3 WMI, 5th/6th Port Injection, CPe: Ex Mani, Custom intake 3.75" MAF, CPe HPFP, Injector Seals, REM, SURE: Rear Diff Front mount & Brace, TIG's; Tial EWG, HDI FMIC, Custom 3" TBE, 3.5-Bar MAP sensor, AWR SEM, SouthBend S4 Clutch, Custom Head Unit, Car-LED Tails, 6000K HIDs, Auto Head-light Kit, Mugen Visors, LED conv., BC Coilovers, SPC Ball Joints, Brembo BBK | |
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10-09-2014, 08:21 AM
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I bet you've had one apart and probably know what I'm getting @. LOL Rayd likes this. | |
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01-16-2015, 03:05 PM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score Hey guys! About the Solenoid for the meth(Snow), I took it off because it was messing with the spraying pattern and that was weeks ago by that time the nozzle was BEFORE the TB, and now after the installation of the spacer my AFR is 12-14 at idle, and my STFT is -25 and my LTFT is at 5. could that be the case? Is it sucking meth into the system under vacuum? but I have the nozzle with the check valve, what is the check valve function then?
__________________ Mazdaspeed 6 2006 Sp63 Longblock with Mahle and manly, ported head, keyed crank and cams, stiffer springs, GTX2867R IWG, Freaks intake 4 inch,Autotech Internals, Stratified Ebc + GA, CP-E injector seals, CS Custom pipes FMIC, Snow performance stage2 100% meth, Cp-E decatted downpipe, Custom Catback with VareX mufflers, EGR Delete, SURE TMM+PMM+RMM, South Bend Clutch Stage3 Daily, CS rear diff mount, TurbineTech Front diff mount, CS rear swaybar, Racingbeat rear Endlinks, Matt Damond PS cooler, JBR OCC Stage 2, Bosch 3 bar MAP w/ PNP Harness, BC coilovers, Tenzo R Type M 19" 235/35, Sure Shortshift, Xcarlink, Speed performance Aux fan control, Synchronic DV BOV, DBA front rotor, Ebc yellow stuff(FR), EBC greenstuff (R), Stoptech brakelines and Finally, Tuned By Lex @ Stratified Current INFO : tuning is paused due the winter. Waiting to be installed: Cp-e exhaust manifold stock flange with MVR 44 external wastegate and dump tube. |
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01-16-2015, 03:26 PM
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Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
__________________ JBR Air Dam JBR Short Shifter JBR Solid Shifter Bushings JBR RMM TRZ TMM Damond PMM Damond P/S Cooler Damond Vented OCC JBR OCC JBR .250 Competition RSB 3SpeedsGarage PnP intake Manifold Cobb APV3 H&R Sport Springs Treadstone TR8 FMIC HTP 3.5 inch intake Snow Performance Progressive Controller and Safeinjection Module TWM Big Type-R Weighted Shift Knob Wiseco Forged Pistons XS Power Tubular Manifold UR DP UR TP Autotech HPFP Internals NGK 6510's Koni Yellows Stoptech SS Braided Lines and street pads GFB TMS Respons BOV Borla Cat-Back BNR S4V2 Eagle H-Beams ACT 6 puck clutch and flywheel | |
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01-16-2015, 03:34 PM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score I will remove the hose from the safe injection that goes to the nozzle, and seal the hose and see if it helps the AFR, because then there is no meth going to the nozzle at all
__________________ Mazdaspeed 6 2006 Sp63 Longblock with Mahle and manly, ported head, keyed crank and cams, stiffer springs, GTX2867R IWG, Freaks intake 4 inch,Autotech Internals, Stratified Ebc + GA, CP-E injector seals, CS Custom pipes FMIC, Snow performance stage2 100% meth, Cp-E decatted downpipe, Custom Catback with VareX mufflers, EGR Delete, SURE TMM+PMM+RMM, South Bend Clutch Stage3 Daily, CS rear diff mount, TurbineTech Front diff mount, CS rear swaybar, Racingbeat rear Endlinks, Matt Damond PS cooler, JBR OCC Stage 2, Bosch 3 bar MAP w/ PNP Harness, BC coilovers, Tenzo R Type M 19" 235/35, Sure Shortshift, Xcarlink, Speed performance Aux fan control, Synchronic DV BOV, DBA front rotor, Ebc yellow stuff(FR), EBC greenstuff (R), Stoptech brakelines and Finally, Tuned By Lex @ Stratified Current INFO : tuning is paused due the winter. Waiting to be installed: Cp-e exhaust manifold stock flange with MVR 44 external wastegate and dump tube. |
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01-17-2015, 05:33 PM
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| Not Ranked : 0 score Update : problem solved, it was the meth that have been sucked into my intake due to vacuum, after the solenoid install, the problem with my AFR is gone 
__________________ Mazdaspeed 6 2006 Sp63 Longblock with Mahle and manly, ported head, keyed crank and cams, stiffer springs, GTX2867R IWG, Freaks intake 4 inch,Autotech Internals, Stratified Ebc + GA, CP-E injector seals, CS Custom pipes FMIC, Snow performance stage2 100% meth, Cp-E decatted downpipe, Custom Catback with VareX mufflers, EGR Delete, SURE TMM+PMM+RMM, South Bend Clutch Stage3 Daily, CS rear diff mount, TurbineTech Front diff mount, CS rear swaybar, Racingbeat rear Endlinks, Matt Damond PS cooler, JBR OCC Stage 2, Bosch 3 bar MAP w/ PNP Harness, BC coilovers, Tenzo R Type M 19" 235/35, Sure Shortshift, Xcarlink, Speed performance Aux fan control, Synchronic DV BOV, DBA front rotor, Ebc yellow stuff(FR), EBC greenstuff (R), Stoptech brakelines and Finally, Tuned By Lex @ Stratified Current INFO : tuning is paused due the winter. Waiting to be installed: Cp-e exhaust manifold stock flange with MVR 44 external wastegate and dump tube. |
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