Help me dial in my 3076. :)

[dsmluck]

Ok so I finally finished the install with some help from jp@edgeautosports and got good information from various member on the forums.

First impressions. At 19 psi it screams compared to the K04. I took my dad for a ride and he was like "good god this is fast". As you will see from my logs though I am missing out a ton of power from my timing. I am running a self modified cobb stage 2+. Where should I shoot for my timing to be...14 degrees @ 6k?

Next I am running into an issue with running more than 19psi boost. I am using an MBC. When I target anything above 19 psi I start getting mini cuts and it gets worse with more boost. I am not sure if it is a tuning issue. Could it be spark blow out. My NGK 1 step colder plugs came gaped @ .032.

Lastly my AFR is wobbly as always. I keep thinking it has something to do with 50% E-85 but I really don't know. Commanded was 11.7.

Any help or advice would be great.

[IshiKage]

Hit up dustin for a dj tune, niggah. Def looks like you are making more than 300whp though

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by 240mazspd3 Hit up dustin for a dj tune, niggah. Def looks like you are making more than 300whp though

I did. Never heard back from him. I am sure he is really busy right now. I can wait till he is free but I still want to tweak the tune I have. It was just a safe flash for after the install. I want to pull some more power out of it. Already bumped the timing to 13 degrees. If I can get the AFRs to settle I will run a 12.0 to 12.2.

[sellers]

no

[xhymer]

You're comanding a perfect AFR, imo. E-85 should make it a bit leaner by itself though... Confusing haha. How long have you been using corn fuel??

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by xhymer You're comanding a perfect AFR, imo. E-85 should make it a bit leaner by itself though... Confusing haha. How long have you been using corn fuel??

About 6 months. When I would up the E85 percentage it would run leaner for a few runs and then settle and I would have to do a MAF Cal. I just remembered that the AFR wander could be due to one bolt on the DP being unable to tighten all the way.

So how the hell do you regap plugs that come pre-gapped? I am afraid I will snap the thick ass prong if I push on it too hard. Is there a tool designed for doing this?

[I Love Brownies]

so im running 16* of timing up top before i stopped making anymore power. the cut you are probably experiencing is load cut. make sure and up that so you dont get that anymore. also im targeting 12.0 afr's with no knock.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by I Love Brownies so im running 16* of timing up top before i stopped making anymore power. the cut you are probably experiencing is load cut. make sure and up that so you dont get that anymore. also im targeting 12.0 afr's with no knock.

Ahhh load cut. Didn't even check that. Gonna give that a go. Thanks man. By the way where did you leave your boost at? Can I realistically run 23 psi with meth and E85?

I cannot believe how low the timing was on the first log. Guess that's what happens when you use a modified K04 map. I jumped it up to 13 degrees. I think if that runs good I will creep it up to maybe 14.5 and leave it there as I don't have a dyno to fine tune it.

Hmmm. Just checked the Load Table: Abs Load limits and I am well under the limits. The cutting is very soft just like hesitation back to back to back. Fuel pressure is fine and no knock. Gonna re gap plugs and give it a go again.

[I Love Brownies]

if its real soft its pry spark blowout. try .28

oh and im running 24psi with no meth and just 2.5 gallons of e85

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by I Love Brownies if its real soft its pry spark blowout. try .28 oh and im running 24psi with no meth and just 2.5 gallons of e85

Yeap its soft as shit but come on as soon as the turbo spools and hits in rapid succession. Doesn't happen under 19 psi.

Gotta say that even with the limp wristed first tune and 19 psi this turbo is a monster compared to the K04. I went WOT on an on ramp I always hit with my K04 and my god I was going much faster by the end of it. Just nasty.

[rfinkle2]

My bet is on plug blowout. (.032 is a bit big for BT air) @BlueStreak had the same issue. He is also a great resource for BT tuning help, and extremely helpful.

He may be able to help with suggestions for your trl - x gear norm bat tables also.

[I Love Brownies]

yeah im 100% sure its blowout also. im still getting it here and there but meh until it really becomes a problem i will address it

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by dsmluck About 6 months. When I would up the E85 percentage it would run leaner for a few runs and then settle and I would have to do a MAF Cal. I just remembered that the AFR wander could be due to one bolt on the DP being unable to tighten all the way. So how the hell do you regap plugs that come pre-gapped? I am afraid I will snap the thick ass prong if I push on it too hard. Is there a tool designed for doing this?

Using common sense (which I know you to have) and a feeler gauge will get you there.

Tap the strap down on a hard surface, and if you go too far, use a needle nose (do not pry against the electrode, I guess that goes without saying).

Also, if you get a feeler without the exact size that you need the plugs gapped (e.g. .028, combine 2 feelers: .025 + .003 = .028).

Any auto parts store should have a feeler gauge.

NGK.com

[JacksonMS30]

I had the same problem with mine. The soft studdering feeling when the boost comes on. I pulled my Denso itv22's and found the gap had laxed from .028 to .031. I put in some new ones gapped at .024 and no more blowout. IMO you could get away with a gap of .026 but I don't know about any higher with a BT.

To change the gap on mine, I just tapped the prong with the handle of a flat head screwdriver. You just gotta tap it lightly and it will bend it slowly. You will need a gap tool to check the gap is accurate.

[BlueStreak]

Blowout seems to be the issue with the mini bumps you're experiencing. Regap your plugs down; my blowout disappeared after bringing the gap down to .026. I will, however, be experimenting with a boost a spark soon and will increase the gap back to .03 to see if there's a difference in power vs. .026 and no BAS.

With respect to the wandering AFRs, I'm assuming you calibrated your MAF after running the current combination of E85 and pump fuel, correct? If so, it shouldn't be wandering like it is.

I would start off by checking out your WGDC to see if you have a boost leak (high WGDC + richer than commanded AFRs = boost leak) but since you're running an MBC, we can't diagnose that route. At any rate, I would perform a boost leak check to make sure there aren't any leaks before re-scaling the MAF. Its generally good practice to perform a boost leak check after taking apart the intake tract as it'll save you from chasing PITA gremlins.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak Blowout seems to be the issue with the mini bumps you're experiencing. Regap your plugs down; my blowout disappeared after bringing the gap down to .026. I will, however, be experimenting with a boost a spark soon and will increase the gap back to .03 to see if there's a difference in power vs. .026 and no BAS. With respect to the wandering AFRs, I'm assuming you calibrated your MAF after running the current combination of E85 and pump fuel, correct? If so, it shouldn't be wandering like it is. I would start off by checking out your WGDC to see if you have a boost leak (high WGDC + richer than commanded AFRs = boost leak) but since you're running an MBC, we can't diagnose that route. At any rate, I would perform a boost leak check to make sure there aren't any leaks before re-scaling the MAF. Its generally good practice to perform a boost leak check after taking apart the intake tract as it'll save you from chasing PITA gremlins.

Yea I will do a leak test. Could the AFR also be caused by an exhaust leak at the DP?
I regapped the plugs to .027 and no more blowout at 22 psi. Fucker pulls like a monster now. I scared the shit out of a hapless TSX when he tried to beat me down on on ramp. Don't suppose he has seen many cars breaking traction @45 mph.

[I Love Brownies]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Yea I will do a leak test. Could the AFR also be caused by an exhaust leak at the DP? I regapped the plugs to .027 and no more blowout at 22 psi. Fucker pulls like a monster now. I scared the shit out of a hapless TSX when he tried to beat me down on on ramp. Don't suppose he has seen many cars breaking traction @45 mph.

now this sounds more like it

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 I had the same problem with mine. The soft studdering feeling when the boost comes on. I pulled my Denso itv22's and found the gap had laxed from .028 to .031. I put in some new ones gapped at .024 and no more blowout. IMO you could get away with a gap of .026 but I don't know about any higher with a BT. To change the gap on mine, I just tapped the prong with the handle of a flat head screwdriver. You just gotta tap it lightly and it will bend it slowly. You will need a gap tool to check the gap is accurate.

Hey I forgot to say congrats on your build!

Originally Posted by I Love Brownies now this sounds more like it

I am honestly shocked by the power. I recommend this swap to anyone looking for more power. If I can bumble my way through the install anyone can.

[I Love Brownies]

Originally Posted by dsmluck I am honestly shocked by the power. I recommend this swap to anyone looking for more power. If I can bumble my way through the install anyone can.

this is what i keep trying to tell everyone. yeah you might have a few snags here and there but its really not that hard

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by I Love Brownies this is what i keep trying to tell everyone. yeah you might have a few snags here and there but its really not that hard

I am a mechanical retard but there was always a work around or something stupid I missed when I hit an issue. My advice to anyone who has never done it is go slow make sure everything is tight and plan on a weekend for it just in case.

[dsmluck]

Ok here is a new log.

The good: Hitting nearly 360 g/s. No knock. 22psi. Better timing curve.

The bad: Fucking AFR wander with the same damn initial spike I saw on my K04 maps. The only reason I am not freaking out is because I have the AFR set relatively low and I am on E-85 and copious amounts of 60/40 meth. Popped a p0101 again. Said fuck it and bought a new Mass Airflow sensor because I gunked mine up with a shitty K&N a while back(yes tried to clean it). Same deal new day. My Maf Cal is +/- 8 so I will redo that tomorrow and check for boost leaks. It seemed to all go wrong once I got above 30% E-85. At 50% now. Any other ideas if the boost leak test come back negative?

Also my injector duty cycle is getting into the 90% range should I be concerned?




Oh and by the way I am not mad or frustrated I had a blast in the car just want to get the AFR situation figured out.

[dsmluck]

Damn just popped the p0101 again with the new Maf sensor. I really would like to run leaner but guess I gotta keep it rich for now. A boost leak wouldn't pop that code would it?

[BlueStreak]

I just noticed that you're spraying meth at a somewhat high concentration.

1) What nozzle are you running? What controller? MAP based I'm guessing.
2) Have you tried a datalog without meth using say, 20PSI and substantially less (safer) timing?

My initial thought here is that your meth system is causing the richer AFRs and gradually leans out because the effect of meth on AFRs is being reduced as airflow increases. This is normal. (BUT you're getting the CEL. Let's do some diagnostics.)

To verify, see question number 2.

EDIT: Let's have a look at your map as well.

Also, read this.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak I just noticed that you're spraying meth at a somewhat high concentration. 1) What nozzle are you running? What controller? MAP based I'm guessing. 2) Have you tried a datalog without meth using say, 20PSI and substantially less (safer) timing? My initial thought here is that your meth system is causing the richer AFRs and gradually leans out because the effect of meth on AFRs is being reduced as airflow increases. This is normal. (BUT you're getting the CEL. Let's do some diagnostics.) To verify, see question number 2. EDIT: Let's have a look at your map as well. Also, read this.

Didn't even consider the Meth. Fantastic. I will run a log later and see what the AFR does. i am running a D05 equivalent and the controller starts spraying at 10psi.

Huh. Seems Finkle is having the same issue after flashing. Sucks I wasted $200 on a new sensor...

[rfinkle2]

Originally Posted by dsmluck Didn't even consider the Meth. Fantastic. I will run a log later and see what the AFR does. i am running a D05 equivalent and the controller starts spraying at 10psi. Huh. Seems Finkle is having the same issue after flashing. Sucks I wasted $200 on a new sensor...

I just disabled it with the AP.. I wish I had seen this sooner.

Wolly and I have been using maps with the code disabled with no ill effects.

Again, sorry about not getting to see that sooner.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 I just disabled it with the AP.. I wish I had seen this sooner. Wolly and I have been using maps with the code disabled with no ill effects. Again, sorry about not getting to see that sooner.

Its not your fault. You have helped me out a bunch in the past. Anyway I was kind of scatterbrained about explaining what was going on with my car. I am going to disable the code and put up the "used" (100 miles lol) Maf sensor and revised K04 up for sale tonight and hopefully recoop the money.

[dsmluck]

That lean spike could be caused because I am still using the stock 2.5 bar map sensor. Can anyone chime and and explain to be how altitude effects the map sensor? Its what.... 22 psi at sea level. I was under the impression that due to the pressure drop I would be good until 24 psi due to my 2.X psi drop in atmospheric pressure from the high altitude or do I have it backwards?

[JacksonMS30]

It shouldn't matter about altitude when it comes to the pressure the MAP sensor sees. 22psi in your manifold is 22psi no matter what the atmospheric pressure is. Your turbo just has to work a bit harder to achieve it with the higher elevation.

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 It shouldn't matter about altitude when it comes to the pressure the MAP sensor sees. 22psi in your manifold is 22psi no matter what the atmospheric pressure is. Your turbo just has to work a bit harder to achieve it with the higher elevation.

So the end result is I need a 3 bar map sensor if I want more boost? What are your running?

[sellers]

you dont need a 3 bar map sensor to run higher boost if you're using a mbc...just a boost gauge

[BlueStreak]

- If you want more boost and are using a MBC, just crank the MBC and monitor boost with a boost gauge.
- If you want more boost and are using an EBC, you need an upgraded MAP sensor.

[rfinkle2]

Lex's gaurdian angel will eventually help the limited map sensor also.

[JacksonMS30]

With the MBC, you just have to raise the boost cut/load cut limits in atr and then watch your boost carefully as you raise it until you get it set (thats what I'm doing).

[BlueStreak]

Any boost cut levels in ATR above 23PSI on the stock MAP sensor won't do anything as the MAP sensor cannot see those values. Just a tidbit of info :-)

Load cut values still apply though.

[dsmluck]

I was under the impression that the fueling would go lean past 22 psi as the ECU wouldn't see boost and correct? Confused.

The AP still shows boost past 23 psi. Is that the correct boost or do I need a mechanical? My mechanical is a piece of shit and shakes past 18 psi.

If I need a mechanical I need to get it today before the 4 corners meet.

Originally Posted by rfinkle2 Lex's gaurdian angel will eventually help the limited map sensor also.

Yea that needs to come out ASAP.

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by dsmluck I was under the impression that the fueling would go lean past 22 psi as the ECU wouldn't see boost and correct? Confused. The AP still shows boost past 23 psi. Is that the correct boost or do I need a mechanical? My mechanical is a piece of shit and shakes past 18 psi.

Fueling is determined from mass airflow (g/s). You won't go lean unless your fueling cannot keep up.

Past approximately 23PSI, the AP will continue to read 23PSI even if manifold pressures are greater than that.

[JacksonMS30]

Is it 23psi exactly or will it only read 22.xx? I'm seeing a bit more than 23psi according to my manual boost gauge, but the ap shows 22.69 or something like that. I was just chalking it up to the guage not being as acurate at higher boost levels. I probably need to turn down the boost a little...

[dsmluck]

Originally Posted by BlueStreak Fueling is determined from mass airflow (g/s). You won't go lean unless your fueling cannot keep up. Past approximately 23PSI, the AP will continue to read 23PSI even if manifold pressures are greater than that.

Ok brain fart. I knew that I don't know why I thought it would go lean. Sorry for the wasted posts. Guess I need to get a mechanical ASAP locally.

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 Is it 23psi exactly or will it only read 22.xx? I'm seeing a bit more than 23psi according to my manual boost gauge, but the ap shows 22.69 or something like that. I was just chalking it up to the guage not being as acurate at higher boost levels. I probably need to turn down the boost a little...

I saw a max of 23.79 on the AP exactly.

Will an auto meter do the trick?

[BlueStreak]

Originally Posted by JacksonMS30 Is it 23psi exactly or will it only read 22.xx? I'm seeing a bit more than 23psi according to my manual boost gauge, but the ap shows 22.69 or something like that. I was just chalking it up to the guage not being as acurate at higher boost levels. I probably need to turn down the boost a little...

If you're on a MBC, try turning it up one more PSI. If the AP still reads 22.xx, that is the max your MAP sensor can read. Mine pegs at 22.xx as well.

Originally Posted by dsmluck Ok brain fart. I knew that I don't know why I thought it would go lean. Sorry for the wasted posts. Guess I need to get a mechanical ASAP locally.

No worries.

[JacksonMS30]

Ok then maybe my boost gauge is off a little bit... Once I get my leak worked out, I'll pay closer attention to the other details like that. For now, I'm not even getting into boost...