Cp-e Full Control Flash w/o standback & tune?

[steven88]

I am interested in getting more power out of my car...I currently have all the bolt ons minus exhaust manifold and tune...a tune would probably be my next step so I'm leaning towards cp-e

I want to take it one step at a time...will I be okay if I just run the FCF with the stock tune? I do not have enough money to buy the standback and pnp at the same time....so I'm just going with the FCF for now....will it run okay with a stock tune?

I Also have a question in regards to the fuel pump....can my fuel pressure be maxed out even if i can't feel it? I have been running ETS TMIC, Cp-e DP, full intake for the longest time....and have not hit any kind of cut...car runs great....however I have not logged my FP using a dash hawk....so I was wondering if this is something that you can feel? And will putting on a FCF make it even worse for fuel pressure?

Thanks in advanced!

[blackwidow]

You will not have the best result without the Standback , P3 performance made the fcf on a stock car but they got no big difference without the stansback . I think is a wasegate issue . You can call P3 for better answer ,they are at 30 sec from CP-E .

BTW , i'm from Montreal and i got the flash and tune at P3 June 13 , long trip for me but 64whp gain at 6250 rpm , i'm very happy , Jason is a very good tuner .

[Driverman5777]

I had the flash before the standback and it made the car feel a lot more fluid... Standback definitely makes a bigger difference but the flash will do very well on its own even if numbers don't speak volumes. In terms of the fuel pump I'd get a dashhawk and check it. I have a CBE, Intake, and Standback and I am dropping down to 1200 PSI at around 5500 so I can imagine you are probably maxed out as well. Also since I am maxed out when the pump hits this barrier It produces knock so you definitely want to get it looked at. I'd get a fuel pump before the standback or flash if I were you, thats my next step.

[steven88]

Originally Posted by Driverman5777 I had the flash before the standback and it made the car feel a lot more fluid... Standback definitely makes a bigger difference but the flash will do very well on its own even if numbers don't speak volumes. In terms of the fuel pump I'd get a dashhawk and check it. I have a CBE, Intake, and Standback and I am dropping down to 1200 PSI at around 5500 so I can imagine you are probably maxed out as well. Also since I am maxed out when the pump hits this barrier It produces knock so you definitely want to get it looked at. I'd get a fuel pump before the standback or flash if I were you, thats my next step.

is the low fuel pressure something that you can FEEL on the street? or its something you only see through the Dash Hawk?

[Driverman5777]

only see it on the dashHawk. But its not good

[superskaterxes]

ummm not hating on CPE at all cause their shit rocks but for the price of the FCF alone u could buy an AP which includes a PNP, SB, and all the flashes CPE offers........

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by steven88 is the low fuel pressure something that you can FEEL on the street? or its something you only see through the Dash Hawk?

you can feel FP after you get the pump. its easily one of the most SOTP gains u can buy once your fully bolted.

[steven88]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes ummm not hating on CPE at all cause their shit rocks but for the price of the FCF alone u could buy an AP which includes a PNP, SB, and all the flashes CPE offers........

I totally agree with you...cobb AP is definitely the bang for the buck since it includes everything CP-E has but at half the price...but is the COBB ATR beta even a good tuning solution? CP-E has been proven thats why I'm going with them...unless you can convince me otherwise the ATR beta is better

Originally Posted by superskaterxes you can feel FP after you get the pump. its easily one of the most SOTP gains u can buy once your fully bolted.

whats SOTP? I'm thinking of KMD internals...are they reliable like CP-E HPFP?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by steven88 I totally agree with you...cobb AP is definitely the bang for the buck since it includes everything CP-E has but at half the price...but is the COBB ATR beta even a good tuning solution? CP-E has been proven thats why I'm going with them...unless you can convince me otherwise the ATR beta is better whats SOTP? I'm thinking of KMD internals...are they reliable like CP-E HPFP?

i guess u can say CPE is proven but im making good ass power on my AP.

SOTP= seat of the pants aka butt dyno. the kmd internals are def the best u can get as far as internals but nothing will ever be the quality of the cpe piece. you will also pay to play with cpe but know your getting the best of the best.

[steven88]

are you running OTS map or custom ATR tune? If custom, how easy is it to tune with the ATR?

I know CP-E SB, you just input boost psi and forget about everything....then you have a 30x30 table for ignition timing and fuel....what about ATR?

[superskaterxes]

Originally Posted by steven88 are you running OTS map or custom ATR tune? If custom, how easy is it to tune with the ATR? I know CP-E SB, you just input boost psi and forget about everything....then you have a 30x30 table for ignition timing and fuel....what about ATR?

custom E-tune through christian.

ATR is essentially exactly like the SB except u can me much more specific in your tuning. you just dont change boost and timing u change load and fuel cut and lots of other important ish.

[steven88]

nice thanks for the reply

for those with full control flash...if I disconnect the battery or clear codes from the ECU, this won't mess with the flash right?

The only way the FCF will get deleted is if I take my car into the dealership and have them do some warranty work...then they flash the ECM right?

[Driverman5777]

only way it will get deleted is if you get it reflashed. but even then CP-e will have your name in the system and charge you I think 15 to flash it again.

I know nothing of ATR but have the standBack and absolutely love it. Am going to be getting the Pro Fuel controller soon and am excited to see how that goes.

Also CP-e's fuel pump is a bit pricey but is of top notch quality and is assembled in a clean room which is important for the precise tolerances on this pump. Doing the KMD leaves for a lot of user error.

[dadasracecar]

I'd be willing to bet you'd make more power with the FCF and a manual boost controller than you would with the AP.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by dadasracecar I'd be willing to bet you'd make more power with the FCF and a manual boost controller than you would with the AP.

i dont disagree with this, but it would be close either way. problem is...youre also more likely to put a hole in you block that way too.

[killa cam]

Originally Posted by superskaterxes custom E-tune through christian. ATR is essentially exactly like the SB except u can me much more specific in your tuning. you just dont change boost and timing u change load and fuel cut and lots of other important ish.

how much does it cost for a custom e-tune from christian?

boost, fuel and timing are what you need to change to tune a car. SB does all of that. SB also has control of the CDFP. with the SB and FCF you don't need to worry about load or fuel cut. this is the only tuning solution proven to make big power safely.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by steven88 is the low fuel pressure something that you can FEEL on the street? or its something you only see through the Dash Hawk?

if youre fuel pressure is dropping wot, then the car is gonna feel like ass. it will also probably feel unresponsive and inconsistent in partial throttle settings as well.

cpe pump and kmd internals are the same once the internals are installed. its just a matter of whether you want to pay out 1000 bucks and deal with a core exchange or whether you want to spend a couple hundred and do the install yourself.

there are probably triple the guys out there with internal kits vs the cpe pump... certainly from a performance standpoint there is no difference. its financial decision, and an install decision. this is the same argument that goes on in the vw community, and the points are exactly the same. in the end if you get a working pump either way, then either will be viewed as a success.

[glocK23]

Originally Posted by palerider i dont disagree with this, but it would be close either way. problem is...youre also more likely to put a hole in you block that way too.

explain

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by killa cam how much does it cost for a custom e-tune from christian? boost, fuel and timing are what you need to change to tune a car. SB does all of that. SB also has control of the CDFP. with the SB and FCF you don't need to worry about load or fuel cut. this is the only tuning solution proven to make big power safely.

if you cant tune this car partial throttle.... then your tuning solution is a complete waste of money. thats all.

for sheer power a fcf/ mbc, a fcf/ standback, or an ap....
they all = the same.

once you start modding on the stock block, and need partial throttle changes, and safety.... there is only one.

who gives a shit about safety wot. ive never heard of a car blowing that way, no matter what the tuning "solution". its a moot point.

[killa cam]

Originally Posted by glocK23 explain

no precise control over boost is no good. bad spikes can and will happen. plus you cant pull timing or lean the mixture if you are running big boost. if all you wanna do is 17psi and FCF you will probably be safe, but there is no guarentee like having a good tune.

speaking of boost control, i have yet to see an AP log show as good of boost control as I have gotten with the SB...

boost vs TPS (FCF)

[Driverman5777]

Originally Posted by palerider if youre fuel pressure is dropping wot, then the car is gonna feel like ass. it will also probably feel unresponsive and inconsistent in partial throttle settings as well. cpe pump and kmd internals are the same once the internals are installed. its just a matter of whether you want to pay out 1000 bucks and deal with a core exchange or whether you want to spend a couple hundred and do the install yourself. there are probably triple the guys out there with internal kits vs the cpe pump... certainly from a performance standpoint there is no difference. its financial decision, and an install decision. this is the same argument that goes on in the vw community, and the points are exactly the same. in the end if you get a working pump either way, then either will be viewed as a success.

have to disagree wit you there... my personal opinion that a lot of corners are cut with these internal kits...

Steven, read this if you want more info on the CP-e pump.

“The pain of poor quality lasts long after the joy of a cheap price” |

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by Driverman5777 have to disagree wit you there... my personal opinion that a lot of corners are cut with these internal kits... Steven, read this if you want more info on the CP-e pump. “The pain of poor quality lasts long after the joy of a cheap price” |

utter bullshit... that link. its propaganda and yellow journalism.

those were inferior cdi pumps. nobody questions that. if cpe wanted to write a discussion on actual facts they could have compared it to pumps such as awe, autotech, kmd, etc, etc... pumps that have been around for years and run on thousands of cars around the world no problem.

posting that link is cheap scare tactics using an example of a company that doesnt exist anymore... and painting it as "all the competition". cdis werent the competition then, and they arent now.

[steven88]

thanks for all the replies guys...good information in this thread

another quick question though...when I order the FCF, why does it give you 3 options for the flash?

MazdaSPEED3 FullControl™ Flash

on the very bottom it gives you 3 options...Throttle Control, Fuel Cut Fix, Mass Air Meter (requires Xcel XL)

what exactly are these? I notice you get one free...then everything else is extra $$

[steven88]

SPEED3 ProFuel™ Controller

this new pro fuel controller is for meth users only right? I don't need to worry about this unless I am running meth?

[Driverman5777]

profuel controller is for meth or a secondary fuel rail. Not necessary if you are running neither. I personally have the fuel cut flash because my car was running like a fucking retard during the winter before I got it. Fixed everything completely. You don't need the MAF flash unless you are going BT. I would suggest fCF and the fuel cut.

[steven88]

Originally Posted by Driverman5777 profuel controller is for meth or a secondary fuel rail. Not necessary if you are running neither. I personally have the fuel cut flash because my car was running like a fucking retard during the winter before I got it. Fixed everything completely. You don't need the MAF flash unless you are going BT. I would suggest fCF and the fuel cut.

so I would need option 1, throttle control...and option 2, fuel cut fix?

so its a $35 option for the fuel cut fix right? throttle is already included with the flash

i take it that standback does not have any control over fuel cut? it does not allow you to raise it or what not like AP?

[Driverman5777]

can't say never used an AP... just saying it did a world of good for me. and yes I do believe its a 35 dollar opt.

[killa cam]

Originally Posted by steven88 i take it that standback does not have any control over fuel cut? it does not allow you to raise it or what not like AP?

it gets rid of fuel cut. you won't have a problem with it anymore.

[steven88]

Originally Posted by killa cam it gets rid of fuel cut. you won't have a problem with it anymore.

so theres a setting on the standback that lets you turn off fuel cut? just click on it and you won't have fuel cut period?

[killa cam]

no, with the fuel cut flash, you will get no fuel cut.

if you didn't have the fuel cut flash, there are certain ways you can 'tune out' a cut with the SB, but it is not as certain as the fuel cut flash.

[blackwidow]

Before my flash i had lot of fuel cut with teh Standback in winter season , so thats why i bought the fuel cut fix is a $35 extra but i didn't have choice . Will see in next winter if this will perform like supposed .

Buy the flash with the fuel cut fix option , anyway it's only $35.

[www.cp-e.com]

Originally Posted by palerider utter bullshit... that link. its propaganda and yellow journalism. those were inferior cdi pumps. nobody questions that. if cpe wanted to write a discussion on actual facts they could have compared it to pumps such as awe, autotech, kmd, etc, etc... pumps that have been around for years and run on thousands of cars around the world no problem. posting that link is cheap scare tactics using an example of a company that doesnt exist anymore... and painting it as "all the competition". cdis werent the competition then, and they arent now.

Wow, Randy, "scare tactics" and "yellow journalism"? I wonder if people that bought various internals kits that failed several times over would agree with you?

All that article is trying to demonstrate is that internals can fail for a variety of reasons, whereas the cp-e pumps are guaranteed not to fail. How is that bullshit exactly?


And for the "thousands of cars around the world with no problem" don't you think you're overselling that a little?

VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com - View Single Post - WoW! About time! Thanks to APR!

"I bought the KMD pump, once i got that installed I thought that my car was for sure really messed up. Blowing out white smoke, hard core back fires."

VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com - View Single Post - KMD Pump installed

"same thing happened to me when I put in a KMD rebuild, they leak..."

VWvortex Forums: Could excess carbon deposits on cyl 4 intake valves cause the engine to run rich?

"The leak is clearly seen in the film clip and was only being pressurized at about 105lb. Nothing compared to the pressures it is subject too in real world conditions."

VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com - View Single Post - Idle problem after a race.

"Unfortunately the AWE pump was the problem...."


How many more of these bullshit posts would you like me to link?

[kore2000]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Wow, Randy, "scare tactics" and "yellow journalism"? I wonder if people that bought various internals kits that failed several times over would agree with you? All that article is trying to demonstrate is that internals can fail for a variety of reasons, whereas the cp-e pumps are guaranteed not to fail. How is that bullshit exactly? And for the "thousands of cars around the world with no problem" don't you think you're overselling that a little? VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com - View Single Post - WoW! About time! Thanks to APR! "I bought the KMD pump, once i got that installed I thought that my car was for sure really messed up. Blowing out white smoke, hard core back fires." VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com - View Single Post - KMD Pump installed "same thing happened to me when I put in a KMD rebuild, they leak..." VWvortex Forums: Could excess carbon deposits on cyl 4 intake valves cause the engine to run rich? "The leak is clearly seen in the film clip and was only being pressurized at about 105lb. Nothing compared to the pressures it is subject too in real world conditions." VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com - View Single Post - Idle problem after a race. "Unfortunately the AWE pump was the problem...." How many more of these bullshit posts would you like me to link?

So if CP-E's pump is guaranteed not to fail, and 'hypothetically speaking' one does fail, and takes the motor with it, is CP-E going to pay for the cost of a replacement motor?

[phailerider]

you make it sound like theres never an install that goes awry in the aftermarket community jordan. should i start pulling links with guys who fuck up there cpe bov install and talk about how crappy that is because of the lousy c-clip design? dont even get me started on end user issues with pnp standbacks! is that a reason to buy an AP?

maybe i should go back and write an article for every problem anybodys ever had with a cpe product. i'll call it something like... "why pay more for results like these?" do you think thats "fair"? that this would be accurate? to use user install or the very rare occasional manufacturing defect to steer people away from cpe in general?

installs sometimes cause a problem.... slight deviation can cause a problem. big fucking deal.

if your going to target a CDI internal kit that has been recalled, and is no longer available, to justify why people should choose your option that costs $750 more out of pocket up front than the internals i also sell, then try to make a slight attempt to be less biased wehn you write an article.

id like to see how many guys with working internals would trade their pumps plus 750 cash for a cpe pump right now. how about just finding one!!!
bottom line is if the install goes fine, and you use a pump that has a proven track record than the internals work every bit as well as your cpe pump. and theres thousands of guys that make that statement true.

for a guy like me who has dozens of satisfied customers of kmd internal fuel pumps.....your article was garbage and unethical. theres 3 kmd internal kits for every cpe pump out there working FLAWLESSLY on a mazda right now....
why grind an axe? its a marketing agenda.... it was a horrendously biased writeup.

[whoosh@Realtune]

FYI for the OP

my highest AWHP of 386 was done with cp-e flash and no tuner with KMD/mrlilguy CDFP internals
my highest AWTQ of 376 was done with the cp-e flash(s) and the SB PNP w/ a cpe CDFP

[kore2000]

Originally Posted by whoosh FYI for the OP my highest AWHP of 386 was done with cp-e flash and no tuner with KMD/mrlilguy CDFP internals my highest AWTQ of 376 was done with the cp-e flash(s) and the SB PNP w/ a cpe CDFP

On the run with the SB PNP and CPE CDFP, didn't you fuel cut earlier in the run causing you to stop short?

[whoosh@Realtune]

Originally Posted by kore2000 On the run with the SB PNP and CPE CDFP, didn't you fuel cut earlier in the run causing you to stop short?

yes, the no cut flash was NOT available (DAMN!!!!) when I was still playing with the MS6
Dada, Jordan, and company all thought my cut was cold weather related

[www.cp-e.com]

Originally Posted by kore2000 So if CP-E's pump is guaranteed not to fail, and 'hypothetically speaking' one does fail, and takes the motor with it, is CP-E going to pay for the cost of a replacement motor?

Absolutely not. We guarantee the pump, and not the damage it may do if it fails. The same is true for the internals kits, minus the lifetime warranty.

Originally Posted by palerider you make it sound like theres never an install that goes awry in the aftermarket community jordan. should i start pulling links with guys who fuck up there cpe bov install and talk about how crappy that is? dont even get me started on end user issues with pnp standbacks! is that a reason to buy an AP? maybe i should go back and write an article for every problem anybodys ever had with a cpe product. i'll call it something like... "why pay more for results like these?" do you think thats "fair"? that this would be accurate? to use user install or the very rare occasional manufacturing defect to steer people away from cpe in general? installs sometimes cause a problem.... slight deviation can cause a problem. big fucking deal. if your going to target a CDI internal kit that has been recalled, and is no longer available, to justify why people should choose your option that costs $750 more out of pocket up front than the internals i also sell, then try to make a slight attempt to be less biased wehn you write an article. id like to see how many guys with working internals would trade their pumps plus 750 cash for a cpe pump right now. how about just finding one!!! bottom line is if the install goes fine, and you use a pump that has a proven track record than the internals work every bit as well as your cpe pump. and theres thousands of guys that make that statement true. for a guy like me who has dozens of satisfied customers of kmd internal fuel pumps.....your article was garbage and unethical. theres 3 kmd internal kits for every cpe pump out there working FLAWLESSLY on a mazda right now.... why grind an axe? its a marketing agenda.... it was a biased, horrendously flawed writeup.

I think it's funny that you say I'm being "biased" when I have factual evidence to back my point, and you have "dozens of satisfied customers" to prove yours. You feel comfortable making promises to customers based on "dozens" when there is conflicting evidence out there? Hmm.

So what changed from when you posted this exactly?

Originally Posted by palerider old kmd internals = 10% failure rate new kmd internals = 2% failure rate(yeah right we'll see) cdi internals = 50%, and cant be trusted long term now either autotech = anybody remember dec 2007 and my car, driver 311, etc.... we had like 8 straight fail. we havent bothered since. you just have to put them in and hope.

Which part am I making up again? Maybe you can teach me a thing or two about these pumps Randy?

[kore2000]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com Absolutely not. We guarantee the pump, and not the damage it may do if it fails. The same is true for the internals kits, minus the lifetime warranty.

Then that is not much of a guarantee now is it? I'd pay 600-700 dollars if it ensured my motor was covered in case of a pump failure, but if CPE isn't going to cover the motor then, in that aspect, they are really on par with the internals. The only difference really is that CPE assemblies and tests each pump it sells, which doesn't in itself guarantee a pump will never fail, just that it was working to spec when it was sent out. And for less than the price of 1 CPE pump, I can get two sets of internals and have the same performance.

Really, CP-E produces some great products, but jebus this CDFP is just overpriced.

[phailerider]

Originally Posted by www.cp-e.com I think it's funny that you say I'm being "biased" when I have factual evidence to back my point, and you have "dozens of satisfied customers" to prove yours. You feel comfortable making promises to customers based on "dozens" when there is conflicting evidence out there? Hmm. So what changed from when you posted this exactly? Which part am I making up again? Maybe you can teach me a thing or two about these pumps Randy?

i dont think its funny at all. those comments were made regarding initial installation... they had nothing to do with long term results. dont confuse the two.
i try to remain open, truthful, and unbiased. you throw my words, out of context, back in my face because of the course it take. being truthful and unbiased is apparently my punishment by those that would operate with a oppurtunist agenda.

this is an install issue, and in the case of the short lived, defunct cdis alone, a quality control issue. to paint it any other way is unethical, and more of your typical whining bullshit.

yes they fail. the most likely cause of the vast majority of these has been user install variances. there is a chance they can fail because a human being puts it togther before it gets tested on a car.

how about you guys focus on actually making your $1000 pumps available for those that prefer skipping the internal installation, instead of justifying why the thousands with working kmds made the wrong decision. and spreading bullshit propaganda about how much better your apr pump is when the reality is...

youre charging 100s to test it out on a machine, and im saving the consumer 100s to test it out on their car. its as simple as that. im going to take issue if you try to spin it any other way.